Cookie jar or Pandora's box ?

[Ezechiel]

Who truly wants to lift the cover to find out ? and has Leslie Kean really thought this out ?

Robertson Panel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In their final report, they stressed that low-grade, unverifiable UFO reports were overloading intelligence channels, with the risk of missing a genuine conventional threat to the U.S. Therefore, they recommended the Air Force de-emphasize the subject of UFOs and embark on a debunking campaign to lessen public interest. They suggested debunkery through the mass media, including Walt Disney Productions, and using psychologists, astronomers, and celebrities to ridicule the phenomenon and put forward prosaic explanations. Furthermore, civilian UFO groups "should be watched because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking… The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind."

This should be theme of Leslie's next book

Measuring the full impact of a hypothetical capture/acquisition of an alien craft: a rational extension of the Robertson Panel.

UFO's or UAP's, in an earthly national defense/intelligence context are unwanted noise and interference with normal operations. From a military point of view the capture of an alien craft would be a potential 'cookie jar' but its disclosure could be Pandora's box on many levels.

Is getting a large part of the population converted from the 'angels and demons' platform to a rational galactic life platform even possible in 2013 ?

 

[Ezechiel]

An honest way to sum this up... can disclosure be done without 'loss of life' ?

 

[Trajanus]

Is getting a large part of the population converted from the 'angels and demons' platform to a rational galactic life platform even possible in 2013 ?

For some time polls have indicated a fairly high percentage of people consider UFOs real and ET.

 

[bbridges]

For some time polls have indicated a fairly high percentage of people consider UFOs real and ET.

I think the 'devil' could be in the details. But from the national security perspective, its value(the 'ufo') is its 'unidentified-ness." It's threat is also in its 'unidentified-ness.'

 

[Randall]

Who truly wants to lift the cover to find out ? and has Leslie Kean really thought this out? ...
Is getting a large part of the population converted from the 'angels and demons' platform to a rational galactic life platform even possible in 2013 ?

It seems that most who have spent some significant time studying the UFO phenomenon have had a dream of making a difference somehow. Leslie's is to try to get the government to crack the door open enough to let us peek inside, Chris has his SLV Project, Gene does the Paracast, Davenport proposed a passive radar detection system, Hynek started CUFOs, and the list goes on and on. I think all these efforts are well intentioned regardless of their chance of success, and after all, unless people actually try to make a difference, it's not likely to happen on its own. Grant it though, it's still always possible that the aliens will make their presence known in a manner that will leave no reasonable doubt in the minds of even the most hardened of skeptics.

But what gets frustrating is what people expect from us in the meantime. The skeptics want us to show them a real UFO, so what happens, Greer comes along and claims he can walk out into a field, flash some lights and summon UFOs through meditation. Well that really upped our credibility didn't it? Ironically if any of the work of Butch Witkowski is accurate, Greer's fan club should be happy that that so far, they've never gotten up close and personal with any UFO aliens. Everybody thinks that either they or somebody else has the answers. I think it's fair to say that some people within the Government have more information than we do, or at the very least could get it if they wanted to. Pandora's Box or Cookie Jar? Hmm ... Like I've said before, this genie is already out of the bottle and it aint going back in, so ...

... I'm leaning toward the cookie jar.​

 

[Trajanus]

I think the 'devil' could be in the details. But from the national security perspective, its value(the 'ufo') is its 'unidentified-ness." It's threat is also in its 'unidentified-ness.'

Assuming of course, crash retrieval stories aren't true.

 

[bbridges]

Assuming of course, crash retrieval stories aren't true.

Regardless.

 

[Ezechiel]

Interesting take on this

Contacting aliens spells doom for humans?

Noted science fiction writer and astrophysicist David Brin has expressed grave misgivings in a blog post that says the planet has not come to an agreement or created a protocol on what should be ported out to the great beyond.
Brin says most species invest a lot in protecting themselves from exposure to others to avoid being colonized, enslaved or even driven to extinction due to the unforeseen consequences of contact.
Sending messages with no cohesive agreement on content comes down to "hubris," he says, and is foolhardy.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

An honest way to sum this up... can disclosure be done without 'loss of life' ?

Birth always involves death!

 

[Jeff Davis]

If the US Government came out tomorrow and stated that, "Hey everybody, we know UFOs are real, duh. But honestly, we don't have a clue what they are, nor do we seem to have the slightest bit of influence over them. We just know that they have never shown us any real reason to suspect them as representing an eminent threat " would that be disclosure?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Nobody believes the government.

 

[Jeff Davis]

lol! I can see it now: "This is so and so from CNN and we have a BREAKING ANNOUNCEMENT. The US Government has just disclosed the fact that UFOs are REAL."

3 weeks later:

"This week on the Paracast we'll be discussing a gripping new conspiracy theory that has taken the Internet by storm. We'll be talking directly with so and so and his newly authored book on the alleged conspiracy against the American public to dupe them into believing this UFO thing is real."

 

[Ezechiel]

For some time polls have indicated a fairly high percentage of people consider UFOs real and ET.

What's important is what humans think they are. If an extra terrestrial sentient being is classified as an angel or demon within a religious framework you'll get a different response than if he is simply tagged as a traveller/explorer.

In 2013, interstellar travel is still considered 'magic' by humans. (dork-sided stuff) LMAO

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Oh, the God Warrior clip! I really try not to use the word hate, so let's just say that I strongly dislike that woman. Strongly.
Absolutely nothing to do with her being Christian either, she's just an attention seeking, self-centred something. The way she is shouting at her family when no-one is even arguing with her...aaaaahhhh - really grates me!

 

[Ezechiel]

Oh, the God Warrior clip! I really try not to use the word hate, so let's just say that I strongly dislike that woman. Strongly.
Absolutely nothing to do with her being Christian either, she's just an attention seeking, self-centred something. The way she is shouting at her family when no-one is even arguing with her...aaaaahhhh - really grates me!

You hit it on the nail... the displacement from an earth-centric perspective to a cosmic one on a societal scale is quasi-impossible in this generation. This scary character is really a massive embodiment of barriers to any type of disclosure that would challenge how her universe works. Attempt disclosure in any hard core 'bible-belt' area and you'll be chased out with pitch forks.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I agree. It's hard for me to accept that even though I'd be fine, overjoyed in fact, with news that pretty much trumps all religious nonsense, there are unfortunately people in the world who are so wrapped up in their whatever way of thinking that for them, it might be too much. People who have built their whole own existence around a particular way of thinking and living, well what happens to their minds if they are confronted with incontrovertible evidence that their beliefs are just plain wrong?

Having said that, if someone has say, chosen to live a 'christian' life and has gone about their lives acting reasonably to others and working hard etc, then there is no real reason they could not continue to live good lives if they found out for sure the stuff in the bible is just man-made and Jesus was not the son of God etc.

I wasn't intending to divert this into a religious post but while we're here, I wanna know if there are any Christians reading this who can tell me how they think Jesus ascended to heaven? After the 3 or so days, did he 'wake' zombie-style, move a big rock, then go walking, apparently animated and alive enough to speak to some women who didn't freak out at the 'walking corpse' and then he left and did what precisely then? People say he 'ascended to heaven', so I want to know if that means he bodily rose up into the sky (why is heaven 'up' the way?) or did he de-materialise like in Star Trek transporting or what? Where did the physical body that was Jesus Christ, go to?
Sadly, I think the only answer anyone will/can give is a total cop-out, which happens often I think when we are dealing with stuff that's been invented anyway, you can't invent a story and cover all the angles, as people in court often find out under cross-examination.

(I'll quickly state as I have before that half of my family are practising Christians and I have a lot of respect for them too, I'm going to visit them next week, so I am definitely not painting all Christians the same or stupid or anything like that cos I know it's not the case. I just don't buy it and I sincerely believe that many Christians, when absolutely forced to consider all the angles, can only say 'I believe....' and that's what it comes down to. It's really worrying what some people will do for beliefs too...)

 

[Randall]

... Attempt disclosure in any hard core 'bible-belt' area and you'll be chased out with pitch forks.

What still boggles my little brain is how a species with roughly the same sized brains and intellectual capacity can end up in such diametrically opposed worldviews. One would think that there should be some common thread, like truth for example, that should unify our perspectives. But then some soldier of Allah chops someone's head off with a freaking machete. As for Jesus, I haven't found sufficient evidence that this religious figure is anything more than part of Christian mythology. Yet there are people who believe in this myth so completely that without it, their lives would be thrown into a state of KAOS ( a Delaware Corporation ).

 

[Ezechiel]

What still boggles my little brain is how a species with roughly the same sized brains and intellectual capacity can end up in such diametrically opposed worldviews.

Its actually the spectacular intellectual gymnastics (in a world with limited science) around resolving existential and moral questions that created these worldviews. There had to be an answer for everything... and for fringe stuff, the catch-all: 'God works in mysterious ways'

For cultural reasons the different worldviews support different values under the same God. Simple stuff like gender equality becomes a huge problem for antiquated patriarchal cultures (Keep your burka on lady). LGBT rights is an abomination in the 'bible-belt'

There are many paradigm shifts between the human that existed 2000 years ago and the human reading this post. When the fringe becomes normal the fundamental house of cards gets blown away.