Conspiratorial Belief System- Where does it stop?

[ANTIMONITOR]

I am seeking a little feedback here. There certainly is no answer to the question I will posit. Please, bear with me...

All my life I have been interested in the paranormal and UFO lore has always been the area that really gripped me, and as one comes to learn, the UFO question is hard to divorce from the conspiracy realm. Ultimately, there is just too much information, whether circumstantial or otherwise that suggest that information is being withheld from the general public by people in power, who, right or wrong, are acting as information brokers; sometimes they are called the Silence Group (awesome name for a band, too). If this true, and this Silence Group exists in any form, and there has been any amount of organization or agreement to block release of information, AND this has been accomplished by methods not in accordance with the law then then these people are engaged in conspiracy.

If any of us accept that this is true, then we all must concede to at least a degree that there is an infrastructure in place to hide such massive information. It is here that a slippery slope reveals itself. I began sliding down this slope when I discovered the 9/11 "Truth Movement", a field as fractious and antagonistic as UFOlogy. While, I certainly do not buy the wilder theories such as Space Beam Controlled Demolition or No Planes, I do however have really unshakable gut-feelings that the whole situation is totally fishy. Not to mention, that conspiracy theory has exploded during the Bush Administration because-why?-IT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE UP TO NO GOOD! These people were constantly skulking about, and smirking at conventions of morality and "privacy"! Oh, and please don't let this devolve into people rehashing supposed proof of government complicity, there are other threads for that. It is so easy to throw stones.

What I am really getting at, is that once you accept that information on non-human life can be locked away and that those whom are perceived to have that information lie to us about it, and you accept the possibility that our government was at least callously exploitative, if not in some way complicit in the events of 9/11 then you reach a point where trust is gone completely and the most heinous of rumors can conceivably be true. In fact, it becomes hard not to see the most cynical possibilities, even for a discerning mind.

Have we formed a belief system that allows if not demands that we be able to perceive a framework of deception around events? Especially where the government is concerned? For example, this Swine Flu- naturally there are wacko's who screamed biological false flag at the first hint of pandemic. I have seen no information that makes me think that it is anything but natural viral outbreak it seems to be. But I would be lying if I said the conspiracy angle did not occur to me.

We all know people who we respect as rational, intelligent, curious people, who just cannot believe that conspiracy operations of the aforementioned sort are possible. My own father, one of these such people, being quite familiar with general UFO lore through me still cannot come to grips with the phenomena as a reality. And he knows nothing of the more esoteric side that Valle and others reveal!

The question is, then, even for people able to sift solid information from dis- and misinformation, once your mind is wired to accept the possibility of dark truths and perceive their potential shape, how can you stop seeing the potential for it everywhere. Conversely to how a Christian must accept certain things blindly on "faith", must a Conspiracist forever be unable to take events at face value without suspicion? Does anyone else out there kind of miss the innocent times where politicians where just corrupt buffoons, and the military industrial complex was not seemingly a Machiavellian leviathan?

Sorry, bout the long post. And that is was rambling. And more paranoid than I would like to be honest. If nothing else it felt great to just put all this into words, though I would love anyones thoughts if you feel inclined.

 

[Schuyler]

Interesting post. Here's an idea FWIW. Today, in our 'modern' culture, we have experienced a loss of faith in our institutions, whether it is family, church, or government. We like to feel that we are superior to those institutions, that they have failed us, and that they were a product of a more naive time. We snear at a lot of religious beliefs (I certainly do! I mean this sincerely.) We have rocked the foundations of family by both splitting it up, changing the players, and ignoring its percepts. Government is, of course, run by losers. We are no longer 'patriotic' to our countries. In short, we question the very foundations of our culture.

But, I think, we still need a structure around our lives. Left with nothing, we will fall back and re-group. One of the fundamental pre-requisites of a society is a shared perception of reality. When we don't have one, we make it up. So, for example, the gang structure in ghettos makes up for the lack of respect for broken family. It provides a feeling of belonging. You wear the same colors as the next guy and he becomes your 'brother.' Same with the Marine Corps, by the way.

So we cannot trust our government. Indeed, it is not allowed, so what do we do? If The government tells us something, it MUST be a lie, therefore we make up a conspiracy to provide that lack of governmental structure as an alternative explanation. Truth is not the issue here. When you've got a conspiracy on your hands, anything goes. Anything is plausible. As like minds turn over this conspiracy theory they begin to see a shared sense of reality and form a kind of church around them. It fills a gap.

This is not just me talking. The basic percepts of this were given long ago in an article by D.F. Aberle, et al, "The functional prerequisites of a society," (Ethics, Vol 60, January, 1950, pp 100-111.) which is required reading for any anthropology student. Other prerequisites include, for example, 'the effective control of disruptive forms of behavior' and 'the regulation of affective expression.' (Who gets the women.)

I won't bore you with more detail, but the basic idea is that when we no longer have supportive structures around us, we'll find a way to get them back.

 

[CapnG]

Does anyone else out there kind of miss the innocent times where politicians where just corrupt buffoons, and the military industrial complex was not seemingly a Machiavellian leviathan?

Ignorance is bliss, eh? Too bad it's still ignorance.

The reality is simple; conspiracies are commonplace throughout history, we just prefer to think things work as they seem to because it's simpler. We like simple. Now, by no account does that automatically mean all conspiracies theories are true or likely to be true or could even remotely be true, it simply illustrates that they could indeed be potentially true.

It's also worth considering the inverse nature of conspiratorial thinking, ie the more outlandish a conspiracy sounds, the less people will believe it, therefore the more likely it would succeed if it were indeed true. The Nazis actually employed this as functional propaganda during the war. One of them (Himmler, I think) said later that (paraphrasing) "it was easier to decieve with a big lie than a series of small lies, so long as the big lie is repeated authoritatively." Such is the nature of the human animal.

So why now? I blame the hippies. In the 60's, counter culture encouraged us all to question authority, so we started questioning authority. And we kept questioning. And we continue to question authorities. That leads to an obvious dillema; since a layman is not an expert, he cannot hope to understand things beyond his grasp, yet he tends to question the expert's opinion anyway simply out of habit. If he doesn't like what he hears, he may seek out another expert. If he still doesn't like it he may repeat the process. If he can't find an expert to agree with him, then... ah ha! IT'S A CONSPIRACY! And off we go again...

 

[jpw.in.wi]

... you reach a point where trust is gone completely and the most heinous of rumors can conceivably be true. In fact, it becomes hard not to see the most cynical possibilities, even for a discerning mind.

I used to get myself all wound up about things, as you seem to be. You can really ruin your life spending all of your time popping Tums and trying to wade through the ocean of noise that surrounds us.

Just stick to what you know is right, teach your kids to do the same, certainly get involved in your community at some level to make a positive difference (watch for the doors to open and see where they lead you), and above all make a conscious decision to enjoy life, every day! Life is too short to waste it on conspiracy theories and alleged government coverups. They've always been out there, but what can you do? Don't let the mere thought of them drag you down.

... this Swine Flu- naturally there are wacko's who screamed biological false flag at the first hint of pandemic. I have seen no information that makes me think that it is anything but natural viral outbreak it seems to be. But I would be lying if I said the conspiracy angle did not occur to me.

This is really out of our hands. The fact is the disease is out there, it's only beginning (look for the worst wave to hit around October of this year), and all you can really do is take steps to protect yourself and your family. And again, make a conscious decision each day to enjoy life while you've got it.

The question is, then, even for people able to sift solid information from dis- and misinformation, once your mind is wired to accept the possibility of dark truths and perceive their potential shape, how can you stop seeing the potential for it everywhere.

Exactly. You are what you think, to a degree. Fill your mind with thoughts of darkness, suspicion, and despair, and don't be surprised at how it starts to shape your whole being.

Conversely to how a Christian must accept certain things blindly on "faith", must a Conspiracist forever be unable to take events at face value without suspicion?

I just can't stand the ignorant attitude that so many people seem to have about us "Christians". As though it's a tranquilizer pill we take then curl up into a little ball in the corner and try to forget about the real world. It's not something that's difficult or challenging. It's the "easy way out" as I've often been contemptuously told by others.

I'm not going to get into here, but before you make such sweeping and insulting generalizations about me and others like me, please just stop and consider that maybe there's more to it than you think.

If nothing else it felt great to just put all this into words, though I would love anyones thoughts if you feel inclined.

Writing things down helps me feel better sometimes, too. Thanks for sharing. I hope you find what you're looking for. And thanks for taking my thoughts into consideration, FWIW.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

well, I am very cynical about politics' stranglehold on honest government, turning it into a place where no good deed goes unpunished...
but I digress, yet again.

the way I handle all that doom and gloom: is it affecting the people I love and feel responsible for? is it affecting my community? my friends? my neighbours? No? then probably it doesn't exist as a conspiracy, it is just stupid people pretending to be smarter than they are.

that does not work for the thought of children at risk in the world, so I keep my coin wallet open when I see donation buckets for food banks, emergency funds for places like Somalia, kids in Brazil, that sort of thing. It may not be the solution, but it is much better than nothing and is something I can do, which also helps to disperse the doom and gloom feeling.

 

[noelene]

As much as I'd like to disregard all the conspiracy theories, I have a gut feeling that most of them have various degrees of truth.

I try not to spend too much time dwelling on them. Kinda spoils your peace of mind.

BUT I also have the sneaking feeling that a lot of the conspiracy theorists are in it for the money. An example--Alex Jones and his latest "seeds for sale" speil. Checked it out, and he wants over $100 for seeds for about an acre of land. I'm no farmer, but that seems like a LOT of money. And I don't think the average Joe has anywhere near that much land.

He must think we're pretty "stoopid."

 

[PhantomAce]

Great post.

Believing is easy,the ultimate human trait. Few animal species if any have a belief system like humans.

The truth unlike belief is a singular event. Only OJ truly knows the truth for example. So in the absence of an "official line" humans gather around conspiracy theories and or beliefs. I could on and on about this. Note my sig

 

[Xylo]

Ignorance is bliss, eh? Too bad it's still ignorance.
<snipped>
So why now? I blame the hippies. In the 60's, counter culture encouraged us all to question authority, so we started questioning authority. And we kept questioning.

I think it goes back further than that. I think that the beginning of the "Conspiracy Movement" goes back to November of 1963, with the assassination of Kennedy. No one wanted to believe that one lone gunman could have done such a deed. Many still don't believe it. (I know I don't.) Conveniently, all accused or involved parties seemed to die quickly afterwards, leaving all the details to conjecture and government investigators.

To go further, Cronkite was on the television holding the collective hand of the people, firmly establishing a trust in the media.

In the following years, RFK and MLKjr were both assassinated as well-both by lone gunmen.

So why do we believe in conspiracies? It's fun. It stimulates us to read more into photos, first-hand accounts and seemingly trivial details. The realm of "Conspiracy" lifts us out of our mundane lives. It makes us examine parts of our past, and plan out our futures. It gives us something in which to believe. And as the religious can tell us, belief is a powerful motivator-sometimes even more powerful than knowledge.

 

[ANTIMONITOR]

I just can't stand the ignorant attitude that so many people seem to have about us "Christians". As though it's a tranquilizer pill we take then curl up into a little ball in the corner and try to forget about the real world. It's not something that's difficult or challenging. It's the "easy way out" as I've often been contemptuously told by others.

I'm not going to get into here, but before you make such sweeping and insulting generalizations about me and others like me, please just stop and consider that maybe there's more to it than you think.

First off, thanks much for your reply. To everyone who has replied in fact. I am sorry you took offense to my statement, was not intended to be that way. And yes, it was a sweeping generalization but used to analogize with another sweeping generalization in regard to a paranoid mindset. However, I grew up a Christian household, went to a Catholic school and even though I no longer feel like my beliefs define me as a Christian, my experience and basic moral foundation still cause me to view things through somewhat of a Christian filter. I know what I am talking about in terms of what faith requires. Now, I am not one of the fools who, for example, condemn homosexuality on religious grounds. Nor do most thinking religious people. You are absolutely correct that faith does NOT require one to take leave of their senses or personal morality judgements.

What I was referring to, and why I used the phrase "certain things", is because there ARE a few thing that Christians must accept on faith. The primary example is that if one does not believe that Jesus Christ lived and died and resurrected for our sins then they cannot claim to be Christian. I guess I would say that those certain things that I initially referred to are things like the idea that "God has a plan", no matter what bad shit happens or more appropriate to our current conversation that God's Word is Law and that the arbiter of that law is the earthly Church, thus believers must have faith that what they are told is the truth of His Word . Or that there is a reward or punishment after death. Actually, whether it is a Heaven/Hell I don't know, but this is one belief I still carry. Christianity also requires a belief in not only His virgin birth, but in His eventual return in divine judgement. There are some tenets that cannot be viewed as metaphor, even for the most progressive of believers.

Still, please, pardon my insulting generalization and thanks for your insightful reply. While I still believe that what I said is accurate, I did not mean to pick on Christians. It is just the religion that I am fully acquainted with enough to make an insulting generalization.

BTW, your "Serenity Now" picture is awesome and is also my new desktop wallpaper, even if it is pixelated.

 

[pixelsmith]

As much as I'd like to disregard all the conspiracy theories, I have a gut feeling that most of them have various degrees of truth.

I try not to spend too much time dwelling on them. Kinda spoils your peace of mind.

BUT I also have the sneaking feeling that a lot of the conspiracy theorists are in it for the money. An example--Alex Jones and his latest "seeds for sale" speil. Checked it out, and he wants over $100 for seeds for about an acre of land. I'm no farmer, but that seems like a LOT of money. And I don't think the average Joe has anywhere near that much land.

He must think we're pretty "stoopid."

seeds like these?

 

[jimbo83478]

I guess I would say that those certain things that I initially referred to are things like the idea that "God has a plan", no matter what bad shit happens or more appropriate to our current conversation that God's Word is Law and that the arbiter of that law is the earthly Church, thus believers must have faith that what they are told is the truth of His Word.

Funny thing about faith...in the book The Blue Zones, by Dan Buettner, the author researches the lives of those who live longest throughout the world. Buettner noticed, among many interesting facts about their daily habits and diets, that they all were part of strong religious communities and practiced daily prayer or worship. Not that this is essential to live long, but interesting nontheless...and a good read.

Also worth noting (if you believe in the NDE phenomenon): this man, Mellen-Thomas Benedict, claims to have created his own cancer through negative thought,

"I had been an information freak in the 1970’s, and I had become increasingly despondent over the nuclear crisis, the ecology crisis, and so forth. So, since I did not have a spiritual basis, I began to believe that nature had made a mistake, and that we were probably a cancerous organism on the planet. I saw no way that we could get out from all the problems we had created for ourselves and the planet. I perceived all humans as cancer, and that is what I got.

That is what killed me. Be careful what your world view is. It can feed back on you, especially if it is a negative world view. I had a seriously negative one. That is what led me into my death. I tried all sorts of alternative healing methods, but nothing helped " (http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm).


Food for thought.

 

[cottonzway]

I think you make a really interesting point. Good thread.

I am personally interested in politics, geo-politics, economics, and learning in general. I never took much of an interest in any of that other then economics even after I was out of college. Roughly 5-years ago or so I became interested in 9/11 events as a man who was hell-bent on disproving all of the blasphemous things I heard. After I was not able to do that, I became interested in other issues. I became an avid reader on a wide-ranging issues.

Over time I feel I am able to disseminate information much better. It is difficult and there are is a lot of bogus shit that people get caught up in. It’s rather easy to do so if you are not thinking, but instead accepting information as “truth” on face value.

There are a lot of flat out evil people in this world. There are indeed major previous and on going “conspiracies” that are of the utmost importance to humanity. The sky still rises in the morning though and there are good people out there is well. Keeping that mindset alone allows a person to keep in prospective that while these awful things are going on, this that ultimately effect you, you have little control over them yourself, but good people in masses can sway events to overcome a lot of these awful things that concern us as a society.

 

[Anubis]

In a world where propagandists like Michael Moore win "Best Documentary" Oscars for works of fiction, I really don't see this trend ending anytime soon.

Bottom line? People are stupid. End of story.

 

[ANTIMONITOR]

In a world where propagandists like Michael Moore win "Best Documentary" Oscars for works of fiction, I really don't see this trend ending anytime soon.

Bottom line? People are stupid. End of story.

I absolutely agree with you on the Michael Moore point. Which also leads to a question that could be a thread in and of itself: While they have a RIGHT to express their opinion, is the vocality of some politically active celebrities somehow inherently propagandistic? Or does it just come off as douche-y.

As for the "people are stupid" line, I gotta call you on that one. I cannot try to shield everybody from that accusation, lest I bite off far more than I can chew. However, I do think that sometimes our too-cool-for-school-cynic attitude that some of us gain upon "opening our eyes" is a bit...um, hell... well it's a bit grumpy. I would say, that rather than stupid (except for those that obviously are), people are willfully complacent.

I think the very reason that there is a growing undercurrent of dissatisfaction and disillusionment in our national affairs by even the most stalwart defenders of our governments essential benevolence, is that people are not stupid. They can see what we see in most cases. They know two plus two equals four, but they don't want to do the math. They know, or are at least afraid of, what they will find. Not that that excuses it.

Which is the flip side of the Conspiratorial Belief System I first posited? Is it that people are too stupid to see the truth; the "sheeple" that presumptive arrogance sometimes labels those with simple lives and trust? Or is it that the opposite is a belief system that encourages trust and acceptance of our nominal superiors?

 

[Anubis]

I absolutely agree with you on the Michael Moore point. Which also leads to a question that could be a thread in and of itself: While they have a RIGHT to express their opinion, is the vocality of some politically active celebrities somehow inherently propagandistic? Or does it just come off as douche-y.

I really don't know which is worse, cockroaches like Moore who knowingly pass off works of utter fiction wholly designed to create anger in the populace, or his sycophants in Hollywood that climb over themselves for a chance to slurp him for doing so. If Rush Limbaugh were to publish the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a factual document, he would be crucified both publically and profesionally for doing so. However, when Moore makes identical claims about conservative America, Hollywood pats him on the back and hands him an Oscar.

As for the "people are stupid" line, I gotta call you on that one. I cannot try to shield everybody from that accusation, lest I bite off far more than I can chew. However, I do think that sometimes our too-cool-for-school-cynic attitude that some of us gain upon "opening our eyes" is a bit...um, hell... well it's a bit grumpy. I would say, that rather than stupid (except for those that obviously are), people are willfully complacent.

I have had too many members of Joe Q. Public who quote Moore as if he were the gospel truth to believe anything different. When refuted, most of them will decry the target of Moore's propaganda piece of the hour as manipulative liars and conspirators, while never considering that there is ample evidence that Moore fits that exact description himself. They believe what they are told to believe without considering the facts objectively for themselves. In my opinion, that is not a benchmark for intelligence by any stretch of the imagination.

Consider this: On average, 64,000 people die from "normal" influenza-related complications every year in the United States. In the case of this so-called swine flu "pandemic" there has been only one death within the United States (19 in Mexico). So why exactly is this been touted by the next great plague? Why are people terrified about contracting somthing that by all evidence seems about as dangerous as the common cold? Simple. They are too freaking daft to think for themselves.

I think the very reason that there is a growing undercurrent of dissatisfaction and disillusionment in our national affairs by even the most stalwart defenders of our governments essential benevolence, is that people are not stupid. They can see what we see in most cases. They know two plus two equals four, but they don't want to do the math. They know, or are at least afraid of, what they will find. Not that that excuses it.

Or they have been so conditioned to think that corruption exists under every corner that they simply have become apathetic to it. Many of them bought into the Obama mythos that the man could walk on water and wave a magic wand and fix the economy, the Middle East and introduce socialized medicine. When they illusion wore off and they realized he is simply a man and not the saviour they envisioned, they felt that their last great hope had cheated them and started calling for his head. BTW, their impatience with this new administration began less than two months after Obama officially took office. Now what were you saying about John Q. being reasonable?

Which is the flip side of the Conspiratorial Belief System I first posited? Is it that people are too stupid to see the truth; the "sheeple" that presumptive arrogance sometimes labels those with simple lives and trust? Or is it that the opposite is a belief system that encourages trust and acceptance of our nominal superiors?

One can, and should, question everything that is told to them by government. However, when one starts altogether ignoring Occam's Razor in favour of 'cloak and dagger' explainations without any just cause for doing so, they may as well put on a tinfoil helmet and get a script for Thorazine. These types are simply a lost cause and are fundamentally no different than the "All American Patriot" who accepts everything the government feeds them as the gospel truth.

 

[David Biedny]

I've reopened this thread because of a long PM that someone sent me, but I've got to tell you, Anubis, I've read your little fucking rant and would really prefer if you stopped visiting these forums. You're ranting against Michael Moore, someone who has created films about the injustices of big government and big corporations, while trying to put RUSH FUCKING LIMBFUCK on a pedestal. Anyone who listens to my Angry Human show knows how I feel about Obama - I'm not a fan - but to see the kind of sick garbage emitting from your fingers just makes me ill. Please, I implore you, go away, don't come back to these forums. To think that I work so hard on doing this show, and it somehow has attracted someone like you to these forums, just makes me want to puke. Seriously, reading your messages on this thread makes me want to walk away from this show. If The Paracast has given you even one nanosecond of pleasure, go away and stay away.

dB

 

[cottonzway]

Nobody should every make you want to leave your own house IMO. It should ALWAYS be the other way around.

 

[Experiencer7]

seeds like these?

Don't starve to death. Eat Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh and the entire Fox news staff.

 

[CapnG]

You're ranting against Michael Moore, someone who has created films about the injustices of big government and big corporations

Not to put my head in a noose here David but you should be aware (if you aren't already) that Micheal Moore is no saint. The populist causes he champions may indeed be just but the way he goes about pursuing them is as duplicitous and as dirty as the greasiest Washington lobbyist. There's a Canadian-made documentary about Moore (the title escapes me at the moment) which disects his tactics including the utterly fraudulent "Walk into a bank and walk out with a gun" scene in Bowling for Columbine.

Like I said, I'm not really looking to get in the middle of this but if you're going to be intellectually honest, you need to look at all the information you can get, right?

 

[Anubis]

I've reopened this thread because of a long PM that someone sent me, but I've got to tell you, Anubis, I've read your little fucking rant and would really prefer if you stopped visiting these forums...

Isn't this rich?

David Biedny, a man who I have defended time and time again for his beliefs in the supernatural, has decided to take me to task because I think that 90% of the conspiracy nutters out there are fruitcakes.

For the record, David... Had you actually read what I wrote instead of flying off the handle like some high school hissy, you would realize that I look at Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Moore in exactly the same light. Their politics may be different, but they are both shameless propagandists for their particular political leaning. I guess you are simply to daft to grasp the concept that both of them are liars.

I listen to the Paracast because I enjoy both your stories and commentary on the paranormal. I do not listen to it to hear how pissed off you are with the politics of world. In fact, I find it petty that you constantly feel the need to broadcast such simply because you have an established audience. I am assuming that your 'Angry Human' rants are not as successful as you would like them to be... I wonder why that is?

To be perfectly blunt, if you are unable to seperate your personal political leanings from your job as moderator, you are not cut out for the job. You have singled me out and accused me of things I have not stated simply because I am not a fan of propogandists like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore. As such, you have proven yourself not to be an unbiased mediator, but another left-wing fanatic with an agenda. And now, when your readers thank me for injecting some common sense into a thread you seem to think meant more than it actually did, you single me out as if I am a just another right-wing Republican... Something, I can assure you, I am not (I actually live in Canada, Jackass!).

In closing, I'd like to point out that if you continue to act like a douchebag and attack everyone that disagrees with you, eventually there will be no point in moderating these forums at all. Then again, there will be no point for the Paracast to continue either. What a fucking beautiful thought.

I fully expect to be banned for what I have written here. I just hope that you take these words to reflect on what you are becoming.

It ain't healthy, dude.