A new direction for NASA

[davide]

Although it's not exactly as exciting as a manned mission to Mars, at least NASA now has a definitive goal -- to make Muslim nations feel good about themselves. The head of NASA, Charles Bolden, told Al Jazeera that the "foremost" task President Obama had given him is "to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good" about themselves.

Embarassing -- can you get any more condescending that this? I seriously doubt that the average citizen of a Muslim nation now thinks, "WOW, NASA's goal is to make me feel good about myself." For anyone with an ounce of pride, the more likely reaction might be to say, "Stick it up your a$$. I don't need an American bureaucracy to enlighten me or to make me feel any better about myself, my culture or country."

Video:
http://securitydebrief.adfero.com/2010/07/06/nasas-mission-to-muslims/

 

[Kandinsky]

Given the amount of wealth sloshing around the UAE, it'd be a good thing if they invested in their own space program. They've been throwing money at NASA and supporting a domestic space program, but it seems pretty half-assed. Historically, national pride and competition provides urgency to space exploration. Maybe an Islamic move towards domestic space technology would generate increased international activity?

 

[NTS]

From what little I've read on it, there's a widespread (and I think true) perception in the Muslim world that Islam's historical contributions to Western civilization aren't generally recognized. That's what Bolden was referencing. 'Feel good' was an unfortunate choice of words, but it at least someone's trying to find something positive in what is generally a dismal relationship between the U.S. and Muslim nations.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

From what little I've read on it, there's a widespread (and I think true) perception in the Muslim world that Islam's historical contributions to Western civilization aren't generally recognized. That's what Bolden was referencing. 'Feel good' was an unfortunate choice of words, but it at least someone's trying to find something positive in what is generally a dismal relationship between the U.S. and Muslim nations.

Alas, the insane wing-nut bloggers and cable news hacks are making this into some big deal. They can't figure out how to solve real problems, so they make up fake ones.

 

[Michael Allen]

There's probably a pragmatic streak in this mandate--no doubt a lot of contractors\etc working for\around (or using resources) NASA are foreign nationals

Take a look at this: http://www.nasa.gov/privacy/nasa_sorn_10FNMS.html

A short excerpt:

Section 304(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act, codified at 42 USC § 2455; Federal Property Management Regulation, 41 CFR Ch. 101; 14 CFR parts 1203 through 1203b; 14 CFR 1213; 15 CFR 744; 22 CFR 62; 22 CFR 120-130; 40 USC 1441, and 44 U.S.C. 3101, and Executive Order 9397.
PURPOSE(S):
Records are maintained and used by NASA to document, track, manage, analyze, and/or report on foreign visit and assignment access to NASA facilities including Headquarters, Field Offices, National Laboratories, Federally Funded Research and Development Centers, Contractor Sites, components facilities (NASA Management Office, Wallops Flight Facility, White Sands Test Facility, White Sands Complex, Independent Validation & Verification Facility, Michoud Assembly Center, Moffett Federal Airfield, Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex, Goddard Institute for Space Studies, National Scientific Balloon Facility, Plum Brook Station).
ROUTINE USES OF RECORDS MAINTAINED IN THE SYSTEM, INCLUDING CATEGORIES OF USERS AND THE PURPOSES OF SUCH USES:
<style> .mylist { padding-left:22px; } .mylist ol li { padding-bottom:4px } </style>

1. A record from this system may be disclosed to authorized contractors who are responsible for NASA security and who require this information to perform their contractual obligations to NASA.
2. A record from this system may be disclosed to contractors, grantees, participants in cooperative agreements, collaborating researchers, or their employees, if required for the performance of their responsibilities with respect to national security, international visit and assignment, or foreign access.
3. A record from this system may be disclosed to a member of Congress submitting a request involving a constituent when the constituent has requested assistance from the member with respect to the subject matter of his or her own record. The member of Congress must provide a copy of the constituent’s request for assistance.
4. A record from this system may be disclosed to foreign governments or international organizations if required by treaties, international conventions, or executive agreements.
5. A record from this system may be disclosed to members of a NASA Advisory Committee or Committees and interagency boards charged with responsibilities pertaining to international visits and assignments and/or national security when authorized by the individual or to the extent the committee(s) is so authorized and such disclosure is required by law.
6. A record from this system may be disclosed to Federal intelligence organizations, when required by applicable law.
7. A record from this system may be disclosed to Federal agencies for the purpose of determining preliminary visa eligibility when authorized by the individual or as required by law.
8. A record from this system may be disclosed to respond to White House inquiries when required by law.
9. A record from this system may be disclosed to a NASA contractor, subcontractor, grantee, or other Government organization involved in an investigation or administrative inquiry concerning a violation of a Federal or State statute or NASA regulation on the part of an officer or employee of the contractor, subcontractor, grantee, or other Government organization, when and to the extent the information is required by law.
10. A record from this system may be disclosed to an internal or external organization or element thereof, conducting audit activities of a NASA contractor or subcontractor to the extent required by law.
11. A record from this system may be disclosed to provide personal identifying data to Federal, State, local, or foreign law enforcement representatives seeking confirmation of identity of persons under investigation, to the extent necessary and required by law.
12. NASA standard routine uses as set forth in Appendix B

So this isn't a bad policy considering the human resource issues that might currently plague any given governmental or quasi-governmental agency. Money is tight...so insource!

 

[davide]

... the insane wing-nut bloggers ... are making this into some big deal. They can't figure out how to solve real problems, so they make up fake ones.

The head of a taxpayer funded agency, NASA, says that perhaps the "foremost" mission of the organization is to reach out to members of a specific religion and help them feel good about themselves. That's a very presumptuous statement in that he assumes that Muslims feel inferior and that a U.S. government agency can help remedy that. (I guess Hindus and Buddhists have a better self-image and don't need stroking by NASA.)

But, just move along ... there's nothing to see here ... despite the fact that Bolden made these comments, it's just a concoction of insane right-wing bloggers. I do admire this administration in that they can generate such blind devotion. Maybe I'm too old fashioned. I found Kennedy's goals for NASA to be more inspiring. But that's just me.

I tend to agree with Rich Cooper, hardly an insane right-wing blogger, when he said that this was "political pandering in the worst way" and that "for all of the good intentions that may be in the President’s direction and Administrator Bolden’s heart for wanting Muslims “to feel good,” I’m more than certain that people of the Muslim religion are perfectly capable of feeling plenty of pride in their accomplishments in science, engineering, mathematics and so forth without the help of a U.S. government official."

http://securitydebrief.adfero.com/2010/07/06/nasas-mission-to-muslims/

 

[Gene Steinberg]

How about quoting the actual statement so we can parse it, OK?

 

[davide]

How about quoting the actual statement so we can parse it, OK?

A short clip in the original post for this thread was included so forum members could see and hear the actual statements. But I still think the foremost mission of NASA should be space exploration and related innovations, no matter what anybody says.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

A short clip in the original post for this thread was included so forum members could see and hear the actual statements. But I still think the foremost mission of NASA should be space exploration and related innovations, no matter what anybody says.

And how about the full segment? More to the point, reaching out to a specific religious community is definitely NOT the new purpose of NASA. It's just a way to get greater involvement around the world. It's mostly a PR move, and even Bill O'Reilly isn't going nuts over it.

 

[Michael Allen]

I do believe the political right grasps at anything that sounds like "emboldening" the world Islamic or Muslim communities--as they may not distinguish good from bad. Particularly the Christian Right, which has a huge stake in discrediting or disallowing Islamic religious expansion into the west (i.e. if a competitor religion actually makes sense in terms of a more rational theology, then these same rational adherents of Christianity may abandon their churches for the mosques--generally speaking of course. This may explain the sudden surge of irrationality in American Christendom).

---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Here you go Gene
Source: NASA administrator: Muslim outreach a top priority Religion - CNN.com Blogs

"When I became the NASA administrator, [President Obama] charged me with three things," Bolden said in an interview with Al-Jazeera. "One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering."

Video

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---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

While I was reading another source...I stumbled into a very insightful comment

SpaceOurSoul | July 2, 2010 10:31 AM
Bolden’s trip, and this interview in particular, are part of the sustained effort to deconstruct the artificial narrative that al-Qaeda and the like are desperately trying to fool the Arab world into believing: that there is an inevitable clash of civilizations between the Muslim and Christian worlds. This world-view is the basis of Islamist terrorism, the source of their funding, but most importantly the idea that generates new recruits. This source denied, Islamist terrorism will wither. Obama has to walk a fine line, employing direct military action to destroy the terrorist infrastructure that already exists, while projecting an image of the U.S. that directly counters the terrorists’ grand fantasy. Restricting U.S. policy to military action alone, while it destroys the existing infrastructure, will serve to expand the radical base from which terrorism grows. In addition, the power of al-Qaeda and their ilk must be reduced by removing the ideological bedrock that allows them to grow. Exploiting NASA’s image, perhaps the finest aspect of the U.S. from a foreign perspective, is a very effective way of doing this. This strategy is behind Bolden’s trip, and is why Obama’s first interview was to al-Jazeera. It’s not because Obama’s a secretive Islamist, but because deflating Islamism, even more so than defeating it, is a national security imperative.

Source of Quote: Charlie Bolden: Stealth Middle East Diplomat? - NASA Watch

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Let's be blunt: Would you rather have Muslims be friendly with us, thereby isolating the extremist elements even further, or have them all be suspicious of our intentions? What do you think is better?

 

[Jay]

Parse it how you want to, he said what he said. The foremost goal of the director of NASA should be to lead America's space programs. If you think the current administration is serious about space exploration, whatever. I don't think they are anymore than the last administration.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Forgetting this interview, I think the whole NASA abandonment of an truly active space program sucks and has sucked for decades. We gave it up after the moon landings. That's what we should really be complaining about. I regret that, when we finally get to Mars, I'll be too old to care.

 

[Gareth]

NASA are digging now?

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

My stepfather is a reasonably high up budget guy at NASA in DC and he tells me they are in a holding pattern sort of waiting Obama out until a new president and a new head is appointed.

He also said that behind closed doors the guy is a laughing stock amongst NASA's top administrators and the old guard of astronauts/scientists from the 60's and 70s Apollo era. He even cried during a speech he gave.

 

[Michael Allen]

It seems we've gotten into the habit of "waiting out" our presidents--this country has become too polarized to take care of its business.

Perhaps we can apply the "cognitive incommensurability" problem (and model) to the current polarization of "left vs right" politics in America.

NASA may be passing away as a mere front organization for a real covert space program. I am not saying that I believe this, but certainly many of the guests of the show have inquired about the possible recovery (or perhaps delivered freely) and implementation of ET technology.

These are just conjectures--but I think this is a good question for Richard Dolan or Tim Good, i.e. "why the NASA downsizing trend?" and "how does this fit in with the ET technology recovery hypothesis?"

 

[Ron Collins]

(i.e. if a competitor religion actually makes sense in terms of a more rational theology, then these same rational adherents of Christianity may abandon their churches for the mosques--generally speaking of course. This may explain the sudden surge of irrationality in American Christendom).

I think you grossly underestimate how ingrained Judeo-Christian religions are in the United States. Half the problem with organized religion and its followers(and hence our foreign policy??) is the inability for both to open themselves to new ideas. Not to mention the pesky "Jesus was not the son of God, just a minor prophet" thing that Islam preaches. By and large, for better or worse, this is a Christian nation and will remain as such for a very long time.

---------- Post added at 06:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 AM ----------

Forgetting this interview, I think the whole NASA abandonment of an truly active space program sucks and has sucked for decades. We gave it up after the moon landings. That's what we should really be complaining about. I regret that, when we finally get to Mars, I'll be too old to care.

The death-null came after the "Cheaper. Faster. Better." flop that Dan Golden tried. Now, NASA can't get the big budgets cleared. Obama is pounding nails in the coffin left and right. I have recently spoken with a NASA contractor for Boeing at a NASA employees wedding we went to. He was very concerned about his job and mentioned that many bright contractors were accepting jobs overseas. The European Space Agency, Japan, and even China are benefitting from mass exodus of contractors. When the cuts go beyond contractors and start hacking away at NASA itself we will never recover.

---------- Post added at 07:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 AM ----------

These are just conjectures--but I think this is a good question for Richard Dolan or Tim Good, i.e. "why the NASA downsizing trend?" and "how does this fit in with the ET technology recovery hypothesis?"

Good question and I think the answer is, it has never been assumed that NASA would receive any "product" from such efforts. The civilian bureaucracy that permeates every aspect of NASA would be counterproductive. Plus, there is no part of the NASA budget that is black. Everything is accounted for. In fact, the NRO(National Reconnaissance Office) raises its own budget to put satellites in orbit and launches them from Vandenberg AFB not Cape Canaveral. They used "deconflicted" and reengineered ICBM's to launch the CORONA series recon satellites and thus saved themselves (and the taxpayer) billions. I digress. Back to the point. NASA has no budget loophole to plug clandestine operations into. The biggest reason I can see to share the tech is to simultaneously share the bill. No money to offer equals no sharing of tech.

All that said, I dont think we have any back-engineered craft and this is the real reason that it has no bearing on the NASA situation.

 

[Michael Allen]

I think you grossly underestimate how ingrained Judeo-Christian religions are in the United States. Half the problem with organized religion and its followers(and hence our foreign policy??) is the inability for both to open themselves to new ideas. Not to mention the pesky "Jesus was not the son of God, just a minor prophet" thing that Islam preaches. By and large, for better or worse, this is a Christian nation and will remain as such for a very long time.

I think you grossly misread my statement--I wasn't making an "estimation." No matter how ingrained Judeo-Christianity is, some of its adherents will still consider Islam a threat to their own faith's existence. I actually think as you do--the more competitor systems make their presence known, the more "radicalized" and "ingrained" American Christendom will be (ironically this will occur out of a subjective sense of vulnerability in their faith).

 

[Ron Collins]

I do not disagree with what you say here.

... I actually think as you do--the more competitor systems make their presence known, the more "radicalized" and "ingrained" American Christendom ...

The statement I responded to seemed to be trying to make a case for legitimizing the concept that a predominantly Christian nation could objectively look at a the tenants of a competitor religion and be persuaded to switch. I personally think this is impossible given the impact Christianity has on our culture and in our political ideology. Add in the moron factor (abject islamic/muslim hatred as justified by the events of 9/11) and you probably have a better shot of converting the masses to Buddhism than to Islam.

This is where I think your missing the boat with this statement.

will be (ironically this will occur out of a subjective sense of vulnerability in their faith).

I think a more likely causation to be abject hatred do to 9/11 and the subsequent military actions than a fear of a vulnerability.

 

[Michael Allen]

I do not disagree with what you say here.


The statement I responded to seemed to be trying to make a case for legitimizing the concept that a predominantly Christian nation could objectively look at a the tenants of a competitor religion and be persuaded to switch. I personally think this is impossible given the impact Christianity has on our culture and in our political ideology. Add in the moron factor (abject islamic/muslim hatred as justified by the events of 9/11) and you probably have a better shot of converting the masses to Buddhism than to Islam.

This is where I think your missing the boat with this statement.

I think a more likely causation to be abject hatred do to 9/11 and the subsequent military actions than a fear of a vulnerability.

i.e....that judeo-christian vunerability may have been heightened by (from their perspective) god's "no-show" on 9-11. The subsequent military actions and increased zeal against the Islamicists bear this out as an ostensive indicator of the same felt vulnerability. There may even be a competitive component in the "Jesus Camps" that sprung up after 9-11 teaching the youth to have the same self-sacrificing zeal as their Islamic counterparts--essentially a proto-mirror of the Taliban/Al-Qaida/Islamic extremists. A proposition: the more powerless a God is perceived in a particular religion the more likely its adherents would take up arms to defend itself.