3 Skeptical Points

[Lavarat]

1. If UFO's are being covered up, than what about countries other than the U.S. I find it impossible for every country in the world to agree as one to cover up crashed UFOS and evidence. Most countrys cannot agree on the simplest things, and it seems impossible that everycountry would practice black budgets and secret UFO data.

2. I truly believe a majority of UFO sightings are deep secret government projects and or aircraft, before the stealth bomber was rolled out, everyone thought they were seeing aliens.

3. With abductions and some sightings I notice many occur when the person is lying down to bed, or resting at night, and of course they are never ever sleeping, I believe alot of them fall asleep wake up and think time is missing and the alien in their dream came and abducted them, now daytime roadside abductions I find compelling more than "I had a dream, but I was abducted" claims.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

The governments of most countries in the world are reluctant to give any info re: UFO'S.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Extremely, very interesting!

 

[Astroboy]

1. If UFO's are being covered up, than what about countries other than the U.S. I find it impossible for every country in the world to agree as one to cover up crashed UFOS and evidence. Most countrys cannot agree on the simplest things, and it seems impossible that everycountry would practice black budgets and secret UFO data.

Governments do not need to cooperate to keep things secret. Keeping secrets is a self-motivated activity that serves the interest of each individual country for varies reasons.

Most governments would be motivated to keep things quiet from the general public to prevent general panic. This is especially true of things that they cannot explain or do anything about. One of the greatest fears of any government is losing control of the population.

Most government confronted with a potential enemy with superior technology would do everything it can to acquire it, figure out how it works, and try to duplicate it in order to defend themselves.

In the meantime they'll spend a lot of time analyzing what the threat level is. Who are they? Where are they from? What are their capabilities? How many groups are we dealing with? Can we form alliances if necessary? How do we fight them? What kind of threat does going public pose to our government systems, economic systems, or religious systems?

Most governments seek to gain military or technical advantages over their competitors or enemies even in peace time. Finding a UFO would present a golden opportunity for any government to leap frog everyone else in terms of technology and weapons. There is little advantage in sharing this knowledge and every advantage to keep it for yourself or your closest allies. If technology can be gleaned from UFOs this can help not just your military but also your domestic industries.

As far as smaller independent countries who may happen to capture a UFOs... Smaller countries generally would not have the technical or research capabilities to study UFOs let alone duplicate them. In order to keep them quiet, they can be threatened, bribed, or cut some kind of deal such as limited sharing of research.

Given all this there is little motivation to come clean or share with everyone what you know, ever.

2. I truly believe a majority of UFO sightings are deep secret government projects and or aircraft, before the stealth bomber was rolled out, everyone thought they were seeing aliens.

Perhaps. The most advanced aircrafts that we see today are already decades old in terms of technology. Some have been in operational for more than a decade before official acknowledgement. The SR71 was designed in the late 50s and flown first in earlier models in the early 60s. It still holds the official world speed record. Does anyone believe this is still the fastest plane ever made? Has technology stood still for 50 years?

However, UFO sighting have been around long before the first airplane flew. There are a few famous medieval wood carvings and paintings of what can only be described as UFOs. There are many Biblical accounts that sound like UFO experiences.

3. With abductions and some sightings I notice many occur when the person is lying down to bed, or resting at night, and of course they are never ever sleeping, I believe alot of them fall asleep wake up and think time is missing and the alien in their dream came and abducted them, now daytime roadside abductions I find compelling more than "I had a dream, but I was abducted" claims.

There certainly are many cases that may be attributed to sleep paralysis. In fact, some experiences can be artificially induced with weak magnetic fields around the brain. This can also be done during loss of oxygen to the brain.

But this doesn't explain all the cases including the night time cases where subjects are awake such as Barney and Betty Hill or other famous cases involving simultaneous abduction of multiple witnesses.

 

[Lavarat]

Really good thoughts Astroboy, enjoyed it!!!!

 

[Astroboy]

Really good thoughts Astroboy, enjoyed it!!!!

Thanks, Lavarat. Those were good questions.

Believers of anything should always try to step out their shoes and look from the other side in order to do some critical thinking. And we must be willing to change our minds when faced with either irrefutable facts or ideas that seem the most credible. I would never say,"It's swamp gas."

I too often see people swallow the most outlandish ideas without questioning the source or looking at things without a preconceived conclusion. I attribute this to my favorite DB term, "Intellectual Laziness".

 

[Lavarat]

Really good thoughts Astroboy, enjoyed it!!!!

Thanks, Lavarat. Those were good questions.

Believers of anything should always try to step out their shoes and look from the other side in order to do some critical thinking. And we must be willing to change our minds when faced with either irrefutable facts or ideas that seem the most credible.

I too often see people swallow the most outlandish ideas without questioning the source or looking at things without a preconceived conclusion. I attribute this to my favorite DB term, "Intellectual Laziness".

Well I believe that maybe there is an MJ12 in exsistance, but the MJ12 documents in my opinion were falsely made, intentionally, so that such a small handfull of people know the whole truth than I guess all governments on earth are not keeping the same secret, since possibly most dont know.

 

[Astroboy]

Well I believe that maybe there is an MJ12 in exsistance, but the MJ12 documents in my opinion were falsely made, intentionally, so that such a small handfull of people know the whole truth than I guess all governments on earth are not keeping the same secret, since possibly most dont know.

The MJ12 documents have had some credibility issue for certain.

Perhaps there is an organization but not necessarily named MJ12.

Here are some of my musings of why this organization exists and what it does:

Someone needs to control the information. It needs to be compartmentalized and disseminated to as few people as possible. The few people at the top would be the only people that know "everything." Even if there are leaks most people would only have a limited amount of knowledge (Corso). This ensures that they can be easily discredited by planting just a few pieces of false information.

You need an entity that is perpetual. You can't let the leadership be concerned about elections or polls. This is why even the president may not know. He may change every 4 years. You'll need a lot of money to fund your activities so you have to hide it within the defense industry and pseudo civilian contractors.

The entity must be concerned more about survival of the human race than minor wars or any activity that doesn't involve our demise as a species. For this reason they do not get involved in any activity that may expose them or their technology. They will use their technology in a largely passive way such as tracking the movement of Aliens and monitoring their activities.

The entities must ensure the survival of the human race by any means possible. This can be accomplished by reverse engineering UFOs for building of ARVs or weapons. If this means aggressive action such as the intentional downing of a UFO then that is OK.

They may want to get into alliances with Aliens or whoever it is so we have some kind of defense pact or nonaggression pact. They will distrust all Aliens but continue to work with them until we can build a sufficient defense on our own or be in a better position to negotiate treaty terms.

The organization may be the negotiating force since there is no planetary government. The entity itself would mostly represent just the largest and most powerful nations or alliance of countries. A weaker force, such as us, will generally have to give up something important in exchange for technology or defense promises. This may involve the reluctance allowance of occasion abduction and experimentation of humans. This may mean giving us limited technology but not anything that can threaten Aliens. This may mean we are quarrantined until certain conditions are meant such as we don't pose a threat to our galactic neighbors.

Their other main activity would be to gather intelligence about who they are dealing with. This will take a long time because of the complexity of interstellar politics.

Elements within the organization dominated by the US will try to take advantage of technology being gleaned by reverse engineering or direct cooperation with aliens by seeding their own nation with technology that will boost their military and commercial industries. In or to keep things secret this process must seems natural.

The entity will be reluctant to reveal the truth behind UFOs for many reasons. They fear sudden and massive change that would throw away all existing systems of government, economies, and religions. They realize that primitive societies aways want to emulate other societies that possess superior technologies.

They possess knowledge of UFO involvement throughout our history and find things about the nature of the Universe that shake the foundations of everything they knew in science.

The organizations original founding principles would have been corrupted or twisted because of greed and power and they would have forgotten their original purpose.

They will find it more difficult to reveal the truth over time because of the murders, abductions, and other crimes they've had to commit in order to stay in power and keep the secret.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

1. If UFO's are being covered up, than what about countries other than the U.S. I find it impossible for every country in the world to agree as one to cover up crashed UFOS and evidence. Most countrys cannot agree on the simplest things, and it seems impossible that everycountry would practice black budgets and secret UFO data.

Those with access to UFO technology and knowledge probably find it easy to coerce foreign nations into silence. They can simply make stuff up to scare the foreign countries into complicity. They can also bribe these countries, threaten them, or simply send in a secret task force, Operation Damage Control, to steal all recovered technology, kill those who know about it, and then destroy their documents. See the last 60 years of CIA activity for any number of secret coups throughout the world which could have been motivated by UFO related secrecy.

Another aspect to consider is the level of alien involvement, if any, in maintaing secrecy. Could it be that the UFOnauts themselves don't want the truth out there? If so, we should assume that their superior abilities would allow them to keep all of the nations silent.

Also, it may be likely that many nations simply do not know about UFOs.

Still, there are some countries which do not have the same attitude towards UFOs as the US gov't. France, Belgium, and Mexico come to mind. They don't openly admit to UFO reality and ET presence, but often they will admit that UFOs are real and damned mysterious. That's just one step below disclosure.

2. I truly believe a majority of UFO sightings are deep secret government projects and or aircraft, before the stealth bomber was rolled out, everyone thought they were seeing aliens.

Clearly some are not related to secret technology. Remember, this phenomenon has been going on since we had only prop planes. The 1986 Japan Airlines incident most certainly was not related to any secret military craft. We simply do not have the technology to allow an object twice the size of an aircraft carrier to fly circles around a 757.

 

[Ron Collins]

2. I truly believe a majority of UFO sightings are deep secret government projects and or aircraft, before the stealth bomber was rolled out, everyone thought they were seeing aliens.

I'm not so sure. The "government" would only fund the program if they were trying to develop something. A weapon is the first thought although there are others. But, lets just say that it is a weapon they are intrested in developing. Where is the technology on the battlefield?

The flight characteristics associated with these type of aircraft have not been reported by soldiers or the media on either side of the most recent conflicts in Afgahnistan or Iraq. These flight characteristics would be amazing for close air support operations. Ground units could easily benefit from support from an object that can zip in at many mach, stop on a dime, and provide support while using superior maneuvering to avoid ground to air weapons.

These craft are also seen hovering only feet above the ground moving along at a good clip and can shoot straigt up in the blink of an eye. Imagine how many lives can be saved by patroling in a craft that could escape from IED attakcs.

However, this doesn't happen. The military hasnt released these super secret weapons onto the battlefield even though they have supposedly been develping them for decades.

Yes, the F117 and the SR-71 were kept secret for a long time. But they were conventional aircraft. They are merely planes. they use the same pricipals of flight a Cesna uses. The craft associated with the majority of the UFO phenomenon are not more advanced Piper Cubs.

I am unaware of any weapons system that was under development for 30+ years that has not been deployed. If anyoine else is, polease let me know. I think that all evidence is to the contrary. These are not our craft.

 

[Astroboy]

2. I truly believe a majority of UFO sightings are deep secret government projects and or aircraft, before the stealth bomber was rolled out, everyone thought they were seeing aliens.

Lavarat,

You make a great point here. But even if the large majority of UFO sightings are government projects, which is very probable, this also means that there is a minority of examples which are not government projects. I believe these are the ones we are interested in.

I remember reading about a secret government project in Aviation Weekly involving lighter than air vehicles that were gigantic in size. They were triangular configurations painted black but used electroptical camouflage. From what I remember these triangles were larger than football field in size. In essence they were flat triangularly shaped balloons with visual and radar stealth. This would make an ideal reconnaissance aircraft. It would have long loiter capability, audio stealth, visual stealth, radar stealth, and great range if you add internal high efficiency engines.

If this story is accurate this may explain many black triangle UFOs. However, it does not explain some of the sightings of black triangles that silently zoom off at incredible speeds.

 

[DFWMike]

Even if the objects sighted are government secret ops, that in itself would be a sensational story seeing the objects consistently display fantastic feats of propulsion and maneuverability. The stories of high strangeness from David Biedney and Jeff Ritzman, just to begin with, tend to demonstrate there is something more going on. People such as Jeff, his girlfriend, whitley streiber before he decided he was the second coming, on and on. These guys all had experiences while they were awake, of course that is all heresay, go back to the archives and listen to Jeff Ritzman's first interview, very interesting and compelling. In addition check out "out of the blue" on youtube.

Just to add, I'm certainly skeptical myself, just pointing out there are many compelling stories to just disregard them. I'll never be certain they exist until I see a ufo in full clarity or have the misfortune of meeting an entity up close, whoever, or wherever they come from. But after years of research I can say for certain that something strange is going on, I don't believe it is all the government, however, it's possible they know something about it.