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Debate from May 23rd Show Continued...

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Please enlighten me... As i said I know the owner is a frequent poster on the JREF.
Does it really bother you that much that there's an official explanation to what happened? Please explain to me why you think that the government is responsible?
Again, no matter what I say, you're not going to agree - it's like arguing with a creationist.
 
So you are a member of a cult? I see.

BTW, posting something from either JREF or Popular Mechanics is like me posting an Infowars link and saying it is not bias. It would be like me having a debate with Gene on something and sourcing FOX NEWS for him. It holds to water. It is a bias source.
 
I'm here shaking my head. I thought you were going to be able to continue this and actually explain yourself, but now you're just attacking me.
James Randi has spoken at TED, along with a lot of other people that have been associated with the JREF, such as Michael Shermer. In my book, speaking at TED is an intellectual accomplishment that goes far in showing how well respected someone is in the world of science and critical thinking. I'll gladly take their word over that of Alex Jones and people like him that support NWO and Truther nonsense.
Obviously, since they have debunked so many of your beloved conspiracy theories, you will try your best to discredit them. I have a fear that your argument will spiral into a giant mess of logical fallacies. Unless you lay out a decent and coherent argument that won't devolve, you might as well close this thread since no one will care.
 
You attacked me as well with the "tin foil hat" and creationist comment so I am just returning it. Michael Shermer? JREF is a cult and Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Corp, a company that has a long history of Yellow Journalism. Hell, William Randolph Hearst started an actual war based on lies with his media publications. The actual term "Yellow Journalism" is associated to him. These are your sources. You belive them over the words of FBI agents and Lt. Col. in Army Intelligence.

I don't need to discredit them as they do that themselves. Many times over.
 
Okay, sorry about the Tin-Foil-Hat comment. You're right. I should practice what I preach, and I will not do it again.

However, you still haven't shown me why you believe what you do. Also, You've got two logical fallacies in one paragraph (please see below). The JREF is a cult? I didn't know that they were.
I'm someone that will take the time to listen to you if you can prove what you say. Right now, there's no compelling evidence to point to the fact that your government (or the NWO) was actively involved in attack on your country.

Logical Fallacies Ad Hominem (Personal Attack)

Logical Fallacies Appeal to Authority
 
How can you start your reply addressing you did the same thing and then end it with links to using ad hominem attacks? You just admitted you did that. That is about as hypocritical as it gets. Seriously.

I think that the "NWO" concept is an ideology that people have in either government or business that goes against teh actual laws of their country. I have explained this in greater detail on the previous thread. I've done quite a lot of reading on this too. I would suggest reading looks like Tragedy and Hope (Carroll Quigley), Superclass (David Rothkopf), The Grand Chess Board (Zbigniew Brzezinski), My Memoris (David Rockefeller), The First Global Revolution (Richard N Haass), and a slew of other books like this that relate to geopolitics and economics.

I don't know what happend on 9/11. I've read the report and the lack of important details on intelligence that was ignored by the panel deeply concerns me. It deeply concerns several of the former member of the panel as well. I tend to think we were training those guys for our own means and somone else gave them a different assignment and direction. I can't say it was the "gubmint" as I don't know that. I would think private interests would have been more likely to do that. There were Arabs terrorists used for sure, they did hijack planes, and they did crash them into the sites IMO. Why they were training at several US bases is a concern though. Why the head of the Pakistani ISI was in Washington meeting with Porter Goss and Bob Graham when he turned out to be the money man is concerning. Why there were so many war games that day is concerning, in particular the drill the NRO was doing as they could have stopped this IMO. I have tons of questions and little answers.

I go back to this guy as I think he has far more important things to say then Alex Jones or Jason Bermas on this issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Shaffer_(intelligence_officer)
 
cottonzway said:
How can you start your reply addressing you did the same thing and then end it with links to using ad hominem attacks? You just admitted you did that. That is about as hypocritical as it gets. Seriously.

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If I was a hypocrite, I would not have admitted to having done it, no? And with regards to the personal attacks link, it was more to point out that you were trying to discredit popular mechanics through association. Please read them - logical fallacies will ruin any argument you have if you're not careful. I know I've been guilty of using them in the past and I'm doing my best to avoid it.

Anyway, this is getting ridiculous. I can't see how you can give credit to the people you quote and you think I'm part of a cult and think the same thing about the stuff I'm looking at. We're just wasting our time here.
We have radical differences of opinion and philosophy and I don't think that'll change. Thanks for the list of books. I provide you with some suggestions as well. Read anything by Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan. Nothing to do with 9/11 (unless you count Dawkins' criticism of religion, which was one of the main causes of 9/11), but they are masters of critical thinking.
 
See, not a waste of time. :)

The books I suggested are by people who support the concepts of a "NWO", so to speak. If I were to suggest anything by people against it I would have to say books by F. William Engdahl are good place to look. Very intelligent man who makes good points IMO. Plus, Ron Paul too. :)
 
Angel of Ioren said:
Yeah - I guess you're right.
Just don't call the JREF a cult! I like James Randi - he's done a lot of good in exposing frauds.
Click to expand...

I can take it back about you personally, but I can't when talking about a lot of people there. I've been to JREF and that was my experence. It was like the ultimate in group think. This happens in many of the "9/11 truth" places too, so this is not exclusive. I disagree with a lot of that they have to say as well.
 
Ha. Born in South Philly so I am a life-long Flyers fan. Heck, you only need to read my sig to see that. :)

You guys at least have GSP. I am looking forward to seeing him destroy Josh Koscheck.
 
Angel of Ioren said:
If I was a hypocrite, I would not have admitted to having done it, no? And with regards to the personal attacks link, it was more to point out that you were trying to discredit popular mechanics through association. Please read them - logical fallacies will ruin any argument you have if you're not careful. I know I've been guilty of using them in the past and I'm doing my best to avoid it.

Anyway, this is getting ridiculous. I can't see how you can give credit to the people you quote and you think I'm part of a cult and think the same thing about the stuff I'm looking at. We're just wasting our time here.
We have radical differences of opinion and philosophy and I don't think that'll change. Thanks for the list of books. I provide you with some suggestions as well. Read anything by Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan. Nothing to do with 9/11 (unless you count Dawkins' criticism of religion, which was one of the main causes of 9/11), but they are masters of critical thinking.
Click to expand...

Popular Mechanics discredits its self with the 9/11 piece.
 
Angel of Ioren said:
You can't just say that. How do they discredit themselves? For example, I say Jason Bermas discredits himself by making outlandish statements and backing them up by quote mining.
Click to expand...

If you knew how the towers were built and you read their hit piece on how the towers fell, then you would know what I am talking about.
 
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