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Another G.W.T.? I'm sorry.

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tyder001

Paranormal Adept
G.W.T. (Global Warming Thread) but, it does concern a Nobel Prize winner and I liked the way the article was written. I'm still on the fence myself. The earth goes through cycles. Mankind leaves a large footprint and certainly has an effect on the environment. But, the earth went through climate change before mankind arrived and will continue to do so. Anyway, I always enjoy the honest back and forth from real scientist instead of the "pop" flavor of the month on Larry King Live or whatever is being shown these days. 8)


Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming | Fox News
 
really?.. another one?

When discussing this topic you first have to clarify what you are talking about. Yes global warming (GW) is real, so is global cooling and so are ice ages. If you want to discuss human impact on warming it is called anthropogenic global warming (AGW) which is also real but so miniscule it is hardly measurable. When you want to discus whether humans are causing the planet to heat rapidly enough to have a negative or deadly effect on humans or the planet it is called catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW). Because the scientists saying we are causing too much warming know they are being less than honest and actual data proves it, they changed the name to climate change, then they realized many of us know that indeed climate changes as it has done for 4+ billion years they changed it again to climate disruption...then global climate disruption and soon it will be some other nonsensical name.

So... what flavor of this whole scam did you want to discuss?
 
really?.. another one?

When discussing this topic you first have to clarify what you are talking about. Yes global warming (GW) is real, so is global cooling and so are ice ages. If you want to discuss human impact on warming it is called anthropogenic global warming (AGW) which is also real but so miniscule it is hardly measurable. When you want to discus whether humans are causing the planet to heat rapidly enough to have a negative or deadly effect on humans or the planet it is called catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW). Because the scientists saying we are causing too much warming know they are being less than honest and actual data proves it, they changed the name to climate change, then they realized many of us know that indeed climate changes as it has done for 4+ billion years they changed it again to climate disruption...then global climate disruption and soon it will be some other nonsensical name.

So... what flavor of this whole scam did you want to discuss?

We might as well not discuss this being that you already have it all figured out...
 
really?.. another one?

When discussing this topic you first have to clarify what you are talking about. Yes global warming (GW) is real, so is global cooling and so are ice ages. If you want to discuss human impact on warming it is called anthropogenic global warming (AGW) which is also real but so miniscule it is hardly measurable. When you want to discus whether humans are causing the planet to heat rapidly enough to have a negative or deadly effect on humans or the planet it is called catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW). Because the scientists saying we are causing too much warming know they are being less than honest and actual data proves it, they changed the name to climate change, then they realized many of us know that indeed climate changes as it has done for 4+ billion years they changed it again to climate disruption...then global climate disruption and soon it will be some other nonsensical name.

So... what flavor of this whole scam did you want to discuss?

Holy hell, I agree with pixel on that.
I don't think many climate scientists subscribe to the CAGW thing. If you look at the studies, most point to AGW.
 
We might as well not discuss this being that you already have it all figured out...
A person has to know what they are debating before they start. GC GW AGW CAGW CC CD and ice ages are all very different.
 
I brought Angel and Pixel together with one post? ;) And they said it wouldn't last. :cool: I do think the article is interesting and it shows the room in the sciences for honest inquiry. Of course it also shows the political influences. But, that's the world we live in.
 
That's true. It's also important to understand if you are debating the politics or the science - most people can't keep them separate.

very true. so does the world want to believe a washed up hypocritical politician who says the debate is over and starts up a carbon credit company to cash in on the scam or do you believe the scientists who study actual data?
 
very true. so does the world want to believe a washed up hypocritical politician who says the debate is over and starts up a carbon credit company to cash in on the scam or do you believe the scientists who study actual data?

I've always thought the carbon credit stuff was garbage. They're just a way for rich people to feel better about polluting. Penn and Teller did a great episode on Bullshit about it.
 
I've always thought the carbon credit stuff was garbage. They're just a way for rich people to feel better about polluting. Penn and Teller did a great episode on Bullshit about it.

you think al gores plan for carbon credit trading was garbage but you trust HIM to give you the computer modeled "facts" on global warming instead of real climate scientists who study the actual observed data then use the scientific method to verify their findings? or are you subscribing to the known corrupt findings of the UN's Intergovernmental panel of corrupt, bought and paid for scientists who admitted in their own emails and modeling data that they would alter the peer review process, take trips with their funding, etc etc etc...
 
If you think Global Warming is just "fact." If you think "science" is some holy "entity" that is just one hive mind. If you think politics doesn't play a role in research you might not like this site. Now, I have not read through the whole site. I don't endorse the site or the research as a whole. I don't even have enough of a scientific background to debate all the issues. But, this is an interesting site.

About Steve Milloy | JunkScience.com
 
If you think Global Warming is just "fact." If you think "science" is some holy "entity" that is just one hive mind. If you think politics doesn't play a role in research you might not like this site. Now, I have not read through the whole site. I don't endorse the site or the research as a whole. I don't even have enough of a scientific background to debate all the issues. But, this is an interesting site.

About Steve Milloy | JunkScience.com

If you don't think that both extreme sides of the global warming argument are political, you're hiding your head in the sand. You can't trust what Haliburton says about the environment, but you can't trust Greenpeace either.
 
If you don't think that both extreme sides of the global warming argument are political, you're hiding your head in the sand. You can't trust what Haliburton says about the environment, but you can't trust Greenpeace either.

I'd have to say, I don't consider "trust" as part of this issue. For me it's not about the data. It's more about connecting to where people are coming from regarding this issue. Simply put, those whom have an ear for caring, protecting and connecting to the Earth/Nature as opposed to those whom think that humanity can piss on whatever it pleases without ever having to address how that reflects its relationship to its source or resources... Well, that's where I draw the line. For me it's about listening to people's processes, or where they are coming from, and ultimately where they're AT will determine what is important.

Of course, politically, we've created a whirling shitstorm of agendas around the validity or invalidity of the issue. This seems unavoidable as insecurity is a particular strength of the human species, easily manipulated via popular sentiment. Whatever the "truth" is related to these issues seems inconsequential, as our perspectives appear to revolve more around the way we come to a state of personal conviction. For a good deal of us, it's all about what we are told, or hear, read, ingest, or in the word of our present operating paradigm, the information we accumulate and collect and obsess over. Sadly, that shit comes and goes with the prevailing scientific and academic tides. For others, its about coming to feel connected at an interior level, or acknowledging one's experience of connection to self and nature. Of course that's exactly what's got people going ape over this issue. It's not about the issue, it's about the people on both sides of the divide. Each side flipping hates the other. The dividing line on this issue has inspired a deep schism and sense of distrust over the way we come to define our convictions. I.e. one is informed from an exterior source and the other an interior. Exterior is belief oriented, and interior is experience oriented. For instance, if you can't provide the data but are still convicted that paying attention to environmental concerns is integral to your process, one is strung up and ridiculed as a tree-hugging, hippie liberal freakshow, and vice versa: if you don't buy the argument, you must be a callous, gun-toting, meat-eating murder. Sad.

To me this whole business is just an integration process happening at a societal level -and it's going to have its cost. Who knows how long it will take to flesh this out, as there is a much bigger issue trying to find a resolution. In my opinion, it's a fantastic distraction, and one that will prevent many from dealing with their own anxiety and discomfort about having to address their present condition.
 
Humanity's collective consciousness always seems to be in the throes of cognitive dissidence, flailing against the walls of cages of own making, in endless argument with itself over matters beyond anyone's single ability to comprehend or control.

[sotto voice] Before I'd get all wound around the axle about man-made global warming, I'd go see a neurologist. (cough, cough) Wait, that's another thread.

The surreal fact that the world in general is in denial and willful ignorance of the great danger posed by, and implications raised by, the ongoing nuclear crisis in Fukushima, adds an element of dark comedy to the whole global warming debate. Strain a gnat, swallow a camel.
 
Humanity's collective consciousness always seems to be in the throes of cognitive dissidence, flailing against the walls of cages of own making, in endless argument with itself over matters beyond anyone's single ability to comprehend or control.
.

This is a good point. Confounding isn't it? You know, there's a healthy chunk of psychology folk who think the world is alive with our projections. Which makes sense in alot of ways. Now, if we could just learn to stop taking ourselves so damn seriously, maybe we could see the issues we're facing as opportunities to remove barriers to our growth.
 
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