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Clifford Stone
- Thread starter Lavarat
- Start date
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David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
Clifford Stone is a very nice man, but I don't buy a word of his many wild stories.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
David Biedny said:
Same here.
what is it that people have against the disclosure project people, having one pathological liar is enough, how could a group of people get together and it just so turns out that all of them happen to be pathological liars that tell same lie, the odds of such thing is astronomical
Not really. People with an agenda lie all the time if it suits what they believe to be true or if they want to promote their agenda. They get caught lying too. Nothing astronomical about that.
I like Stone's demeanor. But he's just as likely been programmed to support a huge story that may have little basis in fact. He may believe he participated in something that was simply forced into his memory.
The whole alien ball of wax (abuse and control) may be no more or less than an MK Ultra program set up to disturb a considerably larger number of the unsuspecting public. Seems to me that mind control has gone from the old institutions out to the public at large. It's a theory for now, but I find it just as believable as I do the theory that aliens are crashing all around us and using us for hybrid breeding purposes.
If I'm incorrect, I don't find them nice guys. They could tell convincing lies and get away with it. My advice is to trust no one, not even your own perceptions when it comes to the alien question.
I like Stone's demeanor. But he's just as likely been programmed to support a huge story that may have little basis in fact. He may believe he participated in something that was simply forced into his memory.
The whole alien ball of wax (abuse and control) may be no more or less than an MK Ultra program set up to disturb a considerably larger number of the unsuspecting public. Seems to me that mind control has gone from the old institutions out to the public at large. It's a theory for now, but I find it just as believable as I do the theory that aliens are crashing all around us and using us for hybrid breeding purposes.
If I'm incorrect, I don't find them nice guys. They could tell convincing lies and get away with it. My advice is to trust no one, not even your own perceptions when it comes to the alien question.
Michael L.
Coffee swillin' Devil's advocate
I do not know Mr. Stone, although I recognize the name cannot remember exactly what his claims are, and am not necessarily commenting on his motivations.
As to a general "Why would people come out and say X" question, I honestly believe that many supporters are too quick to dismiss the possibility that these "witnesses" simply enjoy the attention. This does not have to be a mental illness level of attention seeking; many people just discover that they enjoy being in front of an audience. I think some people can easily justify spinning wild stories as a form of entertainment. Before you point out that many of these people never profit from these stories, let me explain that I do not believe they are interested in real compensation. They simply like being on stage, just as a million musicians who play for free, volunteer clowns and magicians and the thousands of people every night participating in karaoke and open mic nights across America with no serious aspirations of professional performing.
Again, I am not stating that this is the motivation for every whisteblower or witness. Perhaps not even the majority. Still, any time this point is brought up, many are quick to brush it away. "They are not making money from this," is an argument that, as I have already stated, may not matter. "How much attention are they really getting?" Well, enough that it is generating at least a certain level of discussion; more than the poetry reading at the corner coffee shop! Finally "This is negative attention, though." I submit that to some, this may not matter. With a firm grin, I direct your attention to American Idol auditions. Obviously, many of those people realize they are horrible but hope to be horrible enough to make it on television.
I have worked extensively with musicians (I was an audio technician for a rather famous manufacturer for several years) and other performers (I write and sometimes produce video for performers). There is an amazingly large group of strictly amateur performers who simply love being on stage. What better forum for a storyteller than this field?
As to a general "Why would people come out and say X" question, I honestly believe that many supporters are too quick to dismiss the possibility that these "witnesses" simply enjoy the attention. This does not have to be a mental illness level of attention seeking; many people just discover that they enjoy being in front of an audience. I think some people can easily justify spinning wild stories as a form of entertainment. Before you point out that many of these people never profit from these stories, let me explain that I do not believe they are interested in real compensation. They simply like being on stage, just as a million musicians who play for free, volunteer clowns and magicians and the thousands of people every night participating in karaoke and open mic nights across America with no serious aspirations of professional performing.
Again, I am not stating that this is the motivation for every whisteblower or witness. Perhaps not even the majority. Still, any time this point is brought up, many are quick to brush it away. "They are not making money from this," is an argument that, as I have already stated, may not matter. "How much attention are they really getting?" Well, enough that it is generating at least a certain level of discussion; more than the poetry reading at the corner coffee shop! Finally "This is negative attention, though." I submit that to some, this may not matter. With a firm grin, I direct your attention to American Idol auditions. Obviously, many of those people realize they are horrible but hope to be horrible enough to make it on television.
I have worked extensively with musicians (I was an audio technician for a rather famous manufacturer for several years) and other performers (I write and sometimes produce video for performers). There is an amazingly large group of strictly amateur performers who simply love being on stage. What better forum for a storyteller than this field?
During the UFO activity in 60s and 70s I do believe maybe earlier he was a top officer in a secret military reckon team in which had the responsiblity of recovering downed UFO Aircraft. If anyone was on the inside of the group that knew what was going on, he would be one of them.
You're guess is as good as mine, Lavarat. When trillions of dollars have been poured into black projects for at least 50-60 years, while some people have gone hungry in this country, while the mentally disturbed have been turned out on the streets, while a city is left to waste after a severe hurricane, while outsourcing of manufacturing jobs in this country has caused unemployment and loss of benefits, etc., those black project dollars can look wasted on egoistic dreams of power brokers. It stinks pretty bad, in fact. Lying is a useful tool.
tommyball
Skilled Investigator
Personally I find Stone's story to be questionable, however I found some specific rebuttals on ATS:
1) His military records show he was assigned as clerk typist throughout his entire career.
2) He claimed to have "accidentally" seen the Ray Santilli "alien autopsy" film while he was in the military years before Santilli "released" it... that is until Santilli admitted it was hoax... oops.
3) Before he became a "researcher" for the Roswell museum at least one well known UFOlogist recalls him asking naive questions about UFOs and aliens and wanting to learn more.
Regardless, it's a shame that the Disclosure Project was tarnished to a degree by his story.
-todd.
1) His military records show he was assigned as clerk typist throughout his entire career.
2) He claimed to have "accidentally" seen the Ray Santilli "alien autopsy" film while he was in the military years before Santilli "released" it... that is until Santilli admitted it was hoax... oops.
3) Before he became a "researcher" for the Roswell museum at least one well known UFOlogist recalls him asking naive questions about UFOs and aliens and wanting to learn more.
Regardless, it's a shame that the Disclosure Project was tarnished to a degree by his story.
-todd.
Goody
Sailor Of Mind & Time
Not familiar with Cooper, I guess I don't have alot to say on this subject...but:
The Disclosure Project is good. What is not good is Greer's obsession with the military being involved in all abductions & concluding that all ET's are benevolent.
One request, ONE simple request:
1) Show me the list of those hundreds of testimonials & the names of those men & women of who's names are listed.
Godammit.
Goody.
The Disclosure Project is good. What is not good is Greer's obsession with the military being involved in all abductions & concluding that all ET's are benevolent.
One request, ONE simple request:
1) Show me the list of those hundreds of testimonials & the names of those men & women of who's names are listed.
Godammit.
Goody.
tommyball
Skilled Investigator
Goody said:
Good point. It is odd that almost all of Greer's witnesses are military (was that a real request because here's one list from his site. Other than that I think a PDF of the Disclosure Project documents is relatively easy to find) while at the X-Conference he said that the military carried out abductions with beings that they had engineered in order to spread fear of extraterrestrials.
-todd.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Goody said:
Well, first we have to assume there ARE extra-terrestrials. Beyond that, we have to assume there are multiples of them. Taking it a step further then it seems absurd to make such a blanket statement. Citing the fact that they could have reduced the earth to "a burned out cinder" had they chosen to do so at any point in our history is optimistic at best. Lack of overt hostility is not proof of benificence.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Goody said:Well, what do you guys think about the 'There is no proof that Extraterrestrials are hostile'?
Are abductions just a psychological reaction to something to so foreign that they induce fear?
Btw, i'll have a look for those PDF documents thanks Tommyball.
Goody.
1. No proof of ets, so no. Evidence they are like us with animals.
2. Yes, that goes on quite a bit. But I wouldn't say it's "just" a reaction. It's not either or, but both/and I think.
Lavarat said:
Well Guys, allow me to rain on your parade in regards to Cliffy Stone. I know Stone, knew Stone way ..... back in the late 80's and very early 90's. Back then (and I saw Clifford at a number of UFO cons, talked to him, he was retiring from the U.S. Army as an E-7, thats Sgt. First Class to you civies) Clifford's main claim to fame was digging out documents from archives. It wasn't until the mid-90's that Cliff's story began to change!
Now, allow me to state that on a personal level, I liked Stone. And when he was doing research, he could dig out some good docs. However....
About 1993 or so, he called me up with an incredible story, and I might add, one that was so full of bullshit, I wondered if ol' Cliff was doing "acid." He told me that one day 3 guys pulled up to his house, guys he didn't know. They told him to get his jacket, they wanted to take him somewhere and "show him something. So, ol' Cliff got his jacket and slipped his .357 magnum in his pocket. They drove out to the boonies .... then stopped their car and told Cliff to get out. The guy that talked to Cliff back at his house got out of the car and then (remember, Stone told me this with a straight face) said he knew Cliff had his gun. He told Cliff to shoot him! So, while Stone is telling me this, I asked him "Okay Cliff, what did you do?"
Stone told me he pulled out his .357 and fired 3 shots at the guy. Then he told me "I shot at him not even thinking, but the bullets didn't even hurt him!
Thats when I knew Cliffy had drifted into the land of OZ. Later he had some real Tall Tales from Viet Nam, but I covered that bullshit in UFO Magazine.
The bottom line, if you buy Cliffy's story, let me tell you about some PRIME BOTTOM Land I have for sell in southern Florida.
Don Ecker
Decker said:
How times have changed. It used to be the Brooklyn Bridge
