A Fascinating take on Martin/Zimmerman

[Decker]

This is a "thinking mans" take on the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident. You might not like it but it is by all accounts ... factual.

Decker

 

[Muadib]

Thinking man's report my arse, this guy is so clueless that it's laughable, let's look at a few of his easily debunked points here:

"Combining Arizona Watermelon Iced Tea, Skittles and OTC Cough Syrup will get you a "codeine based drink."

Is this guy even serious? Someone needs to tell him that it's impossible to buy Codeine over the counter in the United States because it's a scheduled drug, it requires a prescription. Over the counter cough syrup like the one pictured in the video doesn't contain Codeine and isn't used when making what is commonly referred to as "Purple Drink" or "Lean" Obviously, he didn't bother to research this point, because if he did, he would've found out that he hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about. The rest of his information is probably just as shoddily researched.

Also the supposed liver damage caused by "Lean" could be caused by a number of different factors, including something as benign as taking too much Tylenol over an extended period of time, this is hardly conclusive information being presented here, it's nothing but speculation and nasty speculation at that.

And furthermore, as someone who knows the effects of opiates and who has taken real "lean" in the past, the side effects are hardly ones of aggression and paranoia, opiates relax and make people passive, they don't turn you into a raging psychopath, they aren't bath salts, they're prescribed to people every day for a myriad of medical reasons, go ask an MD what he thinks of large doses of opiates making someone aggressive and then hold on to your hat as you are laughed out of his office. They use opiates to sedate surgery patients ffs, sedation does not equal aggression.

Let's also not forget that Trayvon's toxicology report from the autopsy was brought up in court and conclusively proves that he was not under the influence of "Lean" and didn't even have Codeine, or any other opiate for that matter, in his system. He had 1.5 nanograms of THC in his system, which isn't a lot and he likely wasn't under the influence at the time of the incident.

Judge rules Trayvon Martin's toxicology report will be allowed into evidence | News - Home

I'd also like to point out that this guy completely glosses over the medications that George Zimmerman was taking at the time of the incident: Temazepam and Adderal, two medications which actually are known to cause aggression and mood swings, one of which is an amphetamine based drug (y'know like crystal meth?), so who was more likely to be behaving aggressively due to drug use?

The prescription drugs George Zimmerman was taking when he killed Trayvon Martin - Miami healthy living | Examiner.com

That being said, I just want to clarify that I don't believe this case to be as black and white as the media has presented it, I can agree with this guy on that much. I think George and Trayvon were both to blame for what happened, but I also think that shooting someone multiple times because he's punching you in the face is a little bit extreme. Just my two cents, but I needed to point out that the last thing this video can be called is factual, it's biased and full of inaccuracies and nasty speculation.

 

[Tyger]

Well said, Muadib.

The final picture also says it all - what this is really about for this man, anyway. Obama. A black man is the POTUS.

It also deflects from the 'Stand Your Ground' Law. The question Obama asked is vibrating in the air: if Trayvon was older and had a gun, and used it to kill Zimmerman to defend himself, would that be okay?

 

[Decker]

Thinking man's report my arse, this guy is so clueless that it's laughable, let's look at a few of his easily debunked points here:
"Combining Arizona Watermelon Iced Tea, Skittles and OTC Cough Syrup will get you a "codeine based drink."
Is this guy even serious? Someone needs to tell him that it's impossible to buy Codeine over the counter in the United States because it's a scheduled drug, it requires a prescription. Over the counter cough syrup like the one pictured in the video doesn't contain Codeine and isn't used when making what is commonly referred to as "Purple Drink" or "Lean" Obviously, he didn't bother to research this point, because if he did, he would've found out that he hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about. The rest of his information is probably just as shoddily researched.
I'd also like to point out that this guy completely glosses over the medications that George Zimmerman was taking at the time of the incident: Temazepam and Adderal, two medications which actually are known to cause aggression and mood swings, one of which is an amphetamine based drug (y'know like crystal meth?), so who was more likely to be behaving aggressively due to drug use?

The prescription drugs George Zimmerman was taking when he killed Trayvon Martin - Miami healthy living | Examiner.com

That being said, I just want to clarify that I don't believe this case to be as black and white as the media has presented it, I can agree with this guy on that much. I think George and Trayvon were both to blame for what happened, but I also think that shooting someone multiple times because he's punching you in the face is a little bit extreme. Just my two cents, but I needed to point out that the last thing this video can be called is factual, it's biased and full of inaccuracies and nasty speculation.

First up, I happen to know this guy Bill Whittle. Conservative, you bet but he gets his facts down tight. I have known him for about 6 or 7 years and he does not make the mistakes you allude to. And, I as a detective, worked narcotics. I know of all kinds of things kids have done and do to get high. I can recall back when I was a kid, kids mixing aspirin and coke to get high. Sounds stupid today but I remember it. Zimmerman fired one shot, the witness stated Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. This has had a political stink since it broke on the news. So, you are entitled to think what you may but I ain't buying what you are selling.

Decker

 

[Decker]

The final picture also says it all - what this is really about for this man, anyway. Obama. A black man is the POTUS.
It also deflects from the 'Stand Your Ground' Law. The question Obama asked is vibrating in the air: if Trayvon was older and had a gun, and used it to kill Zimmerman to defend himself, would that be okay?

So, you think this is because Obama is black? Obama is not black, Obama is as much white as he is black. Read my last reply .. I know this guy. What he is talking about is Obama's hidden past. And I believe it is hidden for a reason. Where is Obama's college transcripts? (And I am not a birther but ..) why has it been proven that Obama's birth cert. has been altered? What about his social sec. number assigned to someone else? Why hasn't the national press looked into that? Why hasn't the national press reported on a young Georgia mother out walking her 13 month old baby who was robbed by a couple of black teenagers and when they didn't get enough money, shoot and kill the 13 month old kid? Why didn't they report on Trayvon's school hiding the fact that he was a trouble maker at school and stolen property and burglary tools were found in his locker?

This needs a lot more investigation by the press and FBI but it won't get it. Too many hustlers are out stirring up shit to fit their agenda and no one gives a good damn about what really happened.

 

[Muadib]

First up, I happen to know this guy Bill Whittle. Conservative, you bet but he gets his facts down tight. I have known him for about 6 or 7 years and he does not make the mistakes you allude to. And, I as a detective, worked narcotics. I know of all kinds of things kids have done and do to get high. I can recall back when I was a kid, kids mixing aspirin and coke to get high. Sounds stupid today but I remember it. Zimmerman fired one shot, the witness stated Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. This has had a political stink since it broke on the news. So, you are entitled to think what you may but I ain't buying what you are selling.

Decker

You may have been in Narcotics, but I was, at one point in the distant past, a drug addict, addicted to opiates in particularly, so I know what I'm talking about here Don and your buddy has made the exact mistakes that I've pointed out, do the research yourself and find out instead of relying on the fact that you think you "know" someone, as if that makes their opinion infallible. I know a lot of people, guess what, they're frequently wrong, just like any other human being. Mixing aspirin and coke would be pointless btw, there are no synergistic effects when aspirin and cocaine are combined, so if you knew kids who were doing that it's because they were stupid, not because it actually got them higher than just taking coke by itself, just like taking skittles, watermelon iced tea and cough syrup does not make codeine or anything except some flavored OTC cough syrup. Again, basic chemistry tells us that mixing "OTC Robitussin Cough Syrup, Skittles, and Arizona Watermelon Iced Tea" does not create Codeine, which is a product of methylated morphine, which means no morphine, no way to get codeine, you can say whatever you want but you cannot get around this simple fact. I don't care how you slice it or who you "know" the toxicology report does not lie. Tell me as a police officer, if someone took a swing at you, whether they connected or not, does that give you the right to shoot them? Somehow, I think you know better.

One last thing, I'm not selling anything, I'm giving you the facts so I'm glad you're not buying, go out and research for yourself exactly what this guy is talking about and you'll see that I'm correct. Save the appeals to authority though, they're meaningless. I've admitted that the media are full of it when it comes to this case, if that's your point you'll get no argument from me but your buddy in the video has his "facts" seriously mixed up...

 

[Tyger]

A lot of issues here. Much of it not relevant to the 'Stand Your Ground' Law. Treyvon would be alive if Zimmerman had not pursued him. As suggested: where does it end? If Treyvon were older and had a gun, would it have been okay for him to shoot Zimmerman under the 'Stand Your Ground' Law? Is there a different law based on how we are perceived? Our history?

Whoever you are, wherever you walk, you have a right to do so without impediment - and certainly without the fear of being shot. You are deflecting from the issue.

So Obama is the issue. Race is the issue. Your response if the proof. Were you this activist concerning George Bush's failure to show up for his military duty?

 

[exo_doc]

Look guys, I know this is a charged subject, and the media whipped the hell out of it to stir everyone up, and I do feel for those involved.....BUT,
..This entire dog and pony show was just an attempt to distract people from more serious events that impact everyone.
..i.e. Did you know Obama signed and congress repealed it's ban on insider trading last week? They can now buy-sell-trade stock with insider information again? Legally!

Yes this was tragic, and I hate it happened. But how many times , every day, does this happen? And what coverage do THEY get?

This was just another story to continue polarizing and dividing the people, shoving invented differences in our faces,... so we won't join together and force out all those government criminals. Divide and conquer.

 

[Muadib]

So, you think this is because Obama is black? Obama is not black, Obama is as much white as he is black. Read my last reply .. I know this guy. What he is talking about is Obama's hidden past. And I believe it is hidden for a reason. Where is Obama's college transcripts? (And I am not a birther but ..) why has it been proven that Obama's birth cert. has been altered? What about his social sec. number assigned to someone else? Why hasn't the national press looked into that? Why hasn't the national press reported on a young Georgia mother out walking her 13 month old baby who was robbed by a couple of black teenagers and when they didn't get enough money, shoot and kill the 13 month old kid? Why didn't they report on Trayvon's school hiding the fact that he was a trouble maker at school and stolen property and burglary tools were found in his locker?

This needs a lot more investigation by the press and FBI but it won't get it. Too many hustlers are out stirring up shit to fit their agenda and no one gives a good damn about what really happened.

Do you honestly think that is relevant to what happened? Is it OK that this kid lost his life because he was a little shady in your opinion? Is it OK because black people have committed terrible acts against whites in the past? Have we not done the same to them? Give me a break...

 

[Decker]

Tell me as a police officer, if someone took a swing at you, whether they connected or not, does that give you the right to shoot them? Somehow, I think you know better.

If I was still a police officer and IF someone had me down on the ground pounding my face and head, and if I could get to my weapon ... you bet your ass I would shoot. And with those facts ... I would be exonerated.

Decker

 

[Muadib]

If I was still a police officer and IF someone had me down on the ground pounding my face and head, and if I could get to my weapon ... you bet your ass I would shoot. And with those facts ... I would be exonerated.

Decker

You're probably right, bad example, but let's remember that Zimmerman was no cop and Trayvon had no weapons. Neither of these guys are saints, this is what happens when two a**holes collide and the media smells a ratings frenzy. Neither one of them is blameless in this thing. I think Trayvon was a thug and Zimmerman was a wuss who couldn't take an ass kicking, which is why he shot the kid. I've had the you know what beat out of me, way worse than what George looked like and I bet at one point in your life you have too, tell me, did you shoot anyone for it?

 

[Muadib]

Anyway we're getting off topic here, I'm not questioning the verdict, that is what it is, I don't know enough about Stand Your Ground to determine what the law says in relation to the incident and furthermore I'm sure I haven't heard all of the relevant evidence since I wasn't in the jury box. My point is that the video you posted is full of inaccurate and just plain wrong information, I've provided links to back up the points that he flubs in the video, let's talk about that, because I can 100% conclusively demonstrate that this guy is not only wrong, but he's wrong with an agenda and it's obvious.

 

[Tyger]

Look guys, I know this is a charged subject, and the media whipped the hell out of it to stir everyone up, and I do feel for those involved.....BUT,
..This entire dog and pony show was just an attempt to distract people from more serious events that impact everyone.
..i.e. Did you know Obama signed and congress repealed it's ban on insider trading last week? They can now buy-sell-trade stock with insider information again? Legally!

Yes this was tragic, and I hate it happened. But how many times , every day, does this happen? And what coverage do THEY get?

This was just another story to continue polarizing and dividing the people, shoving invented differences in our faces,... so we won't join together and force out all those government criminals. Divide and conquer.

I'm with you on what you are saying and what follows in the next paragraph is not splitting hairs, just making a point. We have lost so many newspapers in this country that did heavy-duty investigative reporting. They were bought up and systematically disassembled. It is a tragedy - and it is part of the reason why so much is being gotten away with. The newspapers are simply not there anymore. The journalists lost their jobs in the last decade. The company that owned the newspaper in Pennsylvania that broke the story (a la Woodward and Bernstein) regarding the truth about the Irag war, wound up being targeted for a hostile takeover and the newspapers were destroyed, the journalists put out on the streets.

I absolutely agree that as individuals and possibly as a populace we allow ourselves to be distracted - but we are also in charge of what we pay attention to. I disagree that there is a purpose behind any of these current news stories being covered or not (though I could be wrong). This story was driven - like stories on Twitter are driven - by people being interested.

However, there is a story regarding Obama, and it is not the story being driven by fear and loathing of 'the other'. The story is about the Office of the Presidency - about the Congress - about the Supreme Court - and Big Money.

I even feel that UFOology is a massive distraction. Fearing an alien takeover? People, look around you. You're not taking care of business.

 

[Muadib]

It's really simple when it comes to this video to see that it's obviously biased, if it was a fair piece, he would've presented the information about the drugs that Zimmerman was taking as well as what Trayvon was taking, especially since one of the drugs Zimmerman was on is amphetamine based (Adderal, look it up) and amphetamine based drugs like crystal meth are known to cause things like extremely aggressive behavior, hallucination and all kinds of other nasty side effects. So if you want to bring up drugs, and it is a valid issue in my opinion, you need to present both sides, not just the side that exonerates your chosen horse in the race. That is textbook bias, this guy is just as guilty as all of those "awful liberal" media sites out there that do the exact same thing, only it's biased 100% in the other direction. As most of us know, the truth is often somewhere in the middle, and it takes two to tango...

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I am frankly tired of all the Obama conspiracies, really. He can be criticized legitimately for many reasons, one of which is being just another corporate tool. But the nonsense about his birth certificate and social security number and his college grades has been dealt with over and over and over again. Let's move past that and talk about the issues about Martin/Zimmerman.

One key question to consider: If Zimmerman was black, and Martin was white, with the same evidence, would Zimmerman have been convicted? In too many parts of this country, he would have been. The statistics bear this out, so we do have a problem, and it goes way beyond this case.

 

[Skymon876]

Will all due respect I can tell Don has not watched the trial and does not know what the facts are.

Don consider this fact:
Zimmerman was not a cop and did not have the right to tackle Trayvon and hold Trayvon to the ground.

Don consider this fact:
Trayvon has the right to defend himself

Don consider this fact:
The medical examiners in the trial testified that Zimmerman's injuries were not consistant with being hit on the cement over and over. 1/4 centimeter microscopic scratches are not serious.

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
No blood/ No DNA found on trayvons hands or clothing belonged to Zimmerman.
If the mythical magical punches Don claims happened why did Trayvon not have DNA or blood on him from the conflict.

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
Zimmerman changed his story 6 times and lied 4 times

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
Trayvon was yelling for help and it could be heard over the phone during a witnesses 911 call. Trayvon yelling for help seconds before Zimmerman shot.

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
No blood from Zimmerman's fat head was found on the cement. No bashing head into cement was determined.

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
Zimmerman did not even need to go to the hospital

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
No bruises or scratches on Trayvons fingers or hands proving that Trayvon did not punch Zimmerman

Don consider this fact:
IN COURT WE LEARNED THIS:
Zimmerman admitted following Trayvon
Zimmerman admitted Trayvon was running

Don Don Don watch the trial then formulate an opinion because you look silly trying to repeat something you heard on Fox News.

 

[Skymon876]

First of all my arguments in this thread obliterate destroy and put to rest any theory put forth that Trayvon deserved to be shot and deserved to die that night.

The Zimmerman huggers are desperately attempting to insult and make up lies about a dead 17 year old child and I will lay to rest this nonsensical uninformed narrative.

10 facts that prove Trayvon was innocent and did not deserve to die:
(warning if you only watch Fox you might be new to these facts)

THESE FACTS WERE PRESENTED IN COURT:

1. No blood or DNA was on Trayvon's hands, arms, or body that belonged to Zimmerman
for Zimmerman lovers who have a hard time understanding this, let me explain slowly so you can understand.

- If Trayvon punched Zimmerman and banged his fat head into the cement multiple times blood and DNA would be on Trayvon's hands and on his body.
None was found-----------on Trayvon

2. No Zimmerman blood on cement
This excludes that theory, Zimmermans head never was banged on cement or there would be blood present.
(explain that Don)

3. Trayvon was yelling for help 5 seconds before the gun shot was heard.
Here is the audio of Trayvon yelling for help

If Trayvon was yelling for help how can Zimmerman claim he needed to be shot?

4. lies told by Zimmerman
a)Zimmerman said he put Trayvons hands out to the side but the body was found with the hands underneath and not out to the side
b)zimmerman said the incident happened at the T when the body was found over 40ft away and Trayvons Android was found there were the struggle happened.
c) zimmerman lied to Hannity (typical) and said that he did not know what stand your ground was but in court we learned that Zimerman was taught this many times in his classes for the police and knew all about it.

5) Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon even though he was not doing anything wrong. Second, he continued his pursuit although he was told explicitly by a 911 operator to stop doing so. This pursuit showed that he was engaging in racial profiling. Since he presumed that Trayvon must have been doing something wrong, Zimmerman was more likely to initiate the confrontation that eventually led to the death of a 17-year-old.

6) Zimmerman claimed Trayvon magically punched his face over 25 times LOL
yeah right
Zimmerman had minor microscopic injuries no broken nose nothing.
Zimmerman was not even bleeded anymore 30 minutes after he murdered the kid.

7. Trayvon was on the phone with a witnesses who told the court under oath that Trayvon said someone was following him and that someone yelled "what are you doing here"
She also said she heard someone attack Trayvon.

8) An eyewitness looked out her window as testified in court and saw Zimmerman on top and heard someone yelling for help. It sounded like a boy she said which is Trayvon who was 17 and Zimmerman is almost 40.

9) Trayvon had no weapons only skittles and was walking legally down the street to his fathers home and had every right to be there. If Trayvon punched that fat Zimmerman once then Trayvon had the right to do so in order to defend himself.

10) Watch the opening statements by the State yourself

 

[Skymon876]

 

[Muadib]

I am frankly tired of all the Obama conspiracies, really. He can be criticized legitimately for many reasons, one of which is being just another corporate tool. But the nonsense about his birth certificate and social security number and his college grades has been dealt with over and over and over again. Let's move past that and talk about the issues about Martin/Zimmerman.

One key question to consider: If Zimmerman was black, and Martin was white, with the same evidence, would Zimmerman have been convicted? In too many parts of this country, he would have been. The statistics bear this out, so we do have a problem, and it goes way beyond this case.

Amen Gene, just look at what these closet racist conservatives have to tell themselves every day just to wrap their head around the fact that there's a black man in the Oval Office. "Obama's just as white as he is black, blah blah blah" Well, sorry guys, but Obama is most definitely a black man, because that's how he chooses to identify himself and that's all there is to it. You don't get to make that decision for him based on his genes, just like I get to decide which aspect of my mixed heritage (German, Irish, Italian, I know, scary combo) that I wish to personify and identify with, he gets to make the same decision and you need to respect that. Get over it, deal with it, move on with your life. The birth certificate and social security crap is just that, total crap, endorsed by morons who want to throw this man out of office because he's black, it's pathetic and it's obvious.

 

[Wade]

I didn't follow the trial enough to know to make any decisions based on forensic evidence and I don't think any of the evidence or conclusions in the video. ..regardless of its veracity...is even relevant. I just have to ask why a man with a gun decided to blow off a police warning to not take furthur action and allow himself to be close enough to a "suspect" to allow physical contact knowing he was carrying a weapon. even if the facts that came out in the trial are true it sounds like Zimmerman was itching for a fight. (premeditated ?...nah) although I'm not convinced that race had a whole lot to do with the confrontation i don't have any doubt it placed a role in the decision...but I still don't like the idea of the Feds spending our money to persue a civil rights case I think it's a waste of money and unprovable and Zimmerman probably would have taken the same course unless he had reason to believe that the person he was following was carrying a gun. the Florida law has to change, stand your ground does not mean pursue and if you do KEEP YOUR DISTANCE if advanced upon show your weapon and call out a warning.