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I'm a simple man myself and certainly no hard scientist. But, as I said before there has been some provocative research. Also, I've had my own "aha" moments. At the end of the day we all wake up in our own skin and all we really have is our own sense of self. That being said the things we can measure and the things we can do for each other be it spritual such as just being there or offering a shoulder or even a prayer or love. Be it scientific (which to me is an extension of the devine mind or ground of being) Be it a meal or a pat on the back or visiting the sick is all we really can do. We can't prove (or I can't) the human soul or the reality of God or even the actual machination and reality/reason of how evolution works. We will always have charlatans and false phrophets and liers and exploiters. You see religion and see scams and a bad history with it. I see it and see many of the same things. But, I also see the minister that came out in the cold when my Grandmother was passing and held her hand. I also see the mother who lost her child and yet holds to a peace that passes understanding that God doesn't balance the books every Tuesday but there is a balance. You see hokum and I do to at times. But, I also see the time that I heard (literally) a voice in my head tell me a freind was going to kill himself. Walked in and walked right past the damn shotgun in the hall. So, many times I can't measure these things or prove them to a skeptic or an atheist. So, I mainly keep em to myself. But, it's just enough to "know" that although there is a lot of bunk and a lot of opressive charlatans that meaning and hope and purpose is there. No, I don't have a clear cut theology. I can't say "this is how it works." But, then again I'm still on my journey. I admire (contrary to some things I might say) the human sciences and the knowledge we have. But, I also admire the human search for individual meaning. At the end of the day that's all "each" of us really has to go on. I love my child more than anything in this world. I have to believe that love is real and not a simple chemical robotic reaction. Just poking the brain with a stick and cause it to salivate or twitch will never disprove the spirit to me. Nor prove it to anybody else that doesn't see it that way I'm sure.

Peace.
Steve.

<blockquote data-quote="tyder001" data-source="post: 114706" data-attributes="member: 853">I&#039;m a simple man myself and certainly no hard scientist. But, as I said before there has been some provocative research. Also, I&#039;ve had my own &quot;aha&quot; moments. At the end of the day we all wake up in our own skin and all we really have is our own sense of self. That being said the things we can measure and the things we can do for each other be it spritual such as just being there or offering a shoulder or even a prayer or love. Be it scientific (which to me is an extension of the devine mind or ground of being) Be it a meal or a pat on the back or visiting the sick is all we really can do. We can&#039;t prove (or I can&#039;t) the human soul or the reality of God or even the actual machination and reality/reason of how evolution works. We will always have charlatans and false phrophets and liers and exploiters. You see religion and see scams and a bad history with it. I see it and see many of the same things. But, I also see the minister that came out in the cold when my Grandmother was passing and held her hand. I also see the mother who lost her child and yet holds to a peace that passes understanding that God doesn&#039;t balance the books every Tuesday but there is a balance. You see hokum and I do to at times. But, I also see the time that I heard (literally) a voice in my head tell me a freind was going&nbsp; to kill himself. Walked in and walked right past the damn shotgun in the hall. So, many times I can&#039;t measure these things or prove them to a skeptic or an atheist. So, I mainly keep em to myself. But, it&#039;s just enough to &quot;know&quot; that although there is a lot of bunk and a lot of opressive charlatans that meaning and hope and purpose is there. No, I don&#039;t have a clear cut theology. I can&#039;t say &quot;this is how it works.&quot; But, then again I&#039;m still on my journey. I admire (contrary to some things I might say) the human sciences and the knowledge we have. But, I also admire the human search for individual meaning. At the end of the day that&#039;s all &quot;each&quot; of us really has to go on. I love my child more than anything in this world. I have to believe that love is real and not a simple chemical robotic reaction. Just poking the brain with a stick and cause it to salivate or twitch will never disprove the spirit to me. Nor prove it to anybody else that doesn&#039;t see it that way I&#039;m sure. Peace. Steve.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tyder001, post: 114706, member: 853"] I'm a simple man myself and certainly no hard scientist. But, as I said before there has been some provocative research. Also, I've had my own "aha" moments. At the end of the day we all wake up in our own skin and all we really have is our own sense of self. That being said the things we can measure and the things we can do for each other be it spritual such as just being there or offering a shoulder or even a prayer or love. Be it scientific (which to me is an extension of the devine mind or ground of being) Be it a meal or a pat on the back or visiting the sick is all we really can do. We can't prove (or I can't) the human soul or the reality of God or even the actual machination and reality/reason of how evolution works. We will always have charlatans and false phrophets and liers and exploiters. You see religion and see scams and a bad history with it. I see it and see many of the same things. But, I also see the minister that came out in the cold when my Grandmother was passing and held her hand. I also see the mother who lost her child and yet holds to a peace that passes understanding that God doesn't balance the books every Tuesday but there is a balance. You see hokum and I do to at times. But, I also see the time that I heard (literally) a voice in my head tell me a freind was going to kill himself. Walked in and walked right past the damn shotgun in the hall. So, many times I can't measure these things or prove them to a skeptic or an atheist. So, I mainly keep em to myself. But, it's just enough to "know" that although there is a lot of bunk and a lot of opressive charlatans that meaning and hope and purpose is there. No, I don't have a clear cut theology. I can't say "this is how it works." But, then again I'm still on my journey. I admire (contrary to some things I might say) the human sciences and the knowledge we have. But, I also admire the human search for individual meaning. At the end of the day that's all "each" of us really has to go on. I love my child more than anything in this world. I have to believe that love is real and not a simple chemical robotic reaction. Just poking the brain with a stick and cause it to salivate or twitch will never disprove the spirit to me. Nor prove it to anybody else that doesn't see it that way I'm sure. Peace. Steve. [/QUOTE]

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