Apparently I am stupid.

[Ron Collins]

Just as the title suggest, I must be stupid. There are a few things I just do not get. All kiding aside, honestly, please someone explain these to me so that I can understand where you are coming from.

1 -- It goes something like this: "Any advanced civilization able to traverse the the stars wouldn't care a lick about us and probably would just pass us by."

Really? Sentient life developed on our planet. Thats one our of 8 or 9 depending on your allegiance to Pluto. We have catalogued 300+ other planets that are probably not conducive to forming sentient life as we know (however you personally view this happening, Evolution or ID).

Now, I get that some people use this tongue and cheek. But, there are a bunch more that do not. It is really their opinion. It is those people I am aiming at here.

So, I don't get why finding life would be of no interest to a space faring civilization. I can not conceive of a single situation where, given the reverse situation, humankind would look at a planet teeming with life in a mostly barren solar system and say "Bah, who cares about that shit".

We would always study it. Always. Period. Is this statement merely naive or is it a lazy half ass attempt at witty social commentary. I certainly don't think it is a well formed conclusion arrived at by thorough and exhaustive reasoning. Why am I wrong?

2 -- IF, and I am not purely advocating the ETH, but IF UFO occupants are alien beings or constructs originating from physical planets other than our own... why do their motivations for coming here and being elusive have to conform to a single agenda?

Personally, i think it was Star Trek that polluted this pool. Each planetary system united in purpose and goal governed by one set of rules and driven by the same goals. If we are any indication, and since I can't imagine that we would be wildly unique in this regard, there would be about a thousand agendas represented with the tiniest of structural threads linking all and perhaps similar ones grouped for support. Meaning, it doesn't have to an "all in" scenario. Perhaps the alien environmentalist lobby wants to communicate a message of natural harmony. Maybe the research science guys are very interested in the human colon, reproductive system, and various cow parts to name a few. Perhaps the military faction wants to plan for a time of war or defense and maybe the psychological guys want to do weird shit to see how we react. Given a reverse situation, would we be different? Nope. Not for a second. Again, why am I wrong?

I have more but these will do to start with. Maybe i will open another thread for a couple more. I truly hope I get some real discussion on these. I am starting to feel like a guy on an island.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

As far as #2 goes (Supposing we're being visited at all) I've long had a problem with the idea of multiple species or multiple agendas, ie; the good guys, the bad guys, and everything in between. My problem with that is that although there are numerous physical descriptions of the entities; nordics, greys, insectoids, reptilians, mantises, hairy humanoids, etc., the behaviors and capabilities are almost always described in a similar way; telepathy, paralysis, secrecy, meaningless or allegorical dialog, humanoid body-type, etc. All of that tells me that either they are similar because of culture and cross contamination or if there is anything legitimate to it that all of these beings are related in some way. So my best guess is that either we aren't being visited at all or we are being so by one species or consciousness, albeit perhaps in multiple forms.

But anyway, as far as things related to this subject that get your goat goes one of mine is the notion that ET contact is somehow "extraordinary" in the first place. There's billions and billions of star systems out there and species have had billions of years to potentially find a means for space travel. Considering all of that a Milky Way where nobody is going anywhere is the most extraordinary possibility of all in my estimation. Yet ya' get plenty of folks who liken the idea of interstellar visitation with flying pigs and leprechauns for whatever reason.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

1 -- It goes something like this: "Any advanced civilization able to traverse the the stars wouldn't care a lick about us and probably would just pass us by."

Possibly. But how would we know? Who knows what the motivation for another race or species visiting this planet is or would be. If you try to equate another or advanced civilization with a human mindset then maybe they would visit us, be it for curiosity, research, acquiring minerals or elements or other more nefarious reasons.

2 -- IF, and I am not purely advocating the ETH, but IF UFO occupants are alien beings or constructs originating from physical planets other than our own... why do their motivations for coming here and being elusive have to conform to a single agenda?

I don't think they do have to conform to a single agenda. If there are indeed different species of beings coming here then their motivations could also be different.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Possibly. But how would we know? Who knows what the motivation for another race or species visiting this planet is or would be. If you try to equate another or advanced civilization with a human mindset then maybe they would visit us, be it for curiosity, research, acquiring minerals or elements or other more nefarious reasons.



I don't think they do have to conform to a single agenda. If there are indeed different species of beings coming here then their motivations could also be different.

OK, but if they are different species from different planets with their own agendas then why do they all seem to be in possession of the same pencil-like paralysis ray (I've seen this same instrument described in hundreds of CE3s no matter what the entity type is)? Why are all of them telepathic? Why do they all maintain exactly the same code of secrecy? Why do we get similar reports of them floating in single file regardless of the species described? Why do we have reports of different types being seen together on the same vessels? And what's with the Yoda or Confucious-like dialog? If we really have 57 varieties of ETs from perhaps 57 different star systems visiting us then why doesn't any of them choose to speak in any manner other than haiku or something equally meaningless?

 

[The Pair of Cats]

OK, but if they are different species from different planets with their own agendas then why do they all seem to be in possession of the same pencil-like paralysis ray (I've seen this same instrument described in hundreds of CE3s no matter what the entity type is)? Why are all of them telepathic? Why do they all maintain exactly the same code of secrecy? Why do we get similar reports of them floating in single file regardless of the species described? Why do we have reports of different types being seen together on the same vessels? And what's with the Yoda or Confucious-like dialog? If we really have 57 varieties of ETs from perhaps 57 different star systems visiting us then why doesn't any of them choose to speak in any manner other than haiku or something equally meaningless?

Again, who knows. Any opinion is just conjecture. Is it many species with just one agenda? Is it some kind of human psyops agenda? Do the aliens somehow tap into humans cultural biases and appear to them as they would expect to be seen? Is there indeed some sort of galactic federation or coalition having a combined agenda? Do they all buy their pencil-like paralysis rays from some sort of galactic Office Works stationary store?
Maybe they all worked out millenia ago that the human mind is easily fooled or controlled and that any method of calming us the fuck down while anal probing us is the way to go. Otherwise good old BillyBob might snap out of it and start twisting the heads off them and their insectoid looking mates.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Again, who knows. Any opinion is just conjecture. Is it many species with just one agenda? Is it some kind of human psyops agenda? Do the aliens somehow tap into humans cultural biases and appear to them as they would expect to be seen? Is there indeed some sort of galactic federation or coalition having a combined agenda? Do they all buy their pencil-like paralysis rays from some sort of galactic Office Works stationary store?
Maybe they all worked out millenia ago that the human mind is easily fooled or controlled and that any method of calming us the fuck down while anal probing us is the way to go. Otherwise good old BillyBob might snap out of it and start twisting the heads off them and their insectoid looking mates.

Lol, that's better. The point I was trying to make is that despite having different physiological descriptions the narratives we get are often pretty similar. They are so similar that if you weren't told what species-type was allegedly involved in a given account you wouldn't be able to guess what it is. And that tells me that either all of this is the product of a collective delusion we've chosen to weave or that the entities themselves are related in some way. After all, if you were kidnapped by an aardvark one day and a salamander the next shouldn't the two experiences be different? But when it comes to nordics and greys or reptilians and mantises the differences seem to be skin deep.

And as far as the cultural possibility goes perhaps its mostly an issue of laziness. If we're going to have 101 different descriptions of visitors maybe people find it too tiresome to invent 101 different personality types to go along with them. Easier for consistency's sake to keep using the same behavior profile over and over again. Sure, we get slight variations here and there. I've heard, for example, that the reptilians are supposed to be a little more aggressive. Well geez, so you're telling me that the only difference between two different species separated by light years is some aggression but all of the other personality traits are basically the same? Please, it needs to be better than that. Then you've got the eyes. Over and over again I hear, "The eyes are the most striking feature." Doesn't matter if they're talking about greys, about lizards, about nordics, etc. It's always the same thing. Either these so-called different species are in the same group, the same way cats and dogs are in the same Earthly mammals group, or this stuff is fiction in great need of additional detail. And remember, humans are in that same Earthly mammals group with cats and dogs. And look at how much separates us. If we're being visited by multiple species from multiple star systems than the narratives should be widely varied.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Lol, that's better. The point I was trying to make is that despite having different physiological descriptions the narratives we get are often pretty similar. They are so similar that if you weren't told what species-type was allegedly involved in a given account you wouldn't be able to guess what it is. And that tells me that either all of this is the product of a collective delusion we've chosen to weave or that the entities themselves are related in some way. After all, if you were kidnapped by an aardvark one day and a salamander the next shouldn't the two experiences be different? But when it comes to nordics and greys or reptilians and mantises the differences seem to be only skin deep.

Good point. There does seem to be differing agendas though. Interacting sexually, seemingly to reproduce hybrid types. Experiments, removing organs, samples of tissue and organs. Anal probing, whatever the fuck they need to do that for. Maybe those ones are from the Proctor Galaxy. Then there are the intergalactic gardeners who seem to delight in taking soil samples.
All of the above could be said to be the study of the Human as such. Are they all the same race but in different guises? Or are they different races? You could be right though. They might be appearing to us as a collective delusion. It used to be fairies and goblins but now it is insectoids, grays and nordics. I'm skipping town if the Aardvarks start visiting.

 

[Ron Collins]

OK, but if they are different species from different planets with their own agendas then why do they all seem to be in possession of the same pencil-like paralysis ray (I've seen this same instrument described in hundreds of CE3s no matter what the entity type is)? Why are all of them telepathic? Why do they all maintain exactly the same code of secrecy? Why do we get similar reports of them floating in single file regardless of the species described? Why do we have reports of different types being seen together on the same vessels? And what's with the Yoda or Confucious-like dialog? If we really have 57 varieties of ETs from perhaps 57 different star systems visiting us then why doesn't any of them choose to speak in any manner other than haiku or something equally meaningless?

As to the differing agendas, the descriptions look different and the apparent process stays the same. Kind sounds like how you would run a test on perception and cognitive reasoning to me. So the alien/ID/crypto/whatever scientists that study human perception and reasoning dial in the parameters that best suit the study and keep the rest status quo as to no interject too much noise into the result set. I'm just sayin' that perhaps it is a bit more reminiscent of our scientific research methodologies. The case can be made that only one species is at play and they are manifesting in a different form as part of the experiment. It is just as plausible a conjecture and just as likely to be completely wrong.

---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 AM ----------

Possibly. But how would we know? Who knows what the motivation for another race or species visiting this planet is or would be. If you try to equate another or advanced civilization with a human mindset then maybe they would visit us, be it for curiosity, research, acquiring minerals or elements or other more nefarious reasons.

I could not agree more. However, I keep reading and hearing this human deprecating dribble about how uninteresting we are. I think that is just nonsense. Any level of sentience is interesting. To suggest otherwise is foolish. Unless I am missing something.

 

[ArchieBedford]

Intelligent debate, guys. No easy answers. At the end of the day, the CE3 & CE4 evidence is what it is: consistent, pervasive, global in scale, puzzling and weird. We can only guess at origins and motivation from the limits of our cultural paradigms and experience.

On the pervasive and universal humanoid forms reported, the reasons behind that might be in the area of the metaphysical - i.e. the spirit-soul complex which is at the core of each of us requires this type of organic body shape to inhabit and function, and it therefore appears everywhere in the universe adjusted to the local contitions of its arising (gravity, planetary rotation, strength of natural light present, temperatures) by the usual forces of evolution and environmental adaptivity. Either something like that (i.e. in simplistic terms we're all made in God's image), or we're all part of some huge genetic family with common ancestry, or a combo of all of the above.

The evidence of something visiting us, and the thousands of eyewitness accounts of non-human entities over centuries from every part of the world, are so pervasive that notions of delusion or that this is all the result of some internally generated psychological process really stretches credibility to a much greater degree than to just acknowledge that these reports must at some level be factual. It seems to me this must be the starting point.

On the temporary-paralysis ray thing reported so often, well wouldn't this be THE most useful tool if you were going out to visit any environment with potentially unpredictable or hostile natives? We already use such technology, though in a more primitive form: if we want to examine a large natural predator, we shoot it with a tranquiliser gun, do what we want to do to it, retire to a safe distance then the drug wears off and the creature is none the worse for the experiance. What kind of tranquiliser gun to temporarily immobilise a grizzly bear or a tiger could you develop with say five million years of technological evolution? Something close to what people report, maybe.

 

[Kandinsky]

I agree that it appears an illogical argument. It's that old line that's been trawled out for decades in smug certainty...'We're just ants to them.' Kaku is the most recent well-known name to use it. The thing is, people make a living studying ants. If ants could communicate, we'd be listening. There are TV shows devoted to anything that reproduces; bacteria, monkeys and blue whales. These shows are written by experts and watched by millions. The interest is right there.

Surely, any culture/civilisation that had the technology to make it all the way over here, would need to have had the 'enquiring mindset' to get to that point? Are we to accept that they suddenly stop being curious? Even invaders (Romans, Greeks, Mongols and us) have traditionally taken scholars, scientists and artists with them.

As for number two, anything's possible. We could be part of a black market trade route for all we know? It'd go some way to explaining a few things. In this field everyone's got to have a position or support a team. It's all DMT, ETH, IDH, black tech, misidentifications or whackos. Then there's the dichotomy of good versus bad aliens. Where does it all come from?

There's so much certainty and so little information to justify it.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...There's so much certainty and so little information to justify it.

As above/so below, @ Ron
@ kandi The only thing certain is that nothing is certain.

And I sense "IT" is infinitely more complicated than we could ever imagine, let alone describe.