Book: "UFOs" by Leslie Kean

[Tyger]

I have looked about but do not see a section for a discussion for books (except the reviews) so I am plunking this here.

Following a mention by Jimi H (thank you, Jimi) I wound up toodling over to Amazon and bought myself a copy of "UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On The Record" by Leslie Kean. I received it last week and have been reading it in between work related study and summer fun and frolic.

I'd say this comment of Ms Kean's sums up my approach to the subject, too: "I'm not a 'believer' in anything except respect for the facts, even when they don't conform to our established worldview. The UFO issue is so unorthodox that even a straightforward, rational approach can seem as though it's crossed a line into questionable territory. I've done my best to keep this information clear, logical and well-documented."

For me it doesn't help when the subject is linked with the 'paranormal'. It's one reason the decision of the LA MUFON to become a paranormal research group very disappointing - and I am aware that I say that on the Paracast chat site. That little factoid slipped past me because I came here via a link on ufowatchdog. Oh well - I am happily here - though a Book Section would be very nice.

So I am just starting this book - at the very beginning and it's going to be a while before I get through it since my current reading is more historical and science based due to my work. However, I would be very interested in a conversation about this book. I am so far very intrigued.

The book was published in 2010 - pretty recent - but is there anything that is in the book that has since been proven to be bogus? Many thanks for any insight supplied.

 

[Muadib]

The book was published in 2010 - pretty recent - but is there anything that is in the book that has since been proven to be bogus? Many thanks for any insight supplied.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the photograph from the Belgian Triangle UFO Wave, that has been exposed as a hoax recently. I don't think the information was available when she wrote the book, though I could be wrong about that. There may be other issues, but that's the first one that came to mind when I saw your question.

 

[Tyger]

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the photograph from the Belgian Triangle UFO Wave, that has been exposed as a hoax recently. I don't think the information was available when she wrote the book, though I could be wrong about that. There may be other issues, but that's the first one that came to mind when I saw your question.

Thank you, Muadib - I had heard something about that. Thank you for confirming.

I was surprised to see the Rendlesham Forest incident in the book - an incident that from everything I have read and heard about it smacks of bogus. I'll see when I get there in the book.

 

[Tyger]

BTW, I have a question for you, Muadib. Every time I read your name I am reminded of the great novel by Frank Herbert: "Dune". Are you referencing with your screen name that 'one to be beat' scifi/fantasy classic? Not meant to offend, just curious.

 

[Tyger]

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the photograph from the Belgian Triangle UFO Wave, that has been exposed as a hoax recently. I don't think the information was available when she wrote the book, though I could be wrong about that. There may be other issues, but that's the first one that came to mind when I saw your question.

Forgot to ask - is there a place here on the chat site where that 'debunk' is discussed?

 

[Muadib]

BTW, I have a question for you, Muadib. Every time I read your name I am reminded of the great novel by Frank Herbert: "Dune". Are you referencing with your screen name that 'one to be beat' scifi/fantasy classic? Not meant to offend, just curious.

Yep, it's probably my favorite sci-fi novel of all time.

 

[Muadib]

Forgot to ask - is there a place here on the chat site where that 'debunk' is discussed?

There's a pretty extensive discussion of the debunk and all that surrounds it in the Black Triangle Forum, here's a link to the thread:

Famous Belgian UFO Photo A Fake | The Paracast Community Forums

 

[Tyger]

Yep, it's probably my favorite sci-fi novel of all time.

Oh, it was so good. The first book was outstanding. 'Dune Messiah' was pretty good, too - but it petered out for me. I didn't read the rest of the series.

Thank you for the links to the debunk. I shall go forth and read at some point.

 

[Randall]

I have looked about but do not see a section for a discussion for books (except the reviews) so I am plunking this here ... I'd say this comment of Ms Kean's sums up my approach to the subject, too: "I'm not a 'believer' in anything except respect for the facts, even when they don't conform to our established worldview. The UFO issue is so unorthodox that even a straightforward, rational approach can seem as though it's crossed a line into questionable territory. I've done my best to keep this information clear, logical and well-documented."

We've discussed Leslie Kean here at some length. She is a UFO celebrity and has plenty of fans. She also does some very good journalistic research and composition. However there are some important issues where we disagree. If you are interested in any of the counterpoint to her views, you might try following the bread crumbs in the links below:

• Damage Control - Ufology in Flames | The Paracast Community Forums
• Leslie Kean and Charles Halt | Page 2 | The Paracast Community Forums

Since you are just starting her book, you should be aware that her synonymous use of UAP = UFO is not technically correct. Neither is her view of what constitutes the definition of UFO, particularly her segment in the introduction "Defining the Undefinable: What is a UFO?" A much more complete and accurate article ( including a defensible definition based on history and usage ) can be found here: Unidentified Flying Object - Official Definition & Etymology of The Word UFO

For me it doesn't help when the subject is linked with the 'paranormal'. It's one reason the decision of the LA MUFON to become a paranormal research group very disappointing - and I am aware that I say that on the Paracast chat site. That little factoid slipped past me because I came here via a link on ufowatchdog. Oh well - I am happily here - though a Book Section would be very nice.

There is a book section, but not many titles in it. I've waded through Amazon and handpicked the best titles related to ufology, the paranormal, skepticism, and the sciences. You can check the selection out here if you're interested, but you need a full version browser for it to work properly. Handhelds, iPads and such don't work properly: Ufology Casebooks

BTW, I agree with you completely that UFOs are not technically a paranormal phenomenon. However paranormal events are linked with the topic, and therefore it would be irresponsible to ignore them. To solve this problem, the group I'm with ( USI ), sees ufology as a general field of study surrounding an interest in UFOs, and catalogs the various facets of the field into sub-categories that can be studied in an objective sense rather than promoting them as truths upon which to base our beliefs. By approaching it in this manner we can examine the issues like UFO religions, paranormal events linked to UFO sightings, and so on, without actually becoming cult followers or whatever.

 

[Muadib]

Oh, it was so good. The first book was outstanding. 'Dune Messiah' was pretty good, too - but it petered out for me. I didn't read the rest of the series.

Thank you for the links to the debunk. I shall go forth and read at some point.

You're quite welcome. My interest in the series actually dies at God Emperor of Dune, I can't say that I didn't enjoy the last two books but they're nowhere near as good as the first 4, at least imo. I'm actually surprised to hear you say that you didn't read Children of Dune, I'd argue that it's a better book than Dune Messiah, which strangely enough was originally intended to be the first book in the series but was shelved for what became "Dune." Thank goodness, if Dune Messiah would've been the first in the series, I probably would've never heard about it as I doubt that it would've attained the same level of popularity as the groundbreaking first title in the series. Anyway, give it a shot sometime if you get a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Tyger]

Ufology, thank you, as always, for your information and perspective on things. You are invaluable.

 

[Tyger]

You're quite welcome. My interest in the series actually dies at God Emperor of Dune, I can't say that I didn't enjoy the last two books but they're nowhere near as good as the first 4, at least imo. I'm actually surprised to hear you say that you didn't read Children of Dune, I'd argue that it's a better book than Dune Messiah, which strangely enough was originally intended to be the first book in the series but was shelved for what became "Dune." Thank goodness, if Dune Messiah would've been the first in the series, I probably would've never heard about it as I doubt that it would've attained the same level of popularity as the groundbreaking first title in the series. Anyway, give it a shot sometime if you get a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.

It's been a while since I've read the books. 'Dune Messiah' was second, right? I think I read three of the series, but anyway, 'Dune' remains the one where the magic was spun and the net cast. Sometimes the memory is better than the fact, ya know? I recall being enthralled by Roger Zelazny's 'Lord of Light'. When I went back recently, not the same.

What did you think of the film 'Dune'? If there ever was a series that is begging to be, needs to be, 'done right' on screen, it is the 'Dune' books.

 

[Muadib]

It's been a while since I've read the books. 'Dune Messiah' was second, right? I think I read three of the series, but anyway, 'Dune' remains the one where the magic was spun and the net cast. Sometimes the memory is better than the fact, ya know? I recall being enthralled by Roger Zelazny's 'Lord of Light'. When I went back recently, not the same.

What did you think of the film 'Dune'? If there ever was a series that is begging to be, needs to be, 'done right' on screen, it is the 'Dune' books.

Well, that depends on which production of Dune you're talking about, are we talking the David Lynch film or the Sci-Fi channel mini-series/movie? If we're talking about the Lynch film, I thought it was an abomination that was insulting to fans of the novel, there's something to be said for letting a director add his own touch to the story but Lynch just ran buck wild with it and turned it into what I would call a complete and utter shitfest. To this very day, he won't acknowledge or talk about the film and I think that says all that needs to be said about it.

As for the Sci-Fi production, I thought it was well done, they stuck to the story and managed to do a damn good job of cramming such a large and expansive book into a 3 or 4 hour (I forget exactly how long it was) production. I was unimpressed with some of the actors but overall, it's the best production of Dune that I've seen so far.

Interestingly, the movie was recently going to be remade, several different directors were attached at different points and there's even some concept art floating around out there. Unfortunately, the problem of finding a director to stay with the project and see it through to the end proved too much to handle and the production company that made the deal for the film rights lost them when a mutually agreed upon date passed without any real forward motion on the project. I remain hopeful that someone will eventually pick it up and make the great film that I know Dune could potentially be. I'd also like to see it turned into an MMORPG, I think there are endless awesome possibilities for an MMO based on the Dune universe, or at least a decent video game that isn't strategy based, not that I don't like strategy games, I do, but there have been like 6 or 7 Dune strategy games, it's time for something different.

 

[Tyger]

Well, that depends on which production of Dune you're talking about, are we talking the David Lynch film or the Sci-Fi channel mini-series/movie? If we're talking about the Lynch film, I thought it was an abomination that was insulting to fans of the novel, there's something to be said for letting a director add his own touch to the story but Lynch just ran buck wild with it and turned it into what I would call a complete and utter shitfest. To this very day, he won't acknowledge or talk about the film and I think that says all that needs to be said about it.

As for the Sci-Fi production, I thought it was well done, they stuck to the story and managed to do a damn good job of cramming such a large and expansive book into a 3 or 4 hour (I forget exactly how long it was) production. I was unimpressed with some of the actors but overall, it's the best production of Dune that I've seen so far.

I meant the film - and I agree with you about that.

Forgot about the series, which I never really saw, except in bits and pieces in a re-run, I think. Worth an Amazon purchase, ya think? 'Dune' and/or 'Children of Dune'?

 

[Muadib]

I meant the film - and I agree with you about that.

Forgot about the series, which I never really saw, except in bits and pieces in a re-run, I think. Worth an Amazon purchase, ya think? 'Dune' and/or 'Children of Dune'?

Absolutely worth a purchase, in my opinion, I own both of them. I will say if you're just going to get one, I would make it 'Dune.' 'Children of Dune' is good, but it suffers from trying to cram two books (Dune Messiah and Children of Dune) into a block of time that's roughly the same as the first series. It's still worth watching, but some things get lost due to the time constraints.

 

[uforadio]

Check up also this thread:
Leslie Kean Media | The Paracast Community Forums

 

[Tyger]

I've looked at the links supplied - all interesting. A lot of reading that I skimmed so not sure if I missed something that was there pertinent to my wondering - how did the hoax of the Belgian pictures go down with Kean? If she was so meticulous as a journalist - with only the very best of the best cases - having one (and possibly two) problems with the evidence of two cases in her book has to have impacted her book's standing, not so?

I probably should wait until I have read her book to the end before engaging in conversation.