I can't speak for everyone but I have to admit that I don't know enough about his investigations at White Sands to ask an intelligent question about it.
Understandable, so maybe the following from the unpublished manuscript will help, (working title: ...and my dog sings Chopin) . This work is copywritten and not to be re-published without permission from Mr. Stanford and myself:
My questions are in
italics.
You mentioned the government may have already had limited contact with UFOs. Obviously you are not in possession of verifiable data supporting this conclusion but what do you surmise? You’re a person that has been involved in this search for truth, this endeavor toward understanding, for going on fifty years now . . . Who better to ask than someone with your experience what form of limited contact do you think has taken place?
The only contact I have any direct knowledge of is what we witnessed on the night of July 19th, 1978. I certainly won’t say there hasn’t been more—there very well may have been more. All I know is stories about underground bases in New Mexico and so forth, are not true because otherwise the government would not have been out there on top of Oscura Peak [located in White Sands, NM] using sequencing panels to communicate with these things doing symbolic logic maneuvers.
There were two red UFOs shaped almost identical to the Zamora object I had drawn in the Soccoro book.
[Soccoro Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry] Elongated ellipsoids that were glowing red on their surface but the red pulsated at a certain rate. Out beyond that surface some distance one could see a beautiful red corona that was not attached to the surface but appeared out some distance from the objects. The corona was absent for about forty degrees of arc in the direction of travel. It was as if there was a magnetic vent there or something. I don’t know why the corona wasn’t there, but that’s what we surmised at the time. The corona flashed at one rate while the surface of the object flashed at a different rate. When one of these objects suddenly made a right-angled turn---they made many with visual instantaneously—on two occasions, one that we remembered consciously. When the object made the turn it became an object of different appearance, like a sharp cut out glowing the color of seasoned elephant ivory instead of red with a corona and it became much larger with a flat light instead of the brilliant coronal light. It changed from a narrow ellipsoidal shape to, imagine a very fat ellipse like a fat chicken’s egg. It was a little more oblong than a true ellipse and quite wide when it was in this phase.
We only remembered seeing this happen once and talking about it. All of this was recorded on [audio] tape. Later when we played the tape we were shocked because we described this happening a second time yet our memories had no knowledge of it. You could hear us describing this [change of shape and color] while it was going on. We had an ambient recording to document every click of the camera, everything that happened and every reaction. It was a good thing we had the recording going on.
When the object went into this strange, huge, ivory phase, Bob shot a telephoto shot of it w/ a 350mm lens on his 35mm camera. He took a time exposure of this thing diving vertically and the crazy thing is . . . it’s so big with the telephoto, an ivory-white streak about a third of the film---all over [the print] are interlocking diamonds—dark lines that form diamond shapes within this white light [streak]. I don’t know how this could possibly be, it’s very bizarre! There was only time to take one exposure while it was diving and fortunately, Bob got it. There is some very strange phenomenon there [on the print]. All we could see was this big ivory-colored thing diving down . . .
But you shouldn’t have geometric shapes in a time-exposure.
You wouldn’t think so. Unless there is a phenomenon that is flashing and leaves an impulse for a moment, but you wouldn’t see it with the naked eye. It was recorded somehow on the film. It was a total shock, absolutely bizarre!
These objects were maneuvering in front of a ring of panels around the top of Oscura Peak that is one of the most secret places in White Sands. It is a very steep sharp mountain. It’s there just inside the northern border of White Sands. The objects would fly off to the northwest and they would instantly vanish and then instantly reappear near these panels. Sometimes one above the other some distance and they’d head right toward each other on a vertical line and just as they were about to appear to collide, both of them would be going in the same direction making a perfect right-angled turn instantly. Or they would appear to be heading toward each other like on a collision course and then suddenly one would be going backwards. They wouldn’t glide they’d just stop and then they’d be going in the same direction.
What are these panels that you’re describing on the mountain?
If you took a Fresnel lens, a lens kind of like the new ones on the traffic lights, they are highly directional and if you get off to one side the light dies out. There were huge panels emitting a strange yellow light. We got light spectra of them so they could be analyzed to see what kind of light it was, but they were gigantic panels. They must have been, I don’t know, at least 100 feet high and in a ring around the top of the [mountain].
When you looked straight at the panels, you could not tell they were being sequenced. But my wife noticed first and told us to look at them with our peripheral vision you could see they were sequencing. We shot at several different speeds and time exposures. What this proved there were gaps in the lighting sequence so fast you couldn’t see them.
How were they angled?
They were emitting the light horizontally. This all happened not long after the movie
Close Encounters came out. It reminded me of something in
Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Repeatedly for thirty-five minutes these objects would do these maneuvers in front of the panels, head off to the northwest and completely vanish and suddenly re-appear near the panels again in near collision or doing other maneuvers.
We got magnetometer recordings of these objects and we got light spectra which was very exotic. The type of light spectra that clearly indicates that the light had to have been emitted in the presence of an extremely strong electromagnetic field. Technically this is what’s called a single-line spectrum with line splitting--called the Stark Effect.
How far away were you from Oscura Peak when you observed this apparent interaction?
I’d have to look at a map. It’s been awhile. I can’t remember how far away we were. [about six –7 miles] We could clearly see the objects and the corona around the top.
What time of night was this?
Off the top of my head, it probably began just before midnight and went on until 12:30 or so.
Then a very bizarre thing happens. The recording is going and you hear everything we’re doing and I say to the my wife and the president of our organization, as the objects were headed off to the northwest again, “We better enjoy this. When they reappear at the panels this time and do their maneuvers, instead of going to the northwest again they are going to go over to the southeast and disappear over the horizon. And my wife said, “Yes, this is the end of it. That’s it.” Bob spoke up and said “Yup this is going to be it.” Or something like that. Now here’s the crazy thing! They didn’t question me, “where did you get that information?”
Where DID you get that information?
I just said it! And sure enough, that’s exactly what happened. We’d been watching them do the same thing for thirty-five minutes and this time they re-appeared, did their crazy maneuvers, but instead of moving off to the northwest, they headed off to the southeast and disappeared over the horizon exactly as I had said!
[The military] had been given orders to get intelligence by any means possible and I’m convinced we saw one of the first contacts. I figured that some star-crazed Air Force Col. who had seen Close Encounters decided to put out some panels and signal these guys. [chuckles] They did and apparently it worked. I don’t know how much intelligence they got out of those maneuvers or if there was some sort of signals flashed to the panels that we couldn’t see. Did we get a glimpse of this when this strange large ivory-colored thing appeared when the object made the maneuver? Were we not supposed to have seen that? Was the maneuver only supposed to be visible from the panel? Was there data being transmitted by the light coming out of [the craft and the panels]? It could have been modulated at a level we couldn’t see at all. It could have been video or anything else.
Do you think there may have been a connection between the [military’s] approach at eliciting contact at Oscura Peak and the fictional approach used in Close Encounters? The timing of your sighting and the film’s release is highly suggestive.
At the time I said it was like some star-crazed Air Force Colonel had saw Close Encounters and said “OK.” You see, what we had learned from the physical scientist at White Sands is what made us go out there. They had been plagued and had a directive to obtain information and intelligence on the objects by every means possible.
So you think he may have seen the movie and decided that was a good idea?
I think he saw the movie and said “hey we’re going to build some panels on top of this peak!
Life imitating art! [chuckles]
That’s right! That’s exactly correct. I believe that’s what really happened. They really were communicating with the panels with what looked to us as symbolic, logic maneuvers. There were two times when the two objects turned completely different in appearance and we thought maybe those objects were perhaps sequencing something that could be read by instruments on the peak. The frequency of transmission and light modulation, for example, may have been so fast you couldn’t see it with the eye. We do this with fiber optics all the time at incredible speeds. There could have been data exchanged on this bright white panel that we may have accidentally seen a couple of times. How this panel was generated, I don’t know. I have no comprehension how that worked, or if that is what it really was. That’s speculation.
That’s a very interesting story. Have you heard of any other attempts by the government to do this?
No. One constantly hears rumors, but no, that was the only one. We have photographs and we have film.
Do you think it’s fair to say the government may know a little bit more than we do and, as a result, they’re probably more confused than we are?
I think they are very confused. They are afraid because they don’t know. I think they’ve had some limited contact but I don’t believe they have underground bases with aliens. I don’t believe that for a minute, but I do believe they’ve had limited contact like what we stumbled on in the New Mexico desert on the night of July 19th, 1978.
I think the government realizes that they are not in control of the situation and I think they realize there are probably several groups of possible extraterrestrials, or whatever is bringing these craft into our atmosphere. And since we don’t have control, we can’t say we have any control over them. Big brother doesn’t want to admit there’s a bigger brother—even if he’s not a brother. It’s a frightening thing to the people in power and authority.
the psychic component to the phenomenon, successful skywatching techniques, hard data monitoring, etc
