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Aussie Scientist - Global Warming is New Religion

Free episodes:

bobheck

Disco still sucks.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Global+warming+religion+First+World+urban+elites/1835847/story.html

excerpt:

...
(Plimer, by the way, is also a vehement anti-creationist and has been hauled into court for disrupting meetings by religious leaders and evangelists who claim the Bible is literal truth.)


Plimer gets especially upset about carbon dioxide, its role in Earth's daily life and the supposed effects on climate of human manufacture of the gas. He says atmospheric carbon dioxide is now at the lowest levels it has been for 500 million years, and that atmospheric carbon dioxide is only 0.001 per cent of the total amount of the chemical held in the oceans, surface rocks, soils and various life forms. Indeed, Plimer says carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, but a plant food. Plants eat carbon dioxide and excrete oxygen. Human activity, he says, contributes only the tiniest fraction to even the atmospheric presence of carbon dioxide.


There is no problem with global warming, Plimer says repeatedly. He points out that for humans periods of global warming have been times of abundance when civilization made leaps forward. Ice ages, in contrast, have been times when human development slowed or even declined.


So global warming, says Plimer, is something humans should welcome and embrace as a harbinger of good times to come.
 
As Ive stated before, I have no idea who to believe as far as the global warming debate goes. Its either caused by humans - or its just natural planetary processes.

So I choose to believe nothing, while continuing to put recyclables in the recyclable bin.

As far as global warming as a religion... I think this guy could be onto something. Al Gore as the High Priest.
 
global warming is real, so is global cooling, global freezing, global extinctions, etc etc.

man made global warming is a scam.
 
Not a bad religion don't you think. If it makes poeple do something about pollution, Gaia's my Great Mother, and I have to clean her up!;)
 
I have zero problems with cleaning up the planet, reducing pollution, recycling, conservation, and good environmental stewardship. We all ought to do it.

I have serious problems with stifling our economies with cap & trade laws, reducing our 'carbon footprint' by enacting laws against plastic and paper bags, and creating a politically correct environment where we are made to feel guilty because we eat food and breathe oxygen.

I also have grave doubts about what we are told about energy consumption, including oil and 'Peak Oil.' I really don't know who is at fault here. I don't know if it is Big Oil or if it is rampant environmentalism. I'm usually wary of conspiracy theories, but if there is one, it's about this.

Although the science establishment would have you believe that global warming issue is settled, there are thousands of scientists who don't think so. As with any public controversy, 'scientists' is kind of a loaded term. Once a political ball gets rolling, 'scientists' are asked to, in effect, sign a petition and get on the bandwagon. Are all these 'scientists' climate experts? Of course not. They are composed of everything from medical doctors to paleontologists, chemists, biologists, physicists. They don't know any more about atmospheric science and climatology than most of us here do. This falls down to science teachers in the public schools. They are told to 'teach' Global Warming to our students, and so an entire generation gobbles it up as fact.

This is not the first time this has happened. During WWII 'scientists' got together to urge president Roosevelt to build the atomic bomb. The NAS officials got together and drafted a letter purported to be from Einstein to get the President's attention. It did. The same scientists then joked about what they would put in the next letter from Einstein to the President.

I think Global Warming is a fact. From a long term historical viewpoint we are still coming off an Ice Age. We don't want another one of those. It's in our best interests to warm the planet enough so that cycle will no longer repeat itself. Whether Global Warming is CAUSED by humanity is still suspect. Whether this is a BAD thing is also suspect. The news media is fond of telling us how many more will die if it gets warmer, but what they fail to tell you is how many people won't die from the cold.

There was quite a lengthy thread on Global Warming here a few months ago. It basically covered the issue from every perspective with enough links to keep any junkie happy. I don't think we need to repeat it. If I can find it I will edit this and add the link.

Duh! Right below the thread:

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/bbc-great-global-warming-swindle-t452.html

and

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/why-global-warming-hoaxii-t3931.html
 
I think Global Warming is a fact. From a long term historical viewpoint we are still coming off an Ice Age. We don't want another one of those. It's in our best interests to warm the planet enough so that cycle will no longer repeat itself. Whether Global Warming is CAUSED by humanity is still suspect. Whether this is a BAD thing is also suspect. The news media is fond of telling us how many more will die if it gets warmer, but what they fail to tell you is how many people won't die from the cold.

Thanks so much for that. I have been trying to tell people/friends/family such. But there seems to be this silly stigma that if you don't think humans are responsible for global warming (or climate change, cause it could actually be COOLING and headed for an ice age) that you want to pollute, have dirty air, and don't care about the planet. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I did not mean to restart dead arguments by posting that article. I just thought it was interesting.
 
I need to strongly object to conspiracy theories again.

If any body wanted to invalidate the evidence of global warming it would be the oil majors and it's extensive lobbying arm.
If the cause of global warming was natural phenomenon - then it could be argued beyond all litigation that production can continue - its back to business as usual and the oil corporations can reap in the margin from well to the retail outlets, without the tie up of CO2.

The striking fact contra to this mantra is that the oil companies have acknowledged that global warming effects and CO2 emissions are indeed linked to the environmental effects and instead of opposing this are actively supporting this -

BP marketing to BP Alternative Energy
Conoco Phillips calling for a legally binding emissions cap.
ExxonMobil calls for a carbon tax to tackle global warming
Shell marketing to Shell Renewable Energy

All these companies sit on the black stuff - and there assets are backed up on reserves of this stuff - I can't see a conspiracy here - its simple, these are the firms responsible for the majority of the problems - and if they don't clean up there act, there is going to be law suits brought against them - if there is evidence to the contrary that there is no link - surely it would be in there interest to provide that, and with the recent profits in the past (probably not today on $60/barrel), they could brief a strong and powerful case.

I think at the corporate level, they have been astute to not make the same mistake as the cigarette companies tried to do years back and pretend there was no link to cancer.

Some people still believe them....

I disagree with the motion that there is no link between industrial produced CO2 and global warming.

I am sure the government and corporations have acted a little late in its leadership on this issue - once again trying to please everybody and anybody. Now its got to convince the emerging economies how it regrets its errors and wish it could turn the clock back.

Another humiliating error by the westernised government. There will come a time when the rest of the world will no longer take us seriously.
 
IAnother humiliating error by the westernised government. There will come a time when the rest of the world will no longer take us seriously.

The rest of the world is trying mightily to do the same thing western governments have done, including raising the standard of living. You could say with some justification that the GW issue is just a way to keep them in poverty by denying them the ability or right to expand their economies. Do you think China is going to put up with this cap & trade nonsense? Not a chance, which is one reason why this is not going to work. See, for example: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0829_020829_summit5.html and http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK66835.htm

My conspiracy suspicion is with what we are told about oil supplies. All the while we're told we will run out, yet every year proven reserves go up. See: http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/oil/ Do you think all that is about improved technology? Or, just perhaps, could it be because oil is not made from dead dinosaurs after all: http://www.livescience.com/environment/051011_oil_origins.html

From the runet.edu link above:

* 1932 -- Federal Oil Conservation Board estimates 10 billion barrels of oil remain.
• 1944 -- Petroleum Administrator for War estimates 20 billion barrelsof oil remain.
• 1950 -- American Petroleum Institute says world oil reserves are at 100 billion barrels.
• 1956 -- M. King Hubbardpredicts peak in US oil production by 1970.
• 1966 - 1977 -- 19 billion barrels added to US reserves, most of which was from fields discovered before 1966. (As M.A. Adelman notes: "These fields were no gift of nature. They were a growth of knowledge, paid for by heavy investment.")
• 1973 -- Oil price spike; supply restrictions due to Midde Eastern politics.
• 1978 -- Petroleos de Venezuela announces estimated unconventional oil reserve figure for Orinoco heavy oil belt at between three and four trillion barrels. (More recent public estimates are in the one trillion range).
• 1979 -- Oil price spike; supply restrictions due to Midde Eastern politics.
• 1980 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 648 billion barrels
• 1993 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 999 billion barrels
• 2000 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 1016 billion barrels.

* 2009 -- 1243 billion barrels, or maybe its 1342: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html
 
I'm all for cleaning up polluted waterways, protecting species and forests and fisheries etc.. but I don't buy into the carbon thing because its a giant scam to soak the West. China India and Mexico see right through it and laugh their asses off..

"Carbon credits" give me a break.. more like "free money" for Gore and his ilk. You wanna spend billions on new solar cells or nuke plants or wind turbines.. fine. You wanna clean up the stream near a toxic battery plant.. fine.. You want to hire militia to protect gorilla sanctuaries - great! THAT"S real environmentalism.

But don't come talking to me about how guilty I should feel and to buy carbon credits and how I have foot the bill to world governments for my "carbon footprint" give me a break... THAT'S a new age religion.


IMO most of the global warming hoopla is a convenient marriage of anti-western/anti-humanistic sentiments from guilty western eco nuts and massively greedy mega corporations who see this as the next goldmine to exploit. Throw into the mix scientists who are funded by one source or another and who have their own world paradigms and ideologies that cloud 100 percent objectivity and the end result is cluster fuck too deep to sort out.. I don't trust anyone at the end of the day on this except my own eyes and observations.

And speaking of the global warming hysteria fad.. why do I never hear about something that could send the entire planet back into the stone age instantly and could happen tomorrow - namely a hefty meteor hitting us.. Its not like it hasnt happened before, and what with Jupiter just getting nailed.. why is there no serious research into dealing with that threat.. oh wait... never mind, it doesn't involve ridding ourselves of guilt for being so prosperous and there is no money to be made off it by "green" companies..
 
This wasn't in the previous threads becuase it is a relatively new development. The text below the link was sent to me by a friend. I think he probably copied it and I don't know the original author.

http://carlineconomics.googlepages.com/Endangermentcommentsv7b1.pdf

Dr. Alan Carlin (http://carlineconomics.googlepages.com/), an employee of the EPA since 1971, has made public his “Comments on Draft Technical Support Document for Endangerment Analysis for Greenhouse Gas Emissions under the Clean Air Act” (PDF link above) that an EPA director blocked because it was inconvenient to their pre-determined outcome. Carlin’s study casts down upon almost every aspect of global warming alarmism and on the EPA’s “endangerment finding” regarding carbon dioxide.

The document is about 100 pages long and most of you won’t have time to read it. Fortunately, Dr. Carlin included an excellent executive summary which I’ll further condense for you here:

In the study’s preface, Dr. Carlin says that the EPA is relying on outside sources instead of doing their own research, that the outside source material is out of date and that a lot of new research has occurred since its creation, and that current data “are sufficiently at variance with those of the IPCC (the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), CCSP (the US Climate Change Science Program), and the Draft TSD (technical supporting documentation for their finding that CO2 presents a danger)” to show that the EPA “has not critically reviewed the findings by these other groups.”

Dr. Carlin also shreds the concept of a “consensus” on the issue, noting that “What is actually noteworthy about this effort is not the relative apparent scientific shine of the two sides but rather the relative ease with which major holes have been found in the GHG/CO2/AGW argument….The issue is rather whether the GHG/CO2/AGW hypothesis meets the ultimate scientific test—conformance with real world data. What these comments show is that it is this ultimate test that the hypothesis fails; this is why EPA needs to carefully reexamine the science behind global warming before proposing an endangerment finding.” (page iv)

In his executive summary (beginning page v), Carlin’s criticism of anthropogenic global warming theory is devastating: He notes that the hypothesis that greenhouse gases and CO2 are causing warming “fails a number of critical comparisons with available observable data. Any one of these failings should be enough to invalidate the hypothesis; the breadth of these failings leaves no other possible conclusion based on current data. As Feynman (1975) has said failure to conform to real world data makes it necessary from a scientific viewpoint to revise the hypothesis or abandon it… Unfortunately this has not happened in the global warming debate, but needs to if an accurate finding concerning endangerment is to be made.”

These data include “Lack of observed upper tropospheric heating in the tropics”, “Lack of observed constant humidity levels, a very important assumption of all the IPCC models”, “no appreciable temperature increases during the critical period 1978-1997” in satellite measurements, no inclusion of ocean oscillations in IPCC models, no inclusion of “indirect solar variability” in IPCC models, no allowance for the possibility of other not as yet understood natural phenomena, and the strong possibility that surface temperature data “may have been hopelessly corrupted by the urban heat island effect and other problems (which is why the EPA’s draft endangerment finding ignores satellite data which does not fit their distinctly political rather than scientific goal.)

Carlin then goes on to take apart the last IPCC report, upon which most of the EPA’s TSD is based, noting that:

• Global temperatures have declined for more than a decade despite atmospheric CO2 levels increasing,

• New research shows the IPCC was wrong in predicting more frequent and intense hurricanes due to AGW (man-made global warming),

• There is no evidence that Greenland is melting despite IPCC predictions,

• The recent recession has cut greenhouse gas emissions, but the draft TSD doesn’t mention it,

• New research shows that the climate probably operates with negative feedback rather than the positive feedback which IPCC models assume, and

• New research suggests the IPCC “used faulty solar data” to claim that the sun was not the cause of global temperature variability.
After taking apart the IPCC and TSD, Carlin offers his own thoughts on the issue (starting on page vii):

• The best explanations for global temperature fluctuations appear to be solar cycles

• Sunspots also appear to have an impact, though the way it works isn’t understood

“Changes in greenhouse gas concentrations appear to have so little effect that it is difficult to find any effect in the satellite temperature record, which started in 1978.”

• Surface temperature measurements are suspect because they are so different from the satellite record, so “it appears even more unlikely that GHGs have as much of an effect on measured surface temperatures as claimed”

• “Hence it is not reasonable to conclude that there is any endangerment from changes in GHG levels based on the satellite record, since almost all the fluctuations appear to be due to natural causes and not human-caused pollution as defined by the Clean Air Act.”
I’ll quote the conclusion of Dr. Carlin’s executive summary in its entirety:
These inconsistencies between the TSD analysis and scientific observations are so important and sufficiently abstruse that in my view EPA needs to make an independent analysis of the science of global warming rather than adopting the conclusions of the IPCC and CCSP without much more careful and independent EPA staff review than is evidenced by the Draft TSP. Adopting the scientific conclusions of an outside group such as the IPCC or CCSP without thorough review by EPA is not in the EPA tradition anyway, and there seems to be little reason to change the tradition in this case. If their conclusions should be incorrect and EPA acts on them, it is EPA that will be blamed for inadequate research and understanding and reaching a possibly inaccurate determination of endangerment. Given the downward trend in temperatures since 1998 (which some think will continue until about 2030 given the 60 year cycle described in Section 2) there is no particular reason to rush into decisions based on a scientific hypothesis that does not appear to explain much of the available data.

Finally, there is an obvious logical problem posed by steadily increasing US health and welfare measures and the alleged endangerment of health and welfare discussed in this draft TSD during a period of rapid rise in at least CO2 ambient levels. This discontinuity either needs to be carefully explained in the draft TSD or the conclusions changed.
The rest of Carlin’s document lays out the science behind his comments and conclusions. Here’s a taste:
A major cause for concern with regard to the Enhanced Greenhouse Effect espoused by the IPCC is that a crucial implied assumption may not be valid based on real world data. The IPCC models imply that global relative humidity is a constant as a result of various assumptions about evaporation and participation. This appears not to be the case, however, as shown in the following graph. Stockwell (2008) provides a discussion of the pros and cons for EGE and concludes that it is doubtful. Ref: http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-gcms/
Gregory and others say that the IPCC models all assume that global relative humidity is a constant.2 I note that this assumption would appear to imply their result since increases in temperature increase the amount of water vapor that the atmosphere can hold. This in turn results in an increased GHG warming effect, and so on and on, just as the IPCC concluded. Gregory puts it this way:
There is no physics in support of this assumption, and no way to calculate its value from first principles. This assumption means that if temperatures increase for any reason, the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere increases. But water vapor is the most important greenhouse gas, so the GHE becomes stronger and temperatures increase more. The current theory does not determine this – it is only an assumption. If this assumption is only slightly wrong, it completely changes the expected response of increasing CO2 because water vapour is such a dominant greenhouse gas.
So if this arbitrary assumption does not hold, then there is no positive feedback effect. If accurate, the chart below appears to support the anti-AGW case.
On pages 54-55, Carlin also shows an interesting chart of various climate-related issues, the prediction based on the “CO2 Hypothesis”, the prediction based on the “Sun/Cosmic Ray Hypothesis”, the actual data, and which hypothesis offers the best explanation. In NONE of the 7 issues does the current alarmist theory about CO2 fit the data.

On pages 58-59, Carlin notes that the IPCC’s model predicts a “hot spot” over the tropics which is “entirely absent from the observational record. This shows that most of the global temperature change cannot be attributed to increasing CO2 concentrations.” Just as interesting as the data is the way the EPA dealt with this rather conclusive evidence against their pre-determined position: “The Draft TSD indeed notes that the lack of heating in the tropical troposphere is a problem but says that the data has been questioned. While this is being sorted out or if it is never sorted out, the prudent thing to do is to assume that the data is correct and therefore that the hypothesis is invalid until shown otherwise by new and better science. Not to do so is to take a major risk since otherwise very expensive remediation actions may be taken on the basis of a claim that data is questionable when it may indeed be correct.”

It’s no surprise that the EPA went out of their way to quash Dr. Carlin’s document. The fact that they did so is backfiring on them, however, and bringing far more attention to Carlin’s criticism than it might otherwise have received.

It’s a double-bonus for those of us who recognize “global warming” as the hoax and anti-capitalist power grab that it is: Not only is the “science” now being challenged by an extremely credible source from within the EPA, but the blatantly political motivation behind the Cult of AGW has been amply demonstrated by their telling Dr. Carlin to shut up and go work on other things.

And don’t forget, the discredited IPCC models are the claimed basis for the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill which will be the single most devastating piece of legislation ever aimed at our economy. Waxman and Markey make Smoot and Hawley look like pikers. Make sure your Senators know that you know of Dr. Carlin’s comments and that, in the immortal words of Pete Townshend, we “won’t get fooled again.”
 
I thought some of you might be interested in this link: http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ which is an animated view of the 'peopling of the world' from 150,000 years ago until today. Some of its claims are a little suspect. The 'Out of Africa' theory is encountering some difficulty these days, but I wanted you to see what happens when an Ice Age asserts itself on the Earth. If you think Global Warming is bad, just wait until you see what an Ice Age can do.
 
• 1979 -- Oil price spike; supply restrictions due to Midde Eastern politics.
• 1980 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 648 billion barrels
• 1993 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 999 billion barrels
• 2000 -- Remaining proven oil reserves put at 1016 billion barrels.

* 2009 -- 1243 billion barrels, or maybe its 1342: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html

Schuyler - your a serious guy - and you deserve a serious answer,

What you have quoted here is reserves which is based on supply - something you have neglected is the demand which has increased probably by a factor greater than that of supply.

Once we can correlate refinery capacity and output against these figures we should be able to decide whether the supply:demand is becoming less (and would back up peak oil) -and hopefully allay those conspiracy fears.

I have some data on this somewhere - I will come back with a complete answer.

Then after this, I will examine the provocative analysis provided by Dr Carlin - hopefully it can stand the robustness of detail that I will attempt to throw at it.
 
Schuyler - your a serious guy - and you deserve a serious answer,

What you have quoted here is reserves which is based on supply - something you have neglected is the demand which has increased probably by a factor greater than that of supply.

Once we can correlate refinery capacity and output against these figures we should be able to decide whether the supply:demand is becoming less (and would back up peak oil) -and hopefully allay those conspiracy fears.

I have some data on this somewhere - I will come back with a complete answer.

Then after this, I will examine the provocative analysis provided by Dr Carlin - hopefully it can stand the robustness of detail that I will attempt to throw at it.

His answer has nothing to do with demand. What he is stating is that, if oil is truly a depletable, non-renewable resource, then why are proven reserves (that means 90% certainty of being recoverable -- still in the ground) keep going up each year?

If we have been pumping it out like crazy for almost 100 years now, and proven reserves keep going up, something is awry in the fossil fuel argument. The fact that demand has also been increasing and proven reserves keep rising lends strength to abiotic oil theories.

And add to that the fact that they found more oil on Titan than is on earth. That increases exponentially the possibility that oil is on many worlds/moons. Most of which we can be reasonably certain did not have dinosaurs roaming on them eons ago.
 
What you have quoted here is reserves which is based on supply - something you have neglected is the demand which has increased probably by a factor greater than that of supply.

True, but the point is no one seems to be able to tell what the reserves really are, and that number keeps going up. These are all 'expert estimates.' One other issue I also neglected is that as the price of oil rises, it becomes economically viable to go after oil that is more expensive to extract. One good example of this is oil shales, with an estmated 200 year supply. (Naturally, I expect this estimate is wrong, too. It may be more.)

Another issue is simply political. If we are prevented from going after the ample supplies in ANWAR and off the coast, for example, then this artificially limits the supply of oil. The environmental impact arguments are nonsense, really, and appeal to emotion. The area where some want to drill in Alaska is a wasteland; the pictures they show of a pristine wilderness are hundreds of miles away. The Caribou herd around the first pipeline has grown vastly in numbers. Perhaps the warm oil in the pipes encourages Rheindeer intimacy.

Having voiced my doubts about oil supplies and origins, I still feel we need to do everything we can to produce alternative fuel vehicles (I, myself, use 100% biodiesel during the summer months, made from soy beans. New techniques using algae promise much greater production at $50 a barrell that do not affect feed crops or prices.). It seems like every day I'm reading of a new breakthrough in solar panel technology or wind power production.

In some ways civilizationis a race between disaster and technology. (The original quote from H.G. Wells was 'disaster and education.')
 
True, but the point is no one seems to be able to tell what the reserves really are, and that number keeps going up. These are all 'expert estimates.' One other issue I also neglected is that as the price of oil rises, it becomes economically viable to go after oil that is more expensive to extract. One good example of this is oil shales, with an estmated 200 year supply. (Naturally, I expect this estimate is wrong, too. It may be more.)


Your absolutely right, oil reserves will increase - and there is a tremendous amount of capital to develop an increase in discovering these - a massive reserve was discovered off brazil a couple of months ago.

But a typical refinery is always consuming these reserves at a rate of 180,000 barrels per day this is probably about 54 million barrels a year (I have adjusted very conservativey for off line production here - so its not 66).

Multiply this by refining capacity worldwide and you will see the extent of this depletion (I will try to develop this - when I have consolidated the true numbers - but your pushing us).

A typical oil shale - does appear to have a lifetime of 200 years, maybe. But this is expected - oil shale contains a high degree of contaminants - particulary corrosive, and refining capacity has to blend this at low amplitudes - it needs to mitigate effects upsteam.

As I have said, I will develop this argument more succintly - but stop rushing us with the curveball's.

I appreciate your concern, and totally respect your argument - I will deal with this at my earliest convienience.
 
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