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A walk on the mean side

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boomerang

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
Nice to be back here amongst people of good will.

I have recently spent a little time on one of the forums dedicated to skepticism. This was my first venture on a dedicated skeptic's forum. My goal was a look at the "other side of the coin" with an emphasis on critical thinking that is sometimes lacking in esoterica.

The upside: some decent quality critical thinking.

The downside: an atmosphere of the "true believer" (in not believing??) with a small core of verbal bullies who relentlessly pile on the dissenting voice, with long entangled posts and a kind of "pack mentality" that nips away at its prey until it appears they have won the argument.

So a word of warning: Anyone venturing into the domain of the so-called "skeptic" might want to grow a thick skin and a 'take it or leave it attitude.'

Namaste,

Jim
 
Even though we have some very thoughtful "skeptics" here there are some drive by bullies on occasion. I actually am very "skeptical" of true believers in anything. Some of the same things that I do that irritate some of the skeptics on here are the same things that I do in reverse that irritate the "believers" on my hometown news forum. :-) I don't do it to irritate I simply don't follow a "pack" mentality. The honest truth is "everybody heaps teachers to their own ears." Which means that I hear a report of a near death experience. Well sounds good to me so I go to the "experts" that "understand" it as a spiritual reality. Somebody else hears the same report. It bothers their sense of what "reality" is. So they go to their "experts" who assure them it's all a brain fart and we are just naked apes who mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Or I hear a ufo report. Now, I don't believe in nuts and bolts ufo's. So, I go to the "experts" and hear the "It's just lights in the sky,or hysteria or a meteor." So, my world view is no longer challenged. Somebody else who does believe we are being visited will go to their "experts" and hear how "they" meaning the government or other sources have been covering up the truth and with all the planets out there we are just one of many and it will be disclosed soon that we are not alone.

So, listen to the researchers like Sheldrake and Brian Josehpson and Rodger Penrose. Listen to the skeptics like Denning (did I spell that name correctly?) and Schermer and the rest. But always, always remember this. Everybody is coming from a worldview. Some may be more in tune with reality than others but everybody has a stake in being "right." I would never, ever go to Pat Robertson to find the truth about Buddism. I would never, ever go to Richard Dawkins to find the truth about faith. So, read,read,read. But, always have a salt shaker ready with a healthy grain of salt and a big glass of water to wash it all down. :cool:
 
Well most people here know that I'm a skeptic of the James Randi variety, and I'm a big fan of Michael Shermer as well. However, I hang out here because I'm challenged by intellegent people that happen to believe in things I don't think are real in the same sense they do. I also stick around because despite the differences, we seem to have spirited, yet civil discussions.
 
That's why we like you :) A.I for your wise words and skeptical mind.:) At least you are prepared to read and debate without use smart ass remarks and make the Paracast professorial forum.

Peace be with you,
BF
 
Sorry if I seemed to paint all skeptics with too broad a brush. Skepticism is a key component of critical thinking, which is always crucial. I suppose I was unprepared for the siege mentality of this particular (other) forum. Or maybe I just caught them on a bad day? Ufologists are often regarded as petty infighters, and the doubters to be cool and rational. I'm still naive after all these years, and generalizations are tricky.

There are balanced and not so well balanced people in all camps. What I have seen here is balanced debate from both sides with personal jabs kept very minimal. :) So my original post was a chance to 'vent' a little, and also an expression of appreciation. A space where we can agree to disagree is "what it is all about". :cool:

Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

Jim
 
boomerang said:
Sorry if I seemed to paint all skeptics with too broad a brush. Skepticism is a key component of critical thinking, which is always crucial. I suppose I was unprepared for the siege mentality of this particular (other) forum. Or maybe I just caught them on a bad day? Ufologists are often regarded as petty infighters, and the doubters to be cool and rational. I'm still naive after all these years, and generalizations are tricky.

There are balanced and not so well balanced people in all camps. What I have seen here is balanced debate from both sides with personal jabs kept very minimal. :) So my original post was a chance to 'vent' a little, and also an expression of appreciation. A space where we can agree to disagree is "what it is all about". :cool:

Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

Jim
Click to expand...

There are definitely mean spirited and condescending people everywhere. I know I could be sometimes. Phil Plait's "Don't be a Dick" speech at TAM last year was a real eye opener for me, which is why I've referenced it many times in the past. Made me realize more than ever that being a jerk leads to nothing good.
 
Which one wasn't him? Both? OH well, anyway I'm sure he's still "out there" somewhere. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :p
 
Lance still visits the forum, as we can see by the occasional "thanks" he gives. However, I don't think he has posted anything under a different name.
 
My problem has always been the religious aspect of life, you get skeptics who display critical thinking where UFO's are concerned, but have no problem with accepting the hoax that is mainstream religion.

Its a hoax its a hoax, but i beleive in jesus...................

source A is a hoax.... but i believe in jesus

happy to accept the evidence that one thing is a hoax, but at the same time falling hook line and sinker for another.

I am constantly flabergasted where in this genre people can spot one hoax, but subscribe to another.

use exacting standards of evidence to debunk one hoax, but throw that away and blindly accept another one.

I have to admit, i dont ,and as far back as i can remember , suffer fools gladly. the problem seems to be imo and based on my personal observations is that the internet is chock a block full of fools.

It makes for a very frustrating experience.
 
"Hoax" means a deliberate attempt to deceive. My wife is a devout Catholic, and based on what I've seen of her church the people there (including the priest) are sincere. I don't share their beliefs but they aren't lying about them.
 
I made no mention of christians being hoaxers, but there is lots of evidence that jesus is a myth, that he did not exist as a real person, but is instead a character and part of a story

lots of good info here

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html

The truth is, that none of the roman chroniclers of the time mention him

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/


and keep in mind from judaisms pov jesus IS a hoax

Jews have traditionally seen Jesus as one of a number of false messiahs who have appeared throughout history.<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP> However, since the general Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come and that the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism. At the heart of Judaism are the Torah, its commandments, the Tanakh, and ethical monotheism such as in the Shema — all of which predated Jesus.
Click to expand...

Im not here to convert anyone, believe what you like, but personally the evidence suggests to me there was no jesus.

Just the basic story seems unlikely, born of a virgin ? in those days that was a big deal, are we to believe jospeph didnt consumate the marriage on his wedding night ? and then stayed with his bride when she turned out to be pregnant, it just doesnt add up.

Personally there is more evidence jesus is a myth than the son of some celestial magic deity.

Ergo its a hoax, presenting something as true and real, when its not ,is a hoax.

But my original point is i find it strange when critical thinkers can look at a UFO case and use the evidence before them to conclude its a hoax, and then suspend that process when it comes to religion.

I dont want to take the thread off topic so i wint post anymore about this, just that my original point was, that i find it strange that debunkers and skeptics can also be deeply religious. it makes me wonder about their motivations when they debunk UFO cases, are they doing it because the truth is worth digging for, or because its a challenge to their religious ideas
 
I don't want to go off-topic either, but you might be interested in the story of Wallace Fard (or Ford; even his name is uncertain) who purportedly founded the Nation of Islam. When you look at the questions surrounding the life (and even existence) of a man who lived (if he did) in major cities of 20th century America, it goes to show how much more difficult it is to know anything for sure about a 1st century man in a distant corner of the Roman Empire.

Wikimedia Error
 
Simone_m said:
And I don't want to hear about "all the deaths that the world's religions are responsible for". Here is a link that shows you how vast the populations of those put down under athiest communist regimes and revolutions. Under Joseph Stalin, 800,000 people, then 390,000 more, during a forced resetlement. Lest we forget.
Click to expand...

From that, we can gather that people can be terrible no matter what they believe in. Whether one believes in a god or not is meaningless when it comes to if they are evil or not.
 
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