2012

[bsvalley]

ok, this is going to seem like a very stupid question to almost everyone here I'm sure
but I have to ask the stupid questions. (it's my nature and also that way some one else won't have to).

Ok, so if the mayan Calendar resets itself in 2012. Does that mean that the night sky will then be what they saw when they started the calendar?

I am just curious if anyone knows the answer to that,
Or will it never be the same? or even close?:question:

 

[Kevin Daly]

I was interested to see if we have any astronomers here who could answer that one, but nobody has yet so I decided to do some googling, and Wikipedia-ing, and more googling to cross-check the Wikipedia results (always a good idea).

I'm pretty sure after all that that the answer is "no".

One reason would be the effect of the Earth wobbling on its axis, which is responsible for such things as ending up with a different Pole star over time, and even within recorded history constellations that were visible to the ancient Greeks having moved below the equator (such as the Southern Cross that we have on our flag here...OK that might be the only one for all I know). Anyway, the important thing is that the cycle for this wobble is thought to be about 25,765 years...the current creation in the system used by the Maya is supposed to have started in 3114 BC, which is nowhere near enough time for the Earth to wobble through a full cycle

Things are further complicated by the rotation of the Galaxy and the fact that stars follow their own complicated paths within it, which suggests something horrendously complex (Where ARE those astronomers when you need them), but which I assume (cheerfully on the basis of no actual knowledge on my part whatsoever) wouldn't be repeating within a short (human culture-scale) timeframe.

If you add to that the fact that stars are born and die and change their appearance in between (if you wait long enough...), I don't think the sky's ever going to look exactly the same as it did when the they started their calendar.

It's an interesting question though. It'd be great to hear from someone who actually really honest-to-goodness knows.

For myself, my only concern about the year 2012 is that I'll be 51, which seems unfair.

 

[David Biedny]

You know what will happen in 2012?

The same thing that happened in 2000, the year of the huge Y2K scare.

Nothing.

Carry on...

dB

 

[Gareth]

You know what will happen in 2012?

The same thing that happened in 2000, the year of the huge Y2K scare.

Nothing.

Carry on...

dB

While I agree about the 'nothing will happen' analysis, Ive always thought that the Y2k analogy was inappropriate. Completely different scenarios and sources of information.

Y2k was scaremongering (likely) from US corporations. 2012 has more than one thing going for it and is based on old texts.

 

[Mothra]

You know what will happen in 2012?

The same thing that happened in 2000, the year of the huge Y2K scare.

Nothing.

Y2k was scaremongering (likely) from US corporations.

Stuff did happen, just boring stuff. No planes falling from the skies, No meltdowns. All of the embedded stuff was pre 1980 so it was safe. However billions of lines of codes were rewritten. The company I worked for had to redo its entire database and get it out and to train thousands of distributors. Thousands of man hours were spent installing new BIOS and BIOS overlay files or replacing our distributors systems all together. When I was working for MCI in AZ in 97 we were already working on solutions for this issue. The issue was real. However the Art Bell crowd got their meathooks into it and of course started telling everyone the end was near and to find a cave.

2012 has more than one thing going for it and is based on old texts

What makes 2012 any different than any other failed prophecy? The book of revelations is old text too. Its also possible that maybe the mayans just thought "Hey this is far enough into the future lets stop here". And now were running around like its 1695 saying the sky is falling. There is nothing to this. Humans made the calendars, dates and years are what we make them. Our calendar system isn't embedded with nature or intune with the stars. So old guys just came up with an ingenius why to let you know when to get up in the morning.

By the way Roland Emmerich (ID4, Stargate) Is destroying the earth again with a new disaster movie called 2012. It looks epic. The teaser is online.

 

[Kevin Daly]

You know what will happen in 2012?

The same thing that happened in 2000, the year of the huge Y2K scare.

Nothing.

Carry on...

dB

** Horror At The Thought That Anybody Thinks I Think Anything Will Happen In 2012 **

Just to clear up any confusion: I think the 2012 thing is New Age bullshit. But I think the question about the sky with respect to the beginning of their calendar is interesting because it's one of those "yeah, how does that stuff work?" questions that tends to gnaw away at the back of my mind once I've heard it.
But as for the prophecy thing: not only is there no evidence the Maya or others thought the world in a real sense was going to end in 2012, but even if they did, who cares? The ancient Maya were only one human culture like all the rest, and not magical beings with mysterious knowledge or the ability to predict the future. As I've said elsewhere on this subject, there's no more reason to credit any belief they may have had about future events than there is to credit their belief in the necessity of human sacrifice. Now put that knife down...

As for Y2K: A lot of morons made fools of themselves with their talk of stocking up on food and guns and running for the hills and so on (the truth is these people look forward to The End Of Civilisation As We Know It so they can start wearing funny clothes and playing Mad Max). The plot device that in films the failure of The Big Godlike Computer is often for no logical reason made the cause of explosions and earthquakes (I think they confuse it with the One Ring) didn't help either.
That said, the fact that nothing happened was the result of a lot of hard work. While the problem was greatly overhyped, the people who claim it was all a scam are misinformed. Here's one example from my own personal experience of The Joy Of Debugging: even before 2000, a banking package I had the misfortune to work with started rejecting some loan renewals because the funding deposits for those loans used accounts opened before 1940...the software used 40 as a pivot date, so an account opened in 1940 (for example) was assumed to have been opened in 2040, and this value was rejected as being a future date.
So yeah, there was stuff to do.

 

[bsvalley]

You know what will happen in 2012?

The same thing that happened in 2000, the year of the huge Y2K scare.

Nothing.

Carry on...

dB

that wasn't the question, I wasn't even thinking about that crap when I asked it. Just wondering about the view. Thanks Kevin D. for the food for thought. I am not an astronomer But I do wonder about things when I look up.

 

[skunkape]

Precession of the Equinoxes - Crystalinks

Actually, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not an expert on the Mayan calendar. If it started 25,700 years ago, then maybe we are approaching a 'reset' point as far as how the stars and Earth are oriented. I'll do some reading on the subject. I think astrology is mostly a load of crap, in it's current misunderstood form, but I'm sure it is going to be a very interesting period of history to be alive in regardless of the Mayan calendar.

 

[Gareth]

What makes 2012 any different than any other failed prophecy?

Yeah Im not saying 2012 has more going for it than other prophecies. Just more than the Y2K nonsense (and not based any prophecy AFAIK).

 

[Mothra]

Just more than the Y2K nonsense

Please see the previous posts

 

[Drew UK]

2012 - Whoever wrote that prophecy has a good chance of seeing some fruition. Glad I don't work for Ladbrookes.

There are some very important locuses on this date that could mean break or free for mankind.

Here we are facing slidepole no#1:
The economic crisis - I have already gone into detail about this before and wont bore or panic you any more ....
Then we have slidepole no#2:
The power inversion syndrome - flip China Rep. onto USA , again related to no#1 but a separate arena - winnners and loosers? -
The middle eastern crisis no#3: - Iran is still there, nuclear proliferation. Al Quaeda - defeat of israel for what cost?......
The climatic change no#4: Global warming- guess what Al Gore was wrong .. very wrong.. the latest scientific models suggest that Al Gore has UNDERESTIMATED the effects of what is happening in the world - ice caps are melting beyond established models - flooding, heatwaves, desertification, drought, ..disaster, all have potential serious political implications.... and do you think in 2012 we can solve this - think human population growth... exponential? 6 billion now, how do we cope in the future? Especially when you have india and china living like consumer driven americans? ....
And what are we doing about it? We have BP, Exxon pretending there going to wave a magic wand and solve the energy crisis ... BULLSHIT...
We want to save the earth, there only marketing there brand ... blah blah blah blah blah...
We are having a party folks- put in all your efficient light bulbs, solar panels and windmills .. guess what? The developing countries have just swallowed that saving in the last week.....
We are entering a period of challenge in human history never so important, so apocalyptic and we still prefer to ignore it -why?.
Ostriches, If 2012 doesn't make you focus what will?
We have 6 billion minds out there - lets get thinking!!

 

[Gareth]

Please see the previous posts

Why? I get everything.

All Im saying is 2012 has more going for it than Y2K did. Do I believe something will happen in 2012? No.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

How would ancient civilizations see the distant future, when even the best modern day "psychics" rarely see the near future?

You don't need some ancient spew to see we can kill ourselves off. 2012 is the new flavor of the decade.

The track record of doomsayers is pitiful. If the world ends in 2012, I will die satisfied it's a coincidence not some ancient psychic wisdom by a people who sacrificed teenagers to the volcano god.

 

[Mothra]

We have 6 billion minds out there - lets get thinking!!

Who are all out for themselves.

All Im saying is 2012 has more going for it than Y2K did. Do I believe something will happen in 2012? No.

LOL Gareth the Y2K nonsense as you put it, was real. 2012 is just a date on a calendar. Thats it. We made it up. They probably stopped on that date because they ran out of room or something. Y2K really happened and effected alot of people.

 

[skunkape]

How would ancient civilizations see the distant future, when even the best modern day "psychics" rarely see the near future?

I can barely remember a week ago, but I can still predict that most who claim to be psychics are parasitic jerk wads. Ancient civilizations, if they could see how we live, would probably think we were as cool as I thought Buck Rogers in the 25'th century was from a 1980's child's perspective. "Wow...you just push a lever and your crap magickly disappears?"

 

[Gareth]

LOL Gareth the Y2K nonsense as you put it, was real. 2012 is just a date on a calendar. Thats it. We made it up. They probably stopped on that date because they ran out of room or something. Y2K really happened and effected alot of people.

I honestly do understand your point of view. But IMO the opposite is true. Y2k was the perpetuation of a fear by the media. While based on something 'real' the threat of apocalypse was not.

As far as 2012 there is at least 3 sources that I know of that have independently come to that date as some sort of moment of change in time. For me, as far as the potential for world-ending stuff, 2012 is more credible than Y2K.

 

[Mothra]

I honestly do understand your point of view. But IMO the opposite is true. Y2k was the perpetuation of a fear by the media. While based on something 'real' the threat of apocalypse was not.

As far as 2012 there is at least 3 sources that I know of that have independently come to that date as some sort of moment of change in time. For me, as far as the potential for world-ending stuff, 2012 is more credible than Y2K.

Gotcha, End of the World potential. After 17 posts we clear it up.

 

[Gareth]

Sorry, maybe I didnt make that clear. While the Y2K problem itself was absolutely real, the risk associated with it was not.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I predict doomsday people will be wrong everytime but maybe right once. In the end, they suck. Why even consider the crap? Number fetish? OOo, we need a year we need a year. Why? To get on Art Bell? You have better things to do. If I can't predict when I am going to get laid by going out to a bar, primitives cannot predict the end of the world. They have no super powers. God didn't only speak with them. ETs? I think ets would spend their time telling people closer to the present than way back. Yes, I'm sure you can find an abductee that says the end of the world comes in 2012. If they have evidence they have actually contacted ets, please share.