Acceptance of Reality - What's Your Number?

[Randall]

A Chart to Ponder


Gant Chart - How do you rate?​

 

[Randall]

With respect to UFOs I'd rate myself as A4.

 

[stonehart]

A Chart to Ponder​

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How do you rate?​

With UFO's that places me smack in the middle of A and C number 3 ... with Religion as I know it is going to come up in this thread at some point I am a C no doubt about it.. with politics I am orbiting C some where out past Pluto .. I don't trust Politicians

 

[Randall]

With UFO's that places me smack in the middle of A and C number 3 ... with Religion as I know it is going to come up in this thread at some point I am a C no doubt about it.. with politics I am orbiting C some where out past Pluto .. I don't trust Politicians

Interesting, so with UFOs you count yourself as a C3 ( witness/skeptic ) but still don't believe. This implies that what you witnessed and have studied still isn't sufficient for you to believe. Can you elaborate on that a little more?

 

[stonehart]

Interesting, so with UFOs you count yourself as a C3 ( witness/skeptic ) but still don't believe. This implies that what you witnessed and have studied still isn't sufficient for you to believe. Can you elaborate on that a little more?

I sure can.

I saw a strange light moving slowly in the night sky that made no noise and did not move like a conventional aircraft ... now was it a UFO? well yes in the truest sense of the word it was an Unidentified flying object .. was it Aliens? now that is a whole other ball game.

To be honest I try to keep a skeptical mind on purpose as it helps you to step away from the subject and look at it with a critical eye. But having said that I am not so skeptical that I will throw the baby out with the bath water if you get my drift.

So to go back to the sighting I had, the first thing I did after it was to work out what it was not.... I came up blank on all known types of civilian aircraft.. I did start to wounder if it could have been a drone so I asked a close pilot friend and aviation nut if it could have been one and his answer was "I doubt it"... why? well even though it is know that the US has flown drones through NZ airspace at high altitude where we live is not close to that flight path.. (they get flown out this way to Australia for some reason). The lack of any noise and that it was below the cloud deck where we should have been able to hear it discounted this as well... The final kicker was the movement .. you see I don't know of any drones that make 90 deg turns other than the small Octocopter types and they don't fly here and not at that height.

But in the end I still keep the drone idea in mind as a possible answer.

C = study and investigation .... A = Witness and firsthand experience ... So I see myself in your chart as A/C 3

Hope that helped.

Hell Ufology I am sure there are many Alien Civilizations in our Galaxy alone but I still keep a skeptical mind on the subject of UFO's as we all should if this field is to ever be taken seriously.
True believers really don't help as it it amounts to the same sort of thinking that creationists use if you understand my meaning.

 

[Randall]

The final kicker was the movement .. you see I don't know of any drones that make 90 deg turns other than the small Octocopter types and they don't fly here and not at that height.

Cool. Thanks for that. 90 degree turns are possible with our own technology, just not at any appreciable speed. So unless this object was really moving fast, I can see why you would still have reservations. But there is another angle to the chart, and that is that it's possible to be a skeptic and a believer based on study & investigation alone, without the benefit of firsthand experience. You seem very knowledgeable about UFOs, so what aspect of UFO studies seems sufficiently lacking for you to still not believe?

 

[Tyger]

Regarding Ufology I am a C.

I like a good story but I think Ufology is a weak story badly told on most days. Which is too bad because it has lots of potential.

Firsthand experiences are not proof of the story being spun.

Belief and Faith can be tripping stones to illusion and delusion.

However, I also am of the belief that there is always a bit of truth in everything - and if that belief is in any measure true, then there is something here to be looked at.

 

[stonehart]

Cool. Thanks for that. 90 degree turns are possible with our own technology, just not at any appreciable speed. So unless this object was really moving fast, I can see why you would still have reservations. But there is another angle to the chart, and that is that it's possible to be a skeptic and a believer based on study & investigation alone, without the benefit of firsthand experience. You seem very knowledgeable about UFOs, so what aspect of UFO studies seems sufficiently lacking for you to still not believe?

I guess I just keep an air of caution about me when it comes to the study of this subject, you know the old trick of separating the academic mind set from the personal one. It was some thing my anthropology professor kept drilling into us as he said you need to stand away from the subject at hand and keep a critical mind at all times. The reason for this was that in the field it is easy to contaminate what you are studying by subconsciously introducing your own bias. In the end it is near impossible to remove yourself from any given subject completely but by being aware of it you can reduce the amount of personal bias from creeping in. It comes down to that maxim I say every so often on the forum "I don't want to believe I want to know" and that takes a different angle of approach when looking into UFO studies as it is more of an academic slant I think.

Now if you ask me what I think on a personal level as to the UFO mystery then the answer would be "Hell yes there is certainly some thing going on", I mean even if you remove the crack pots, miss identification, and fakers you are still left with a profound mystery that is hard to dismiss. I guess in the end I could be all three areas as I certainly believe there are other civilizations out there and given the time scale of the Universe it is entirely possible that some have worked out interplanetary or inter dimensional travel. But I don't have solid evidence of either so I keep the critical mind until such time as evidence shows itself.

I think there are many here on this forum that have this mindset if they know it or not.. Take your fine self, you obviously believe there is some thing going on but many of the posts I have read still show a mind that keeps a critical approach to the subject.. this is a good thing.

skepticism is not a dirty word when it is used right.

As to what is lacking in the UFO field I think it is a solid set of study rules that is held to universally... I don't think this is ever going to happen but that is what it needs. I understand that there are good people out there trying to get to the bottom of what is going on .. but for every one of them there are ten nut jobs and fakers trying to make a fast buck.

 

[Wade]

I guess I just keep an air of caution about me when it comes to the study of this subject, you know the old trick of separating the academic mind set from the personal one. It was some thing my anthropology professor kept drilling into us as he said you need to stand away from the subject at hand and keep a critical mind at all times. The reason for this was that in the field it is easy to contaminate what you are studying by subconsciously introducing your own bias. In the end it is near impossible to remove yourself from any given subject completely but by being aware of it you can reduce the amount of personal bias from creeping in. It comes down to that maxim I say every so often on the forum "I don't want to believe I want to know" and that takes a different angle of approach when looking into UFO studies as it is more of an academic slant I think.

Now if you ask me what I think on a personal level as to the UFO mystery then the answer would be "Hell yes there is certainly some thing going on", I mean even if you remove the crack pots, miss identification, and fakers you are still left with a profound mystery that is hard to dismiss. I guess in the end I could be all three areas as I certainly believe there are other civilizations out there and given the time scale of the Universe it is entirely possible that some have worked out interplanetary or inter dimensional travel. But I don't have solid evidence of either so I keep the critical mind until such time as evidence shows itself.

I think there are many here on this forum that have this mindset if they know it or not.. Take your fine self you obviously believe there is some thing going on but many of the posts I have read still show a mind that keeps a critical approach to the subject.. this is a good thing.

skepticism is not a dirty word when it is used right.

As to what is lacking in the UFO field I think it is a solid set of study rules that is held to universally... I don't think this is ever going to happen but that is what it needs. I understand that there are good people out there trying to get to the bottom of what is going on .. but for every one of them there are ten nut jobs and fakers trying to make a fast buck.

That was as solid as a response as you'll ever see. Good Post !

 

[stonehart]

That was as solid as a response as you'll ever see. Good Post !

Thanks Spooky.. I don't post as much as I used to and I guess I should.. But most of the time I read through the threads and see posts from you and many others that tend to say what I would so I just like the post and keep reading.

 

[Randall]

I guess I just keep an air of caution about me when it comes to the study of this subject, you know the old trick of separating the academic mind set from the personal one. It was some thing my anthropology professor kept drilling into us as he said you need to stand away from the subject at hand and keep a critical mind at all times.

So if we were to accept reality ( as is the title of the thread ) you're actually more of a C4 Skeptic/Witness/Believer ( more or less in that order ). While I appreciate why your anthropology professor "kept drilling" you to think a certain way, I think that conditioning people to completely reject their own beliefs as valid confirmations of reality is going too far. How can we ever fully accept the reality of something unless we allow ourselves the freedom to believe it. There isn't anything wrong with believing in something so long as one doesn't become so personally invested in it that they cannot accept new information that will facilitate the evolution of their beliefs toward the greater truth. IMO there is also something psychologically beneficial to accepting and expressing our beliefs. Being able to express what we really honestly think and how we feel is IMO what grounds us as humans, while repressing our beliefs and feelings too much does just the opposite.

 

[stonehart]

So if we were to accept reality ( as is the title of the thread ) you're actually more of a C4 Skeptic/Witness/Believer ( more or less in that order ). While I appreciate why your anthropology professor "kept drilling" you to think a certain way, I think that conditioning people to completely reject their own beliefs as valid confirmations of reality is going too far. How can we ever fully accept the reality of something unless we allow ourselves the freedom to believe it. There isn't anything wrong with believing in something so long as one doesn't become so personally invested in it that they cannot accept new information that will facilitate the evolution of their beliefs toward the greater truth. IMO there is also something psychologically beneficial to accepting and expressing our beliefs. Being able to express what we really honestly think and how we feel is IMO what grounds us as humans, while repressing our beliefs and feelings too much does just the opposite.

Fair enough comment.

anyway good thread and hope more come in here and get involved, as it is very interesting to see how others think or see themselves thinking.

 

[Randall]

Fair enough comment.

anyway good thread and hope more come in here and get involved, as it is very interesting to see how others think or see themselves thinking.

Yes I was hoping for more people too. But I guess not everyone is into being psychoanalyzed. I never thought about that part when I was making the chart. I thought it would just be kinda fun to see how people relate to these issues. But I guess it's probably more comfortable for most people to rate themselves in private than to share the results with the rest of the world. Oh well I should have known. Thanks for your participation though .

 

[stonehart]

Yes I was hoping for more people too. But I guess not everyone is into being psychoanalyzed. I never thought about that part when I was making the chart. I thought it would just be kinda fun to see how people relate to these issues. But I guess it's probably more comfortable for most people to rate themselves in private than to share the results with the rest of the world. Oh well I should have known.

You know I did not think about that until after the fact but I was not bothered about myself. Hmm when I think about it it may be a side effect of Academia.. got very used to being cross examined and criticized for the way I was thinking on subjects... To be honest it was one of the reasons I left, if you upset the apple cart or rattle Ivory Towers you can be marginalized.
Those in the UFO/Paranormal field know what I am talking about I am sure.

But anyway people don't be shy .. come on I challenge you to get involved in this thread

 

[Wade]

OK OK , I can't take anymore of your browbeating B4

At least as far as I can determine.

 

[stonehart]

OK OK , I can't take anymore of your browbeating B4

At least as far as I can determine.

hahahaha thanks man.. now take a seat in the chair for the interrogation mawhahahahaha .. no just kidding.

 

[Randall]

Regarding Ufology I am a C.

I like a good story but I think Ufology is a weak story badly told on most days. Which is too bad because it has lots of potential.

Firsthand experiences are not proof of the story being spun.

Belief and Faith can be tripping stones to illusion and delusion.

However, I also am of the belief that there is always a bit of truth in everything - and if that belief is in any measure true, then there is something here to be looked at.

I think C ( skeptic ) alone is a perfectly fair response for someone with no firsthand experience and/or hasn't done sufficient study. However I think that after a sufficient amount of study, it becomes unreasonable to believe that everyone is either wrong or making things up.

 

[Randall]

OK OK , I can't take anymore of your browbeating B4
At least as far as I can determine.

Cool. I think anyone who answers B4 ( believer, skeptic, witness ) is probably the most honest answer anyone can give. That's not to imply that others aren't also honest, but I think it shows more openness to accepting the world around ourselves rather than repressing experiences we don't immediately understand. It's also not completely blind because it intersects with firsthand experience and skeptical inquiry ... I applaud this answer !

 

[stonehart]

Come on paracasters get in here ... don't be shy

 

[Tyger]

Come on paracasters get in here ... don't be shy

I'm new to this place - what is paracasters? and how does one get 'on it'?

Is it a radio show?