Black space programme?

[freemars2259]

Anyone got any thoughts on Alternative 3, I know it is fake and was made as an April fools joke, but what about the ideas in it, a secret American-Soviet space programme that had already established bases on the moon and sent men to Mars by the 1970s, with the space race serving as a distraction to the general population. Here is a link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1444595672097969035&q=alternative+3&total=3506&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3


Don't know how much of this can be believed myself, but Richard Dolan has said he believes that there may be a secret American space Programme and that this could explain at least where some of the black budget billions have gone to, it could also explain some of UFOs seen by astronauts in space.

Here is a link to an article about the the black budget:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0209/S00126.htm

What do people think?

 

[Don Keyhoe-Ti]

Like this?

 

[freemars2259]

Like this?

funny stuff, but does anyone have any serious thoughts to share.

 

[schticknz]

Anyone got any thoughts on Alternative 3, I know it is fake and was made as an April fools joke, but what about the ideas in it, a secret American-Soviet space programme that had already established bases on the moon and sent men to Mars by the 1970s, with the space race serving as a distraction to the general population. Here is a link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1444595672097969035&q=alternative+3&total=3506&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3


Don't know how much of this can be believed myself, but Richard Dolan has said he believes that there may be a secret American space Programme and that this could explain at least where some of the black budget billions have gone to, it could also explain some of UFOs seen by astronauts in space.

Here is a link to an article about the the black budget:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0209/S00126.htm

What do people think?

Well Gary McKinnon apparently came across some evidence for a black budget space programme when he got into places he wasn't supposed to be in several years ago. I've yet to see any real evidence though of it but with all the money that has disappeared from the US coffers (whats the number $2.3 Trillion or something) ... well anything is possible.

Oh and use robtex.com to look at the names of servers that are used by Air Force Bases, Nasa, and the such like in the US ... and names such as "Neelix" appear ... which shows they have a sense of humour at least if not sci-fi aspirations.

[Oh my god ... and i've just noticed the ice warrior :-D ... ooo wee ooo ... :-D]

 

[freemars2259]

Perhaps I should note that we wouldn't need super advanced technology like Gary McKinnon was looking for to put human bases in space and send men to Mars, just lots of money which the black budget shows us the US Government have. In "High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space" Gerald K. O'Neill mapped out a straightforward, manifestly doable path to putting humans into space permanently and sustainably, using 1970s material and current-day know-how, and "The Case for Mars" by Robert Zubrin which outlines NASA's Mars Direct Plan, explaining the possibilities of Martian travel and the rationale for colonizing and terraforming the red planet, shows how we have had the technology to go to Mars and stay there for many years.

Anymore thoughts?

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Well, if Ben Rich literally meant that "we now have the technology to take ET home," and if he was telling the truth in those letters he wrote -- I think it is probable that there is a secret space program, perhaps operating at a classified level within several compartments of The Air Force Space Command. Wouldn't surprise me if we've been to Mars and every other planet in our solar system already, with lots of pictures and video footage, soil samples, and perhaps even bases. Imagine how the public would react to that: sorry kiddies, NASA was just a smokescreen.

As for Gary McKinnon, well I have a hard time believing his story. It's all very implausible. He did it on a 56k modem? Couldn't get pictures because they booted him off right when he tried?

Everybody else has got one now, so I'll just put it in my gray basket, too.

 

[freemars2259]

Here is a a very interesting extract from an article about secret military astronauts from the New York Times Published August 7th 1989:

"When NASA lobbied the White House for the current shuttle in the late 1960's and early 1970's, the Air Force grudgingly joined the project, attracted by the idea but wary of yielding its pre-eminence in space to civilians. To White House budget planners, the costly civilian shuttle program made economic sense only if it launched all American space payloads.

In the late 1970's, amid great secrecy, the military began building a coast-to-coast organization to take advantage of the civilian shuttles to launch top-secret payloads like spy and early-warning satellites.

In 1979, the Air Force Space Division in Los Angeles founded the Manned Spaceflight Engineer Program, an elite corps of military astronauts that was to specialize in deploying top-secret payloads. Mr. Cassutt said corps members were told they would fly in space at least once. The secret program, he added, eventually trained 32 engineers and had an annual budget of about $4 million.

Its first member to ride the shuttle, Maj. Gary E. Payton, did so on Jan. 24, 1985. His name was made public but his role played down. Major Payton helped deploy what was believed to be an electronic intelligence-gathering satellite. A colleague, Maj. William A. Pailes, flew a shuttle into space on Oct. 4, 1985."

Here is a link to the whole article:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFD8173EF934A3575BC0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

 

[Don Keyhoe-Ti]

Honestly, my hunch is this is exactly what they're doing, but I can't recall any evidence. Maybe it's just what I would do if I were them.

 

[Michael L.]

Oh and use robtex.com to look at the names of servers that are used by Air Force Bases, Nasa, and the such like in the US ... and names such as "Neelix" appear ... which shows they have a sense of humour at least if not sci-fi aspirations.

Are you sure that it doesn't just prove that computer nerds are computer nerds even if they are working for the USAF or NASA?

 

[freemars2259]

Here is a a very interesting extract from an article about secret military astronauts from the New York Times Published August 7th 1989:

"When NASA lobbied the White House for the current shuttle in the late 1960's and early 1970's, the Air Force grudgingly joined the project, attracted by the idea but wary of yielding its pre-eminence in space to civilians. To White House budget planners, the costly civilian shuttle program made economic sense only if it launched all American space payloads.

In the late 1970's, amid great secrecy, the military began building a coast-to-coast organization to take advantage of the civilian shuttles to launch top-secret payloads like spy and early-warning satellites.

In 1979, the Air Force Space Division in Los Angeles founded the Manned Spaceflight Engineer Program, an elite corps of military astronauts that was to specialize in deploying top-secret payloads. Mr. Cassutt said corps members were told they would fly in space at least once. The secret program, he added, eventually trained 32 engineers and had an annual budget of about $4 million.

Its first member to ride the shuttle, Maj. Gary E. Payton, did so on Jan. 24, 1985. His name was made public but his role played down. Major Payton helped deploy what was believed to be an electronic intelligence-gathering satellite. A colleague, Maj. William A. Pailes, flew a shuttle into space on Oct. 4, 1985."

Here is a link to the whole article:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFD8173EF934A3575BC0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Any thoughts about the above.

 

[schticknz]

Oh and use robtex.com to look at the names of servers that are used by Air Force Bases, Nasa, and the such like in the US ... and names such as "Neelix" appear ... which shows they have a sense of humour at least if not sci-fi aspirations.

Are you sure that it doesn't just prove that computer nerds are computer nerds even if they are working for the USAF or NASA?

Oh yeah ... totally . If you dig deep enough there are all sorts of funny server names ... geeks are geeks are geeks are geeks and there's nothing you can do to stop it ... not even putting them into the Air Force or Nasa can stop the spread of geekdom.

 

[freemars2259]

Here is a a very interesting extract from an article about secret military astronauts from the New York Times Published August 7th 1989:

"When NASA lobbied the White House for the current shuttle in the late 1960's and early 1970's, the Air Force grudgingly joined the project, attracted by the idea but wary of yielding its pre-eminence in space to civilians. To White House budget planners, the costly civilian shuttle program made economic sense only if it launched all American space payloads.

In the late 1970's, amid great secrecy, the military began building a coast-to-coast organization to take advantage of the civilian shuttles to launch top-secret payloads like spy and early-warning satellites.

In 1979, the Air Force Space Division in Los Angeles founded the Manned Spaceflight Engineer Program, an elite corps of military astronauts that was to specialize in deploying top-secret payloads. Mr. Cassutt said corps members were told they would fly in space at least once. The secret program, he added, eventually trained 32 engineers and had an annual budget of about $4 million.

Its first member to ride the shuttle, Maj. Gary E. Payton, did so on Jan. 24, 1985. His name was made public but his role played down. Major Payton helped deploy what was believed to be an electronic intelligence-gathering satellite. A colleague, Maj. William A. Pailes, flew a shuttle into space on Oct. 4, 1985."

Here is a link to the whole article:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFD8173EF934A3575BC0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Any thoughts about the above, I mean people want proof well here it is in black and white from a reliable source, a little glimpse of the secret space program.

 

[Poi]

I found it a confirmation. Been listening to Catherine Austin Fitts on Coast with Ian. She was basically fired from her post within the first Bush Administration (I think that's the right one) for wanting to explore black budget money once she discovered missing trillions. Bad juju, that.

We know from history that projects for defense were sometimes announced publicly. Some of those projects were then declared not worthy of further study and they actually just went "black" rather than being abandoned. If I'm not mistaken, the SR71 is an example of this, but my memory is fuzzy on it so who knows.

Anyway, I would lump a black space program under defense myself. All black projects we've heard of seem to be of a defensive posture so it's not hard for me to believe. Guess one could turn that around and call them offensive too, but that's not really pertinent because we were thinking defensively during the Cold War.

I believe we currently have a black space program and it explains why we seemed to have abandoned NASA. I'm also thinking the Navy has a large part to do with covert programs and information gathering toward that end. What better place to hide space related intelligence and exploration than a seafaring defense industry? Go Navy.

 

[tommyball]

This Secret Space Program seems to be Linda Moulton Howe's top report right now. She's recently been on Dreamland and C2C reporting on it. She quotes the NY Times article on her earthfiles site.

Now I tend to be very skeptical of anything she reports on (among other things, she really followed that whole CARET drone thing for a while), but you really cannot argue with that NY Times article.

Another intriguing point to all of this is that Richard Dolan mentioned the secret soace program during his lecture at the 200 X-Conference and he specifically pointed out that same NY Times article.

This might be a good topic for an upcoming Paracast episode.

-todd.

 

[freemars2259]

I think I should give Richard Dolan the credit for me knowing about the article, I have the dvd of his lecture at the 2007 x-conference, you can get it from his site just email Karyn Dolan his wife and she will tell you how to get the dvd. Here is a link to the site:

http://keyholepublishing.com/Karyn%20Dolan.htm

Perhaps a Richard Dolan interview about only the black space program would be a good idea.

 

[spookyparadigm]

I'd bet that what there is is smaller and less impressive than what most would guess. Jay Rockefeller and others made noise a couple of years ago about what might be a black network of surveillance or ASAT satellites, but if there was ever a manned component, I'll bet you it went away by the 1980s.

I think one of the great enduring myths of post-WWII America is that its military, government, etc. are even more powerful than they publically let one. I think this is a lie or at best a misbegotten wish. I don't subscribe to the incompetence view ("How could they keep a secret if they can't get the mail here on time?"), that's simplistic and irrelevant. Instead, I think that while at one point the military and its industrial friends could do lots of things secretly and impressively, the corruption in American society has made this all but impossible since the 1970s. It's not a matter of being able to do such things, but even bothering to when there is so much money to steal.

There is no secret manned space program because 1) there is no reason for its existence and 2) the contractors and their friends get paid whether or not the projects end up working.

 

[Poi]

Certainly worth thinking about spooky, given the current trend for loose money in Iraq.