Bill Nye and UFO Discussions

[Goggs Mackay]

@Angelo - well everyone knows you are quite sceptical! At least Paracast listeners at any rate! Perhaps his name has crossed my brain at some point or other but he is certainly not a TV or media personality in Scotland, where I am.
From the little I heard on the video I get the impression he is not just in the sceptical 'team' as Tyder001 put it. Maybe I haven't seen enough of him but he does not seem in the same camp as Bill Nye in that it seems Shermer has reasons for thinking the way he does while Mr Nye is one of those who has made up his mind already and therefore anything conflicting with his viewpoint is automatically wrong even if all evidence points otherwise.
I just dont get Bill Nye. I would 'get' Bill Nye if either he is a paid dis-information agent, or if he is some sort of religious fundamentalist as both of these things have good reasons (their good reasons) for not wanting to examine evidence without prejudice. But does he not profess to be some sort of scientist, or at least have a science background - as I do - which gives him supposedly a modicum of credibility to be able to 'debate' topics such as Ufology? Quick people will notice 'debate' was in inverted commas because surely even in debating proper an opponent should still be able to be persuaded by a good arguement?
From what I've seen of 'Bill Nye, the pseudo-science guy' - I like that - I don't think any evidence would be enough to persuade him of even the possibility of ET visitation. I saw him 'debating' officers etc involved in the UFO/nuclear weapons incidents and he kept saying 'that it is a great leap to go from a sighted orange light in the sky to aliens visiting from another solar system'.
The really funny thing is that on that exact point he was quite correct - seeing a UFO, even at close range does not equate to knowing said UFO is alien in origin. The point is though, that none of the guests on this particular episode of Larry King mentioned the word 'alien' once. Not once! All they did was report that something unusual was seen in the sky that could not be readily identified. Whilst these sightings were occuring, weird things were happening with their minuteman missiles and they merely reported that this seemed an interesting coincidence, worthy of further investigation.
While I think maybe one of the guests once picked Mr Nye up on this point about debunkers getting confused with what UFO actually means - it was a bit neglectful of them not to press the point.
Deliberately obfuscating the issue and evidence at hand with claims of 'aliens in flying saucers' is a very clever tactic routinely employed by official debunkerdom (what a great word!) debunkerdom, debunkerdom, debunkerdom......sorry, getting carried away!
Many reports of unusual phenomena in the sky are tainted by news anchormen and correspondents bringing in the 'alien' to the discussion. Many times the people reporting what they saw do not mention aliens and often are not even thinking of that themselves but still, you can guarrantee that someone on the sceptic side will introduce 'aliens' into the mix where before there were none. By constantly associating every unexplainable event or object reported in the sky, many are put off of taking a more active interest in trying to explain the cause of whatever phenomena was reported.
You cannot blame the average guy on the street - who has no active interest in UFO's - for getting turned away from thinking about these very varied and widely reported phenomena
because in his mind, it is all associated with 'little green men' and forever will be, as long as people like Bill Nye deliberately muddy the water and create connections where they do not actually exist.
HERE IS AN EXPERIMENT THAT COULD BE CARRIED OUT:

What if the next time Bill Nye is invited onto a Larry King-type show as the resident sceptic to debate UFO's the following must be agreed upon by both parties:
1. Neither party will use the words 'alien, grey, E.T, flying saucers, UFO'.
2. Both parties will confine all discussion to events in Earths' atmosphere.
3. Neither party will mention other solar systems or galaxies.

Maybe, just maybe with such a set of conditions, Mr Nye and his type would struggle a little trying to make their opponents look silly. He might not be able to manage his usual most condescending smile that appears to me to be saying 'I am soooo right. I love that I am sooo right. You guys are deluded.' You get the picture.
Would I be letting personal feelings cloud my judgement if I were to say that 'Bill Nye and his crazy bow-tie' happens to have one the THE most punchable faces on television? I am not a violent person but even I have to resist the urge to mentally break his nose!!

gordon.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I decided to move this post to its own thread because it's interesting enough to warrant its own thread.

You seem to try to vilify Bill Nye just because he doesn't agree with your view, and that's okay. I know the debate you're referring too, and I'd have to say that Robert Hastings was a lot worse than Bill Nye, but that's just my opinion. All Bill Nye is trying to say is that you can't jump to the conclusion that these objects are of alien origin. There is no actual evidence of that, only speculation. It's interesting speculation, that's for sure, but we don't know for a fact.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I decided to move this post to its own thread because it's interesting enough to warrant its own thread.

You seem to try to vilify Bill Nye just because he doesn't agree with your view, and that's okay. I know the debate you're referring too, and I'd have to say that Robert Hastings was a lot worse than Bill Nye, but that's just my opinion. All Bill Nye is trying to say is that you can't jump to the conclusion that these objects are of alien origin. There is no actual evidence of that, only speculation. It's interesting speculation, that's for sure, but we don't know for a fact.

Angelo, I think you missed my point?
I completely agree that it would be a great leap to jump to conclusions about alien origin from pretty much most UFO sightings. That is correct in my opinion and I think that is also the opinion of the guests on the show too. We are all in agreement!
However, what I was trying to say was that it was Bill Nye who brought up talk of Alien origins, not anyone else. The show was about UFO's. Not aliens, which can be two completely different things. Too many people automatically associate the term 'UFO' with E.T when they may have no link whatsoever.
'UFO' just means something flying - an object that cannot be readily identified. In itself it need have NOTHING to do with the ETH.
I don't believe any of the ex-military guests had any agenda about pushing a belief in alien life into the discussion. All they were concerned about was the fact that during some unexplained malfunctions of nuclear missiles, there were also some unexplained lights in the sky close to the ground near the base. They were not even insisting that the two things were connected, they were pointing out that the two things happened close together in regards to time and space. Considering both seperate events are unusual anyway, for them to happen geographically so close together at the same time, that alone mathematically increases the odds against it happening astronomically!
So we have two very rare events. Two very rare events happening right next to eachother and happening at the same time. It is logical to at least consider the two events are related. That is the way the police would look at it if investigating a crime for instance, is it not?
Bearing in mind that all these missiles have redundancy and are all completely autonomous, the guests were just baffled as to how as many as TEN of these INDEPENDENTLY POWERED AND CIRCUITED SYSTEMS could go down near-simultaneously? That in itself would be cause for concern and most definitely investigation.
The fact that there were some strange objects apparently flying very close to these missile systems while they underwent their once-in-a-lifetime strange failure just adds to what was already, without question, something of extreme DEFENCE SIGNIFICANCE.
Are you still with me in terms of the fact I HAVE NOT BROUGHT ALIEN LIFE INTO THE TALE AT ALL. There is absolutely zero aspects to this story so far that point to anything to do with extra-terrestrial life. I am making no connection with alien life and this story whatsoever.
Neither did the ex-military guests.
It was Bill Nye who made the comment about it being a leap to go to alien life. But he was the only one mentioning it? So why did he mention it, when the guests did not? I contend that rather than confront straight on what was by any account a strange occurence, he chose to inject talk of alien life to ridicule the whole event. But why should he want to do that? Is it not something of the gravest moment - nuclear weapons malfunctioning on a large scale? It is not funny, it is not light-hearted, it is deadly serious and he is the one bringing silliness into the discussion with HIS talk of aliens.
I have never seen a UFO nor an alien. I believe there must be life elsewhere in the universe but I am not sure any of that life is visiting us here right now. I do think however there are objects and phenomena in our skies that are as yet, unexplained. The US military admitted it studied the topic publicly for over 20 years, so it is obvious the US military thought there was something to investigate.
The difference between myself and Bill Nye is that he does not seem to leave any room whatsoever for any explanation of UFO's that does not fall into easily categories that are readily explainable.
I realise that you are sceptical, you make no secret of that and I have complete respect for that point of view, especially because hard evidence is few and far between and the topic demands hard evidence before anyone should jump to conclusions.
All that being well and good, I get the feeling you have a blind spot in regards to this issue on the Larry King show we are discussing.
Surely you see that Bill Nye is the only person who even mentioning Aliens? So why is he bringing up something into a discussion that he does not believe there is evidence for but then making it sound like it is the other participants who have brought it up when they did not, and had no intention of doing so?
The only answer to that conundrum I can come up with is that Bill Nye is deliberately bringing alien life into the discussion to muddy the debate about 'objects that fly in the sky that are hard to readily identify'.
I am not anti-sceptic. I am sceptical. I am no 'true believer'. I need to see good evidence before I will believe anything.
I just don't understand why a man who seems to be intelligent (Bill Nye) is intent on bringing the topic of alien life visiting our planet into a discussion that did not contain that idea, nor did it need it in any way, shape or form?
Please, please tell me if I have missed something and am talking rubbish. I will be the first to admit I made a mistake If so?
gordon