Did the Ancient Chinese Make Contact With Native Americans?

[Christopher O'Brien]

[Excellent article that looks at many similarities between aspects of the Shang Dynasty and 1000 BC Native American iconography; DNA studies and the propagation of plants and vegetables... A must read for diffusionist archaeology fans! — chris]

Article HERE:

By Tara MacIsaac/Epoch Times

It is commonly held that Native Americans are descended from people who traveled across the what is known today as the Bering Strait, between Siberia and Alaska, some 10,000 years ago. At the time, water levels were low and a land bridge emerged, connecting the continents. It is also commonly held that from the time of this crossing until about 1000 A.D. when the Vikings arrived, no expeditions brought explorers or colonists from the Old World to the New. Article HERE:

Yet some say that puzzling artifacts, as well as the results of recent DNA studies performed on Native Americans, may suggest contact between ancient China and North America.

John A. Ruskamp Jr. is a research analyst who has compared ancient Native American glyphs with ancient Chinese pictograms, finding what he says is a sure match between the two. The glyphs and pictograms date to a period long after the Bering Land Bridge crossing and long before modern contact between Chinese and Native American cultures. Geneticist Dr. Donald Yates has studied Native American DNA, finding what he believes may be genetic links to colonists from China’s ancient or medieval periods of history.

Yates hypothesizes that Native American genealogy is not as simple as commonly held. He says the ancestors of today’s Native Americans may not have come in a single migration. He thinks other boats may have landed on the shores of the New World, carrying explorers unknown to historians today....

....A Chinese account from 2200 B.C. describes the land of Fusang, which some say refers to North America. Charlotte Harris Rees has spent many years researching this connection, and she has delivered speeches on it at the Library of Congress in the United States, the National Library of China, and other locations around the world.

The ancient account, titled Shan Hai Jing, describes flora and fauna found in North America. These include, according to Rees, the opossum, armadillo, peccary, pronghorn, coyote, bald eagle, elephant seal, and appaloosa horse.

The directions given to travel from China to Fusang would indeed take one to Alaska. Fusang is said to be 20,000 li (li is a form of Chinese measurement; in ancient times, one li was equivalent to about 1/4 mile) away, which is roughly how far North America is from China. Rees said in her speech delivered to the Library of Congress in 2005: “Tong Fan Tso (who lived around the third century B.C.) stated that Fusang is 3,300 miles wide and is bounded by vast oceans and has huge trees. That is almost the exact width of America. How could someone in China that long ago have known this?”

 

[Burnt State]

we know that ancient seafarers and fisherman would have made ocean crossings all the time - impossible to believe, but they did it. we know from ancient Viking records and now ancient villages found on the east coast of north America and their writings of Vinland that they made it here. and if they could so could others. the ancients knew very well how to travel on water.

on the pacific side of things I heard a geographical historian who identified in a lecture both the facial structures of indigenous sculptures in the Americas as examples of east Asian visitation along with the large circular stone donuts littering different west coast landscapes that were Chinese boat anchors. we're also just starting to get a handle on the Americas getting populated from the south as opposed to the traditional views of the Bering Strait as the crossover zone.

our modern blind spot is always underestimating the skill, technology and determinations of our early ancestors. they were smart, tenacious and highly skilled using very innovative technologies and sophisticated systems and means of organizing themselves and driving their cultures. what I always find interesting are those moments where the civilization just suddenly up and collapses, where they just decide one day to eat all their cattle, make some big sacrifices and then destroy and bury their own community and structures. what caused these implosions - did they know that they were about to be squeezed out by someone else's new technology and that their way of life was getting nudged out? did bronze era tool builders destroy the Orkney island peoples the way that Christian Spaniards desolated the way indigenous americans saw their own gods, culture and way of being?

and just to extend to the paranormal discussion a bit, do ufo's pose an actual socio-cultural threat that may have contributed to the obfuscation of their reality by the protectors of our culture and social structures?

 

[manxman]

Since time man started to built boat, man get lost in boat.

Old Manx proverb [he just spoke Chinese]

 

[Solarion]

The epoch times article has confirmed my belief that we will have to accept the fact that our ancestors have carved out a global culture earlier then we thought.

 

[Robert Baird]

Monte Verde - end of Clovis lies

There is over a million years of proof for sea travel by humanity. The stuff that passes for academic fact is in fact fiction!!! It is worse than just fiction - it hides evidences including the use of WMDs against the people in pre-Columbian America as well as the people in Europe which some elites wanted to eliminate. You should be concerned about the same stuff today. The existence of Nations (Manifest Destiny and Divine Rights) is a blight upon people and other life on Earth. There are many Hide the Ball agendas including most of what is laughingly called UFO research. Research is open-minded not ego driven insecure and brainwashed people exchanging what particular brainwashing they are buying at present. In order to defeat the brainwashing of many millennia humans must ecumenically agree to fundamental similarities and start to thrash out a forward looking plan to at the very least expose the brainwashing efforts. Maybe even do what JFK said he was going to do upon his return to Washington - disband the CIA.

A million years BEFORE Atlantis!

One post from the above.

David Pratt tells us people came to the Americas millions of years ago - and I can support a couple of those millions.

Herein lies a lot of truth, be careful if you still fear the churchians who scared you with Dragons at the edge of the Earth or teachers who taught you people believed in a Flat Earth even while travelling the oceans.

"In 1512 Pope Julius II tried to explain why the Christian Bible failed to mention the American Indians and their continent. He declared that although the Indians were descendants of Adam and Eve, and therefore human, their ancestors were Babylonians who had been expelled from the Old World on account of their sins. God had apparently lost sight of them, and somehow they had managed to survive the flood.

The theory of the peopling of the Americas that became scientific orthodoxy in the mid-20th century is no less fabulous: the Americas were empty of humans until about 14,000 years ago when migrants from Northeast Asia trekked over the Bering land bridge, and with the exception of a brief visit by the Vikings in the 11th century, the first person to subsequently discover the Americas was Christopher Columbus in 1492.

More recently, the possibility of migrations up to several tens of thousands of years earlier than 14,000 BP has been accepted by many scientists. There is evidence, however, that North, Central, and South America were settled by migrants from different parts of the world over the course of millions of years, and that even in the past 5000 years explorers and traders from various continents visited the Americas before Columbus."

The Ancient Americas (1)

Bucky Fuller knew what it took to develop geometry and trigonometry through ocean travel by the stars. He would agree with me that Flores Island artifacts of 825,000 years ago prove advanced man was there a million years ago and that it took time for that human to get there, away from his culture or civilization. I don't think he would simply state it was homo habilis and a less evolved human given the Black Skull and many other finds that make any evolutionary tree impossible to affirm according to the discoverer of Lucy. I know Bucky would love conversing with one member of the team who found Lucy in the Olduvai Gorge area - I refer to Hank Wesselman. Hank has become a major scientific proof of shamanic mind development.

The extent of ignorance and the continued acceptance of myths created before Nazism but which served the Nazis well is amazing. The next link is one of the best encapsulations of the current nonsense you might even get to see on TV. The Rosicrucians did not become the Illuminati who have been large and in charge since the time of Tuthmosis if not before. But I could tear the whole thing to shreds and there are a hundred threads I have already put here which do just that. I do admit these myths have a lot better history than I was taught in school. The matter of genetic interbreeding included in this link as well as the dimensional aspects of Tesla's work is a theory I support.

http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.ca/...lizations.html

In the Wiki article on Platonic solids they say there have been earlier examples in places like Scotland, which have been found. It is good to see them say they have no idea when such things were understood. Then they go into trying to say who described them in written records first. It is important to remember that the totality of astrological knowledge is related and so is the Earth Energy Grid. Also keep in mind that astrolabes such as the Antikythera were used to locate valuable metals. Wiki then says these words -The fifth Platonic solid, the dodecahedron, Plato obscurely remarks, "...the god used for arranging the constellations on the whole heaven". Aristotle added a fifth element, aithêr (aether in Latin, "ether" in English) and postulated that the heavens were made of this element, but he had no interest in matching it with Plato's fifth solid.[3]

So obscure was Plato that he kept his life and Aristotle spoke nothing of it either. Thus they avoided the summary execution they would have suffered if they spilled the beans about the Pentagon-Dodecahedron.

There are many codes, I have no doubt
The meaning certain to freak you out
But all the visions of anti-Christ
Are projections there, you pay a price

I cannot say every system is of no concern but I have not seen numbers cause any specific action to occur. Yes, the four powers primary and secondary are in mandalas, and along with an invisible force binding all (Kether in the Tree of Life) they offer a lot of learning. The forces do flow along lines and can be directed through intent imbedded in systems and mandalas etc. I do know symbols affect our mind and soul, and numbers like letters are symbols in the beginning. Neuro-Linguistics is certainly not new and it is used in psychiatry as well as by agencies like the CIA. Memetics has a powerful influence but just how much of it is due to our fears built up over millennia of exposure, such as the Swastika? Does astrology really work, and is it an exacting mathematical science we could learn? I have not learned it that well but I know people who have, and have seen applied knowledge from it, work wonders.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...nspiracy39.htm

My friend Dennis Fetcho is a major league specialist in gematria and you can say he invented the Isisian Code he explores at length. I think the ancient Kelts and DNN including Isis and Osiris developed many ways to manifest reality including all alphabets. They became known as Phoenicians which I have amply proven in many threads (Ogham and Aymara included). This 'manifesting of reality' takes time and is like the alchemical tincture, insidious and undetectable after established inside your mind or our collective soul. Here are a few words from The Fetch as Dennis is sometimes called.

"The Roman numbering system, like much of Greco-Roman culture, has survived and prospered through two millenia. The very survival of the Roman numbering system hints at a larger necessity: the survival of the Roman numbering system is integral to the larger Letter-Number system of the Western Illuminati. Without the mathematical values of the Roman numbering system, a larger, composite philosophy within Western occult constructions could not be assembled into a composite whole.

Within the Roman numbering systems holds adumbration's of a larger truth. Thus there is a necessity to preserve the Roman numbering system precisely because within the Roman numbering system lay hidden key details to a larger luminous system. This luminous philosophical system lies, further, beyond the reach of any single cultural perception.

It was the Greek's via Pythagorus, and later, the Romans, who utilized and taught the idea of "letters as numbers". The idea that "letters and numbers are as one, inseparable" remains at the very core of the Illuminatus, or Qaballistic, system. It was the later Hebrews would would morph Pythagorean ideas on meta-numerics into their "Torah" and ideas of "Kabballah".

Clearly, one of the inital, and primary (Qaballistic) codes based on Letters/Numbers was the Roman (and Greek) numbering system(s).

The preservation of this core Letter/Number philosophical codes would be necessary and, so, like silent sentinels from the past, Roman numbering may to this day be found gracing the facades of architecture, books, coins, as well as being prominently displayed in the modern era in the Arts in the form of "film"."


http://illuminatusobservor.blogspot....#axzz3ckpIGJQr

 

[Cat Jockey]

Geneticist Dr. Donald Yates has studied Native American DNA, finding what he believes may be genetic links to colonists from China’s ancient or medieval periods of history.

And therein lies the truth, the part I bolded. Medieval. We do not know pretty much anything prior to about 1000 AD. All of these, umm, 'ancient' texts of folks like the Roman Historians just all suddenly appeared in the Middle Ages after being lost for centuries.

There is a Russian Mathematician, well respected, and the head of Differential Mathematics at Moscow University that has about 3 decades invested in exposing the conspiracy of the Historical Chronology, fabricated by the Jesuits in the 1500-1600's. One timeline, basically 1000 AD to the 1600's, was triplicated. Names, dates and locations were changed, and the Historical Chronology was elongated by a couple thousand years. This includes the Biblical Kings. Things like the Roman Coliseum are NOT 2,000 years old. That particular structure was built in about 1400, and the dude referred to as Jesus was a Byzantine Emperor, who was born circa 1185.

History is one big CIRCULAR ARGUMENT. Some dude finds and Ancient Roman text (that just happened to conveniently appear in the Middle Ages, after being, umm, 'lost' for centuries), that states there was this place called Carthage in Northern Africa. Said dude than comes across some ruins and says, "Aha! This is Carthage," according to these 'ancient' texts. The ruins prove the text and the text proves the ruins and time frame. It is one big circular argument.

It is a very complex theory, and well thought and researched. Coming around to over here, ever wonder how the Anasazi just disappeared one day and the Aztecs show up in Mexico City pretty much the next day? Look into the genetic and linguistic roots of the Navajo, and others in the area.

It is NOT easy to grasp, one must have a pretty broad understanding of the Historical Chronology and World History in General to truly give it a reasoned consideration. Now, even more interesting is the mining that took place through out the Rocky Mountains, and some of these 'Evil Priest' Treasure Legends. The Aztecs thought they were gaining some benefit from ripping out all of those hearts, how do you know they weren't?

This is quite the Rabbit Hole, the work of the Jesses, but provides much meaning to 'things'. My opinion, of course, and one support by a whole bunch 'o research by a few really, really smart Russian Mathematicians.

 

[Robert Baird]

It is not what you say. The part you bolded is true as is the few words before it. ANCIENT.

The smart mathematician is not on point either.

DNA mapping now shows the Ainu populated all of Polynesia and the Pacific coast of the Americas just as Chatters said with the Kennewick Man - dated to over 9,000 years ago.

I take it to 150,000 years ago and before. That is proven by botany on the Hawaiian Islands, 500,000+ years ago on or in Indonesia we have art - as of last year. 825,000 years ago on Flores Island we have human artifacts.

The whole of history has been a lie to support Empire. Those who write the scriptures also called their ancestors aliens - in order to claim all knowledge.

 

[Cat Jockey]

The smart mathematician is not on point either.

I am curious as to if you know the name of the 'smart mathematician', and whether or not you have read the several thousand pages he has published in a 7 volume set, as I have, and have even a rudimentary understanding of the the theory, or if you are just saying he is wrong with no actual research or insight and contemplation of said research, because you have made up your mind and claim to KNOW what was going on 1,000+ years ago with the global human civilization and structure.

The whole of history has been a lie to support Empire. Those who write the scriptures also called their ancestors aliens - in order to claim all knowledge.

We seem to be in semi-agreement there, concerning 'The Empire'. I'm talking about the fabricated Historical Choronology, the actual written History, supposedly going back thousands of years to the Biblical Kings. You seem to be talking about something else, but perhaps I misunderstood ...

 

[Robert Baird]

In this thread alone you have ample proof of mine (with well accepted references) that prove history is not as he says. I have written far more books and have loads of well referenced factual reasons to say what I say.

But you are not "curious" as you say - you are merely egotistically involved in trying to promote more NONsense - like all alien interventionists including Yurchey.

 

[Cat Jockey]

In this thread alone you have ample proof of mine (with well accepted references) that prove history is not as he says. I have written far more books and have loads of well referenced factual reasons to say what I say.

But you are not "curious" as you say - you are merely egotistically involved in trying to promote more NONsense - like all alien interventionists including Yurchey.

Wow. Lol. I even use words like 'my opinion' and get called egotistical because of my subscription to a very detailed theory supported by things like specially designed software and statistical analysis and 30 years of research. What's yer deal? A bit defensive? A bazillion books have been written about all manner of subjects, and the fact you have written some is in NO way 'proof' that you have written things 100% accurately - hmm, did someone say egotistical? Perhaps you should look in a mirror the next time you feel compelled to use that word with me ...

Let's go over some of your stuff in this thread that supposedly disproves a theory you don;t seem to be familiar with, shall we?

So obscure was Plato that he kept his life and Aristotle spoke nothing of it either.

There was no Plato that existed when and where claimed. His 'works were all created well after 1,000 AD, and the 'real' Plato was a dude named Gemisto Plethon

Georgius Gemistus (Greek: Γεώργιος Γεμιστός; c. 1355 — 1452/1454), later called Plethon (/ˈpliːθɒn, -θən/) or Pletho (/ˈpliːθoʊ/; Πλήθων), was a Greek scholar of Neoplatonic philosophy. He was one of the chief pioneers of the revival of Greek learning in Western Europe. In the dying years of the Byzantine Empire, he advocated a return to the Olympian gods of the ancient world.[1]

He re-introduced Plato's thoughts to Western Europe during the 1438—1439 Council of Florence, a failed attempt to reconcile the East-West schism. Here Pletho met and influenced Cosimo de' Medici to found a new Platonic Academy, which, under Marsilio Ficino, would proceed to translate into Latin all Plato's works, the Enneads of Plotinus, and various other Neoplatonist works.

The ancient Plato is supposed to have been the founding father of Platonism. His teachings allegedly falls into oblivion for centuries to come, and is revived by the famous Neoplatonist Plotin, allegedly in 205-270 A.D. The similarity of his name to that of his teacher is purely accidental, of course. Then Neoplatonism perishes as well, in order to be revived again in the XV century A.D. by another famous Pltonist - Gemisto Pleton, whose name is also identical to that of his teacher as a result of sheer coincidence. The mediaeval Pleton is supposed to have revived the "ancient" Platonism, having been an advid advocate of "the ancient sage Plato." Furhermore, it is only in the XV century that Plato's manuscript was unearthed ([247], pages 143-147). This is precisely the epoch of Gemisto PLeton.

Pleton founds "Pleton's Academy" in Florence in the image of the "ancient" Plato's Academy ([247]). A. A. Vasiliev writes that "His [Pleton's - A.F.] sojourn in Florence … had been one of the most important periods for Italy when it was importing the ancient Greek Science, and Plato's philosophy in particular"([675], Volume 3, Pt. 2; [120]).

Both Plato and PLeton write Utopian works. Genisto Pleton is reported to have been the author of the famous Tractate on the Laws, which sadly failed to reach us in tis entirety. However, the full text of Plato's tractate by the same title did ...

Plotin and Plato are doppelgängers. The Chronolgy elongated, and the story of about 1000 A.D. to about 1700 A.D. was retold by changing names, dates, and geographic locations. There was ever only one Plato - Gemsito Pletho. His story was just retold three times changing details to elongate the Chronology.

Within the Roman numbering systems holds adumbration's of a larger truth.

It most definitely does hold a larger truth, but you and I will disagree upon what truths the Roman numbering system holds. Think about this one, Robert:

Roman numerals supposedly remained the predominant representation of numbers in European culture until the 14th century. How did the ancient Romans succeed in their calculations and complicated astronomical computations? It is believed that in the 3rd century, the Greek mathematician Diophantus was able to find positive and rational solutions to the following system of equations, called Diophantic today

x31 + x2 = y3
x1 + x2 = y.

According to historians, at the time of Diophantus, only one symbol was used for an unknown, a symbol for "plus" did not exist, neither was there a symbol for "zero." How could Diophantic equations be solved using Greek letters or Roman numerals (see Figure 2)? Can these solutions be reproduced? Are we dealing here with another secret of ancient history that we are not supposed to question? Let us point out that even Leonardo da Vinci, at the beginning of the 16th century, had troubles with fractional powers. It is also interesting that in all of da Vinci's works, there is no trace of "zero" and that he was using 22/7 as the approximation of p - probably it was the best approximation of p available at that time.

Explain that one, Robert, how Diophantic equations could be solved with the numbering system available to the SUPPOSED 'ancient' Greeks and Romans. DOn't waste too much time, for you will not be able to offer an explanation. I can, though. And that is becasue I am indeed both CURIOUS (despite your claim - again, dude, you have read a couple posts from me and thin you have ANY type of understanding of my mind - laughable) AND OPEN MINDED.

Pardon me for being brief in this post, but I am dealing with pneumonia right now. I just glanced at your posts and found 'problems', let me go through them more thoroughly today and then I'll make MY OWN decision about whether the few words you have in this thread does any such thing as you claim.

Just as a cursory introduction into how this problem with the Historical Chronology was discovered:

In 1972, American astrophysicist Robert Newton publishes a paper dealing with Lunar acceleration over the course of a couple thousand years. When it was all said and done, an unexpected and unexplainable 'leap' occurred in one of the acceleration parameters, and it was a big one. It was of the magnitude of a whole mathematical order, and it occurred around the X century. Didn't make sense. So a little later that year there was some amount of controversy about it all and the Royal Society of London and the British Academy of Sciences organized a discussion about it. They came up with nothing. In the end, Robert Newton suggested that they just write the whole thing off as being caused by some mysterious extra-gravitaional forces in the Earth-Moon system.

Lol. "Ah hell, boys, we can't figure it out. Why don't we just call it 'Magic' and go get some bangers and mash down at the pub and call it a day."

In 1973, Fomenko (our 'smart mathematician' and 'team leader') became aware of the problem and began to work on it. One thing he discovered is that NOBODY questioned the veracity of the data set. The data set included dates for Lunar and Solar eclipses that had occurred going back to the first century. Never did any of those guys question if the dates given by the Falsified Chronology were correct. Fomenko had heard of Morozov's work, but in no way was anything resembling a subscriber. And when he found Morzov's book and used some of the corrected astronomical tables for dates, he was still a skeptic of the whole notion - he was jsut being a good, critical, open minded scientist and looking for a solution and way to determine the validity and accuracy of the original data set.

When he plugged Morozov's numbers into Robert Newton's algorithm's, that mysterious, and significantly and quite abnormally large 'leap' in acceleration around the X century disappeared, and everything behaved as it should and was expected. Use the right data set, and you don't have to invent Magic Forces. From there, the next question is obvious. Why are the dates of the Falsified Chronology so apparently wrong, and what are the correct ones?

Additionally, others have question the Falsified Chronology, as well:

DeArcilla - 16th century Professor at Salmanca University who determined that 'ancient' History was forged in teh Middle Ages.

Issac Newton - (1643-1727) Concluded the chronology of the Classical Age was wrong, and even attempted his own corrected version of the Chronology.

Jean Hardouin - (1646-1729) Eminent French scientist and Director of the French Royal Library concluded that most 'ancient artifacts' were either counterfeit or much more recent than claimed.

Peter Krekshin (1684 -1763) Personal Secretary of Peter the Great. Concluded the same kind of stuff about the Chronology.

Robert Baldauf - (late 1800's-1900's) German scholar of Basel University wrote 4 volumes on the issue, concluding that the 'ancient' literary works are much more recent than claimed.

Edwin Johnson (1842-1901) English Historian who concluded that the Falsified Chronology needs to be drastically truncated.

Nikolai Morozov (1854-1946) Prominent Russian scientist and Encyclopedist. Same conclusions. He wrote a book about it, lectures, etc.

Wilhelm Kammeyer (?-1959) German scientist and lawyer who developed a method of verifying the age of 'ancient' documents, and discovered nearly all 'ancient' and Mediaeval Western European documents to be either copied or forged in a more recent time.

Gary Kasparov (chess dude), independent of Fomenko, questions the Chronology. See if you can answer this question of Gary's:

Once I spoke about this subject among a group of English
intellectuals. One of them was a professor on Roman Law at one of the leading British universities (without giving the name for him not to be embarrassed). And I asked him one question. I asked him, I don’t want to go into mathematics, or armour, or ammunition, or military inventory because those are not your subjects. Let’s talk about something that is entirely your field. What was the official language of the Byzantine Empire? According to official history, Emperor Constantine moved the capital from Rome to Constantinople. So, at that time, he moved his court and most of the bureaucrats to the new capital. They couldn’t start speaking another language, it means they came with the Latin language. So, at what time - according to historians the official language of the Byzantine Empire was Greek - when did the official transfer actually happen?

He said, maybe sometime in the sixth or the seventh century.

And I said, but the Justinian Codex, the rule of law in the Byzantine
Empire which was produced by Emperor Justinian, it was written in Latin.

And he looked at me . . . he knew that I knew already that the only
original copy was found in the beginning of the sixteenth century -
amazing the sixteenth century - in Italy, in Latin. So there is no
original text in Greek.

And he said, yes it was in Latin.

So I said, excuse me, can you explain to me and to other people, how come that the entire - while the official language was Greek and
everybody presumably spoke Greek, I mean ordinary people - how come they used Latin documents for jurisdiction, for the court, for official documents, because you can’t use an unknown language in the courtroom where you solve the problems of all the people.

Now he said . . . it’s a mystery we haven’t solved yet.

Gary also said in that interview:

TT: What kind of reactions have you had to these ideas?

GK: Mostly people are very arrogant. And they get very defensive, or
very insulting, because they don’t want to hear about it. It’s like you
are destroying their family branch.

Is he speaking about you, here, Robert? I am not even coming close to scratching the surface with all of this.

I have THICK SKIN, Robert, so insult me all you want, lol. You, however, seem to be quite defensive and perhaps skinned a little thinner, as well as quite quick to start insulting people you do not know concerning theories about which you are not educated ...

 

[Robert Baird]

Glad to hear you have thick skin. You will need it now that I see some of what you are promoting is even worse than alien intervention - though I am still not sure you are not one of those delusionals. Kasparov is a proven paranoid delusional - so you can fool around that issue if you like.

I don't know which one to take on first. Take Rome itself.

You say Newton took on the false chronology of history. Yes, there is an issue in history with various chronologies but not proof at all of what you are selling (and an ego you certainly exhibit is all you have - you are not thinking or giving a specific about his work or even where he came from or what he was). Velikovsky (for example) did a good factual challenge due to Greek tiles found in or near Memphis. But this is to be expected when the whole of history we were taught as Classical is based on the Bible Narrative (It is an alien theory - elohim, Annunaki, Gilgamesh's Oannes etc..). Ptolemy directed Manetho to concoct a King's List to prove his ancestors were the DNN including Herakles.

It was a good guess - you could say. I do not - and I fill in the gaps for ten thousand years. Those gaps include the founding of Rome, Etruria, why those medieval castles are on Sardinia going back to 1800 BCE, etc.. I mention that one because you are focussing on Latin - and I know where it comes from too. In the matter of Greek origins before Latin I address it even more certainly but suffice it to say Velikovsky did not. Academia has caught up to the few hundred year matter he struggled with but as Rick Gore of Nat Geo says in his article on that era - anyone writing about the Sun Kings or the Moses/Akhenaton era is writing fiction. He quotes the Disney Professor of Archaeology saying the same thing. I think he is an Oxford man but it could be Cambridge.

Greek was indeed spoken by the Catholic hegemony. It was also one of two subjects taught at Oxford during the Dark Ages. All other institutions taught just one subject - Latin. The argument being that was the only language of merit because that is what the Bible was written in. But in fact, the earlier Bibles were written in other languages and Greek was the best source for what Rome was lying to create - a bigger Empire. That starts becoming widely accepted now - look up Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome - No Jesus by Atwill (a video). It is far less than what I earlier wrote in many books starting with a task set for me by Ogham scholars in 1991. Ogham is the language of the Druids and yet Britannica (now Wiki) will tell you it did not exist until 400AD. Funny thing Rome long before that (Three separate Emperors) put a bounty on the head of Druids.

Next up - "Georgius Gemistus (Greek: Γεώργιος Γεμιστός; c. 1355 — 1452/1454), later called Plethon (/ˈpliːθɒn, -θən/) or Pletho (/ˈpliːθoʊ/; Πλήθων), was a Greek scholar of Neoplatonic philosophy. He was one of the chief pioneers of the revival of Greek learning in Western Europe. In the dying years of the Byzantine Empire, he advocated a return to the Olympian gods of the ancient world.[1]

He re-introduced Plato's thoughts to Western Europe during the 1438—1439 Council of Florence, a failed attempt to reconcile the East-West schism. Here Pletho met and influenced Cosimo de' Medici to found a new Platonic Academy, which, under Marsilio Ficino, would proceed to translate into Latin all Plato's works, the Enneads of Plotinus, and various other Neoplatonist works."

Perhaps you will have an explanation how this person was a neoplatonic philosopher doing "revivals" and yet Plato did not exist.

Ficino is important as are the De Medicis. They tasked him to translate the whole work of Hermes Trismegistus called the Corpus Hermeticum. They had their clan name put on that book - De Brix! Going way back before vowels - that is BRX, my family is BRD. Rome was founded like Britain by the BRT - see Bruttium of Pythagoras and his teacher Abaris (Rabbi) the Druid. The last letters distinguish location. The first letter is key - the BEES. Check out the robe of napoleon when he was made Holy Roman Emperor.

Now maybe you can prove Plato and the Corpus are connected - they are; because Plato is an alchemist. Hermes is a myth or amalgam just like Jesus who Rome created in the Gospels many years after all the apostles were dead or dying. Paul/Saul was a Roman and an assassin - see stoning Stephen and an attempt on the older brother of Yeshua. Paul is a proven liar but he might indeed be a Benjaminite as he claimed despite not being from the Pharisaic school of Gamaliel as we KNOW - we have their records. Tarses to Tarshis and Tartessus are important in the true history and he is said to be from this corporate venture which spanned the whole Old World and beyond. Homer's work talking about the 'underworld' is addressing the Americas and there were 19 separate theatres of war - most likely followed by another Dark Age destruction of all history. That one lasted 400 years. Isaac Newton was an author on the Dan family (DNN or DN of Homer - Danaus who founded Greece).

Should you actually wish to learn about these things - go to World-Mysteries and the forum there.

Should you wish to address the Roman numerals go to the source for that quote of mine - Dennis Fetcho at the Illuminatus Observer.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Kasparov is a proven paranoid delusional

Dude, I am neither impressed nor intimidated by your insults, or your books and THEORIES (not to be confused with facts). How 'bout before I read the rest of your post (that starts with insults and I suspect is laden with more) you provide the PROOF of this claim, since you claim it to be proven. How about everyone else I mentioned? Was Isaac Newton a 'paranoid delusional'? And Fomenko? And the others I mentioned? You are going to have to give me some time because of the illness I am dealing with, but, this looks like it is going to be quite fun with you, dude. You seem a bit 'touchy' about it all, lol.

You made a claim about Kasparov, Robert. Now PROVE IT. Start there if you want to impress me ...

Pride goeth before thy fall, Robert, and I gots me no problems about being the one to trip your arrogant self up ...

Btw, ad hominem attacks are about the most TRANSPARENT form of AVOIDING actual open minded discussion. What, do I have you a bit skeered? Lol.

 

[Robert Baird]

I was not suggesting you were a paranoid - but if you put paranoid in your browser with Kasparov you will find lots of Lone Wolf psychology - which is not all true.

But I have long ago addressed Kasparov and made my conclusion they are right about his mental illnesses which go far further than just paranoia. You mention you are sick - and you have opened a door for what kind of trash you promote there - to be sure.

I will no longer reply to you here - I am removing the notification for your responses. I already addressed your total fictions quoting people who you have not studied like Newton. You could add me to your list of those who question historical chronologies - but you would be wrong to say I support the utter crap you are promoting. Your own source proves (it is from Wiki) that you are wrong about Plato not existing - I quoted the next paragraph which goes further in proving you either cannot read or are under the influence of fevers and hallucinations. I did that at W-M where I have lots of proof for you to read and learn - which I am near to certain will not be of interest to you.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Robert, I specifically quoted you saying Kasparov is a PROVEN 'paranoid delusional'. I also asked you if you thought Newton and Fomenko, et al, were the same. And I asked you to provide the evidence, since you claimed it was PROVEN. I didn't say you were calling me paranoid, I was asking you to SUPPORT your assertion that Kasparov is PROVEN to be:

You made a claim about Kasparov, Robert. Now PROVE IT. Start there if you want to impress me ...

Nowhere did I mention myself in that, with you calling me a 'paranoid delusional' - why are you making things up about my posts, especially when it is all right there for anyone to read?

I am going to read every post of yours in this thread, and then provide more information about Fomenko's theory, one to which after a few years of contemplation, I subscribe. I just showed up here, and am not really interested in name calling and pissing contests, as you seem to be. The reason I came here is because of my interest in the SLV and what has transpired there over the course of centuries, as well as things like Skinwalker Ranch. That is how I found out about this forum - a paracast on youtube discussing the issue, and I liked the conversation that took place. I then proceeded to read a bunch of threads and found the comment I pointed out from the OP quite interesting due to its tie-in with my own research, and obviously wanted to initiate further conversation.

After your saying you have written books, Google pointed me towards your World Mysteries site (I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that is your site). It won't be until this evening, but I will flesh out a bit more the concept I subscribe to, and how some of that may (a theory I am exploring) tie into things like Skinwalker Ranch, etc.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Before I read your certitude of wisdom and correctness you state exists in this thread, Robert, let me just take a break from your name calling (from me being egoistical and non-curious for expressing my opinion, and you claiming other people, like Kasparov, to be a 'proven paranoid delusional') and just talk about this theory I support. The essence is that there is one known written historical account, and it covers, roughly, 1,000 AD to about 1700 AD. That one known historical record was then copied, changing names, locations and dates to extend said historical record 2,500+ years into the past.



In the bottom right corner is the actual historical record that exists (again, like anything you have ever written, this a theory and my OPINION that I subscribe to and think to be most likely true, so I speak as though I think it true), with K,R,P,S,&N simply being a 'breakdown' of specific periods. As you can see, Fomenko places the written record extent only back to 962 AD and up to 1619 AD as the known record, with the falsification being completed in the 17th century. S1 is the Biblical history shifted forward by about 1800 years, with most of the Old Testament occurring after the events of the New Testament.

From there, there are three other shifts, one of 333 years, another of 1053 years, and yet one more of 1778 years. These shifts were all done backwards in time to elongate the known historical record by 2,500+ years, and the corresponding letters all show what part of the actual historical record were modified (change in names, minor details, locations, etc.) to create the what Fomenko calls the Scaligerian Chronology, after a dude named Scaliger who constructed said Chronology, and what I refer to as simply the Falsified Chronology. After stumbling upon the celestial mechanics issue that produced a whacked out leap that should not exist, Fomenko noted that said issue relied upon historical records of things like lunar eclipses, etc., from works like Ptolemy's Amalgamest and that none of the other mathematicians or physicists even bothered to question the validity of that historical data - they simply accepted it as unimpeachable fact.

That visual representation was arrived at by applying mathematics to the issue, mainly some statistical analysis, not simply guessing or hypothesizing. With this I am in pretty much full agreement with Fomenko (and let's be frank, neither you nor I can check Fomenko's math - the dude is one of the best mathematicians (he is also a physicist) in the world). From there, he constructed his version of events, what really happened between about 1000 AD - 1700AD. With this reconstruction, I do not agree 100%, but I do agree with a whole bunch. It should be noted that on the reconstruction end, Fomenko himself calls for a multi-disciplinary academic involvement to try to work out the minutiae and details. He does not go as far as you are coming across in this thread; namely I [Robert] know everything, my opinion is fact, and if you disagree you are egotistical and non-curious. Lol.

Now, as far as that reconstruction, Fomenko places the 'birth' of the known civilization to start around the Nile Delta (I don't agree with this part), and then quickly moves up to the Constantinople area (where I think it all started, with the Nile being a place moved into later, as the Royal Graveyard). This is what I call The Empire, and has been represented in the Falsified Chronolgy as the 'ancient' Romans, Greeks, etc. The capital of The Empire then shifted a few times, from one side of the Bosporus to the other, and then up into Kiev. One of the last known ruling families of said Empire were the Hapspurgs, after which a cessation of their ultimate control split into two major factions at first, as represented by the Pope dividing the whole damn world up between little pissant Portugal and Spain in the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494. And one can think of Spain and Portugal as nothing more than outposts, and not necessarily the actual home of said ruling parties after too much brother/sister lovin' by the Hapsburgs spelled their downfall, among other things.

And, again, this isn't even scratching the surface of the reconstruction, who's who in History, where power structures were based, etc. This is not his theory in a nutshell, for the nutshell would probably be a couple hundred pages long.

I don't know if the site I referenced is yours, but if it is, you seem awfully proud of books you were reading at a young age. Just so ya know who you are talking to, I am 43 year old knucklehead that sought pleasure for my Soul, above all else, and spent my adult life as a skibum, walking away from college with a year left for degrees in Electrical Engineering and Mathematics and a waiting career in the Aerospace industry in my mid-20's, first supporting that habit in the bar & nightclub industry, and then transferring to being a whitewater raft guide and snowcat operator at about 30. And then, about 4-5 years ago, all the crashing and physical abuse added up, and I exploded some discs in my back, leading to an end to those careers, and then a very, very meager living now being made doing some freelance/ghost writing for Internet Marketers in the last few years. However, Robert, I spent 1-8th grade at a Jesuit school, and was in an advanced reading program, where I was reading things like Plato's Republic (well it was actually the works of that Gemisto Plethon fella I mentioned, not some dude named Plato that never existed) in grade school, and then on to a College Prep and advanced placement classes. I do not say that to brag, as you seem to on your about page, simply to let you know that I ain't impressed with your bragging, buddy. And yes, the Nuns would be horrified of my own grammar I use, all the sentences I end in prepositions, etc., lol. I just do my own thing with that stuff, lol. So, you can back down your 'smarter than you' approach with me, for I am quite unimpressed with all of that. And while you are proud to pump out a book every six weeks, I am ALWAYS more concerned with quality over quantity.

Now, how this all ties into the paranormal is first the Secret Society of Jesus - the Jesuits, for I believe them to be involved in things that might be best described as Spiritual Warfare and the Jesses actions over here concerning such, and then back to the Aztecs and their little heart rippin' out shows they engaged in, for I believe that was done with reason and intent and could explain some of the paranormal stuff going on over here. Incidentally, the Aztec Show was a Euro initiated deal. All of those Cathedrals supposedly 'built upon the ruins of Pagan Temples', well, no. They were built as, initially, Pagan Temples, and in those buildings occurred the blood sacrifices described in the Old Testament.

Let me be clear, my Mother goes to Mass every week. I have serious issues with the Vatican, but do not extend those issues to the practicing Catholics of the world, nor anything I mention about things like the Judaic sacrifices in the OT do I assign to people who today are Jewish. Both groups have had the wool pulled over their eyes, IMO, and their individual hearts mean well and are generally pure. On that subject, Jesus was born circa 1053 AD, and he was the Emperor Andronicus of the Byzantine Empire.

This post is long enough, so I'll stop for the moment, let you digest it and then get around to your Ultimate Truth you have claimed to laid out in this thread. I'll attach a couple snap shots of the Table of Contents of the first volume I referenced, so you can get an idea of what is going on, noting that each of the 7 volumes is 600-800+ pages of college textbook sized stuff. There is one more book of his in English, and he has written several others concerning his reconstruction, but they are only available in Russian.

An incomplete table of contents (this volume is about 600 pages):

 

[Cat Jockey]

Not that I presume anyone to care, but pardon the slightly disjointed last post, that I am blaming on a not totally clear head due to going straight from the flu to pneumonia and being slightly feverish. I am going to sip some coffee as I construct this post, let my brain wake up a bit, and I do seem to be in the upswing this morning with the antibiotics kicking in and kickin' some pneumonia ass, and won't need to be all hopped up on cough medicine, like I was yesterday, lol.

I am going to respond to your post, now, that I stopped reading when the opening paragraph was nothing more than a character assault upon Kasparov as a means to try to discredit his opinion. Then I'll give you a quick opinion about whether your enlightening words of wisdom do any such thing for me as you have claimed they will. And then, even though I have thick skin, Robert, that does not mean I don't consider conversing with someone who appears to be a close minded know-it-all a productive use of my time. After that, I'm not going to continue to jack this thread up with you and your schtick, and I am going to construct a post that further explains my initial post in this thread, why I quoted the OP as I did, and the directions my research has led me, for I have 7 days/week sitting in front of a computer, dbl digit hours per day, with most of that time devoted to said research, not trying to make pennies fall from heaven into a bank account - I have spent as much time in the last five years trying to make some money to the point that there is food in my and the dog's belllies, and a little bit of gas in the 'ol 1978 Bronco. And no more time than that, for it pulls me away from my research.

Ya ready Robert? Here we go.

Glad to hear you have thick skin. You will need it now that I see some of what you are promoting is even worse than alien intervention - though I am still not sure you are not one of those delusionals. Kasparov is a proven paranoid delusional - so you can fool around that issue if you like.

Lol. All I have to say about this is that people are not as stupid as you seem to think they are, being reliant upon you for the Truth, nor are you so much smarter than everyone else as your 'about us' page proclaims. Point being, Robert, the reasoning behind your ad hominem attacks are pretty clear to anyone that reads this, and I would say, in general that it does not bode well for you.

You say Newton took on the false chronology of history.

It is not something I 'say', Robert, it is a KNOWN FACT. Little semantic games are not going to get you very far with me, and I can easily identify and expose them.

Yes, there is an issue in history with various chronologies but not proof at all of what you are selling (and an ego you certainly exhibit is all you have - you are not thinking or giving a specific about his work or even where he came from or what he was).

How many 'various chronologies' do you claim to exist? For with exception of a few discrepancies, there is pretty much only the one, the Scalgerian/Falsified Chronology, that defines the existence of all these civilizations supposedly going back 2,500 years.

Velikovsky (for example) did a good factual challenge due to Greek tiles found in or near Memphis. But this is to be expected when the whole of history we were taught as Classical is based on the Bible Narrative (It is an alien theory - elohim, Annunaki, Gilgamesh's Oannes etc..). Ptolemy directed Manetho to concoct a King's List to prove his ancestors were the DNN including Herakles.

Velikovsky has some interesting theories, to be sure, but I don't recall the Bible talking about Plato, did I miss that somewhere? You and I obviously disagree with the time frame of the writing of the Bible. Forgetting Gensis and Flood stuff, the events of the OT occurred AFTER the events described in the NT. While you can find stuff like this in the Bible:

The Hebrew does not actually use the word for Greece or Grecia, but the word yawan or its English equivalent javan. This name is derived from Javan of Genesis 10:2, one of the sons of Japheth and therefore a grandson of Noah. It is commonly believed, however, that Javan was the progenitor of the Greek race which inhabited not only Greece but the islands related to it and hence is properly translated by Grecian where it occurs (cp. Isaiah 66:19; Ezekiel 27:13, 19; Daniel 8:21; 10:20; 11:2; Joel 3:6; Zechariah 9:13).

'Commonly believed', lol.

Your claim about the whole of Classical History being based upon the Bible is just flat out wrong. It is those others, like Mantheo, Homer, Justintinius, etc. that have delivered the vast, vast majority of our 'knowledge' of the Classical Age to us. At least you are using the word 'theory', now, lol.

Further, Fomenko has done FAR MORE of a 'good factual challenge' due to far more things than simply some Greek tiles.

Btw, The Orginal Jesse, Ignacio, well his real name in Basque was Iñaki - and I am exploring a theory that the Jesses handed the Annunaki BS to their Zionist friend Sitchin to distribute and essentially named that pile of nonsense essentially after Señor Iñaki. Not going to get into it, but I have some circumstantial evidence supporting this line of thought.

It was a good guess - you could say. I do not - and I fill in the gaps for ten thousand years.

I laugh at people like you who come along and claim they have, from nothing more than doing some reading and hypothesizing, 10,000+ years of human history all figured out, as known fact. Us billions of idiots would be completely lost were it not for you to come through and explain it all for us, lol. What would we ever do without you and your genius? I doubt you have a full grasp of the absolute boldness of that claim ...

Those gaps include the founding of Rome, Etruria, why those medieval castles are on Sardinia going back to 1800 BCE, etc.

And do you know how those Sardinian castles are proven to go back to 1800BC? Nah, you don't. You just read it and assumed it to be true without question. I'd like for you to explain to everyone how those 'castles' are actually dated - I'll give ya hint. It won't be science, but a reliance upon the Falsified Chronology, constructed in the 16th-17th cc, that is the main source for dating them as such.

I mention that one because you are focussing on Latin - and I know where it comes from too.

Huh? I provided one simple comment from Kasparov about one simple issue you have no answer for, and you turn that into me 'focusing' on Latin? Your logic and extrapolations prowess, well, suck, dude, if that is the kind of conclusion you draw about my 'focus' from my few posts. That claimed focus is but one piece of evidence (among a sh!tpot full) indicating a very serious problem with the Falsified Chronology. My actual focus is far broader in spectrum than Latin, or roman Numerals, etc. - those are bits of evidence I present, Robert, not my 'focus'. And again a few decades of work and several thousand pages from Fomeko and 3-4 other mathematicians involved are anything but focused on Latin as you are claiming here.

Here is the interview I referenced ONE PART of that you are incorrectly labeling as my focus. And again, I came across Fomenko before Kasparov, and those two came to independent conclusion about serious issues in the Falsified Chronology, and it is Fomenko who has done the work, not Kasparov (Kasparov simply raises questions that neither you, nor PhD'ed Historians can answer). Don't waste your time incorrectly claiming his or my focus is Latin, for it will just make you wrong. Again. :

Garry Kasparov Interview from 2001 | TimothyTaylor.ca

In the matter of Greek origins before Latin I address it even more certainly

I doubt it, lol.

but suffice it to say Velikovsky did not.

Though quite aware of Velkovsky's work, why are you isolating him and his work as the only apparent legitimate type challenge to the Falsified Chronology? Could it be your unawareness of others like Fomenko (horror of horrors - you the most well-read person on any forum you participate on can actually learn something from someone else about the subject?)

Academia has caught up to the few hundred year matter he struggled with

Academia is mired in the Falsified Chronology, and has been for a few centuries, and have not caught up to anything.

but as Rick Gore of Nat Geo says in his article on that era

Now you are referring to TV personalities as experts on the subject. Awesome. Lol.

- anyone writing about the Sun Kings or the Moses/Akhenaton era is writing fiction.

I have great interest in things surrounding the Aramana Hersey, and such, and that is quite the bold claim you are making. Care to attempt to prove it?

He quotes the Disney Professor of Archaeology saying the same thing. I think he is an Oxford man but it could be Cambridge.

What do Mickey Mouse, Goofy, and the kids at the Mickey Mouse Club have to say about all of this - Snow White is a cutie pie - she'll definitely have my rapt attention on the subject, lol. And Robert, while I do give respect to such institutions, I have seen enough flat out indoctrination and CLOSE MINDEDNESS going on in those Hallowed Halls of Academia that simply dropping a University name, in of itself, is pretty meaningless to me.

Yes, I know there is no association with Walt Disney - I'm just makin' a funny, lol.

Greek was indeed spoken by the Catholic hegemony.

Millions of people speak Greek today. What's your point? And yes, the 'oldest known' copies of the Bible are in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic. And while you think this proves some kind of point you are trying to make (it does no such thing) it actually ought to raise the hell outta yer eyebrow to question what you have been told about things, like the origin of the Bible, and why the odlest known copies are in Greek, and not the language they 'should' be.

It was also one of two subjects taught at Oxford during the Dark Ages.

And that has what to do with the price of tea in China? The claimed origins of Oxford, circa 9oo AD, are well, almost one thousand years after the claimed birth and death of Jesus, who should have spoke Aramaic/Hebrew, not Greek or Latin. Seems to me you are just trying to throw a bunch 'o tidbits of 'facts' out there to impress people, not prove the validity of the Falsified Chronology. And if proving such is your intention, well, dude, you are failing miserably at that task.

All other institutions taught just one subject - Latin. The argument being that was the only language of merit because that is what the Bible was written in. But in fact, the earlier Bibles were written in other languages and Greek was the best source for what Rome was lying to create - a bigger Empire.

As I mentioned the 'earliest' known copies of the Bible are in Greek, not 'other languages', and again, while you think this proves your point (because I quote Kasparov about the Byzantine Greek/Latin issue, you, quite incorrectly label my focus as Latin based and seem to have gotten yer panties in a wad about it all), it doesn't. You are simply throwing out White Noise.

And, again, so far, you have completely ignored the very serious claims of all of this sophisticated mathematics and astronomical calculations being done with no zero, Roman Numerals, etc., 2000+ years ago and its virtual impossibility. And all you are doing here is jumping right on into that circular logic I mentioned early, but you cannot see the forest for the trees on this. Unimpressive, and, umm, 'Plato', would not at ll be impressed with your methodology and 'logic and reason', lol.

That starts becoming widely accepted now - look up Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome - No Jesus by Atwill (a video).

If that is Joseph Atwill you are speaking of, I am familiar with some of his stuff. Though he has some interesting things to say, and some of his work I could actually point to in support of what I say, he has completely missed the boat, too, like you, with all of this Rome/Greek/Jesus stuff ...

It is far less than what I earlier wrote in many books starting with a task set for me by Ogham scholars in 1991.

Don't forget to toot yer own horn a bit and pimp yer quickly churned out books taht you claim to solve all of the world's mysteries of the last 10,000 years while yer at it here, lol. I have not been impressed by anything I have read from your keyboard and the quick glance I took at your site, yet. And in 2015, anyone can become a published author - the barrier for entrance is quite low, somehting I actually consider pretty cool, but you need to keep that low barrier in mind as you keep pimping your churned out theories you are selling.

Ogham is the language of the Druids and yet Britannica (now Wiki) will tell you it did not exist until 400AD. Funny thing Rome long before that (Three separate Emperors) put a bounty on the head of Druids.

Ogham is the language ... Why do you think yourself so much more knowledgeable than everyone else? Pure arrogance? Or do you have some unresolved self-esteem issues because you didn't read Moby Dick by the second grade like your two brothers. I know all about Ogham, including some field sites in Colorado of some supposed 'Ogham' writing. Funny thing is, Robert, you blindly and unquestionably accept the Falsified Chronology and accounts of Rome as pure fact, leading you to tell me things I already know.

Perhaps you will have an explanation how this person was a neoplatonic philosopher doing "revivals" and yet Plato did not exist.

You totally missed the point, Mr. Smarty Pants, lol. Let me help you out and provide you some fodder for that arrogant, too big for yer britches noggin of yours. Gemisto was the 'Original Gansta, err, Plato'. And he was the second supposed reviver of Platoism (the Plotin dude in the early AD supposedly being the first). Refer to that first jpeg I posted in my last post. That is how I explain it. And what you seem to not understand is that were I to ask you to prove that Plato existed, all you can do is go back to the Middle Ages/Renaissance era, point to copies (yes admitted copies, no original work from that supposed era survives anywhere) that were supposedly lost for centuries (like all of the other supposed 'ancient' texts - lost for centuries) and magically all started showing up in the Middle Ages/Renaissance Era. The whole Renaissance motif is quite important to the Falsified Chronology.

That is all YOU have for proof Plato existed. Long lost copies of 'ancient' manuscripts that just started falling like manna from the heavens in 1400AD on forward. What you don't seem to grasp is the absolutely tenuous 'proof' you rely upon for the existence of some dude named Plato at said location and time - and you can only trace it back the the Falsified Chronology and all of the copies of 'ancient' manuscripts that apparently started floating up from castle dungeons at the same time for proof.

Get it?

Ficino is important as are the De Medicis. They tasked him to translate the whole work of Hermes Trismegistus called the Corpus Hermeticum. They had their clan name put on that book - De Brix! Going way back before vowels - that is BRX, my family is BRD. Rome was founded like Britain by the BRT - see Bruttium of Pythagoras and his teacher Abaris (Rabbi) the Druid. The last letters distinguish location. The first letter is key - the BEES. Check out the robe of napoleon when he was made Holy Roman Emperor.

Whatevah ... But yea, the whole Venetian thing is quite important to my research, including things going on over here pre-1492.

Now maybe you can prove Plato and the Corpus are connected - they are; because Plato is an alchemist.

Alchemy had its birth no earlier that about 1400 AD, not 2500+ years ago, lol.

Hermes is a myth or amalgam just like Jesus who Rome created in the Gospels many years after all the apostles were dead or dying. Paul/Saul was a Roman and an assassin - see stoning Stephen and an attempt on the older brother of Yeshua. Paul is a proven liar but he might indeed be a Benjaminite as he claimed despite not being from the Pharisaic school of Gamaliel as we KNOW - we have their records. Tarses to Tarshis and Tartessus are important in the true history and he is said to be from this corporate venture which spanned the whole Old World and beyond.

Yes, yes, I am well versed on these types of theories, and again, while you claim as absolute fact Jesus did not exist, I suggest much evidence points to him actually being the Byzantine Emperor Androncius. You don't seem to have an actual understanding of the difference between pure facts and supposition, theories, etc., though. I do, and avoid the intellectual traps that seem to have you all tripped up.

Homer's work talking about the 'underworld' is addressing the Americas and there were 19 separate theatres of war - most likely followed by another Dark Age destruction of all history. That one lasted 400 years. Isaac Newton was an author on the Dan family (DNN or DN of Homer - Danaus who founded Greece).

The dude known as Homer did not exist when and where claimed, according to my research and theories, and all of 'his stuff' was written no earlier than 1400. There is interesting discussion to be had concerning Newton and that time frame and the Venetians movement into England and connections to Newton at that time, as well as the movement of the Tribe of Dan, but I am not really interested in too much discussion with you, for you strike me as quite arrogant and close minded ...

Should you actually wish to learn about these things - go to World-Mysteries and the forum there.

Lol. You have already pimped yer books a few times, now don't forget to pimp your forum on someone else's forum - Classy, dude. Lol. Or should I say a bit cheesy. Quite frankly, Robert, while I may spend a bit more time perusing your site, I doubt I will find the Answers and Truth you proclaim exists there and I don't plan on investing too much time on all of that - not out of close mindedness, but just a general distaste I have developed for you after a very brief interaction here.

Should you wish to address the Roman numerals go to the source for that quote of mine - Dennis Fetcho at the Illuminatus Observer.

I like Fetcho's stuff, and have read quite a bit of his site, like the majority if it. His stuff and things like the Great Vowel Shift I find to be quite interesting stuff. But nowhere did I see on his site anything that proves the origins of Roman Numerals to be 2,000+ years ago, nor is anything I or Fomenko saying disproving or attacking Fetcho's stuff - whether Roman Numerals are 2,000+ years old or slightly less than 1,000 years, has no impact upon his work. And I won't hold it against him that you claim to be friends with him, lol.

Robert, as mentioned, it is impossible for me to 'prove' any of this Falsified Chronolgy stuff on this or any forum - it took Fomenko several thousand pages to do so. All I do is point it out, make people aware of it, that I subscribe to it, and give people some info on where people can further educate themselves on the issue, if they themselves have done things like I have in that past and said to themselves, "Ya know this whole Dark Ages in Europe after the 'fall of Rome' doesn't make a whole bunch 'o sense on the surface, nor the Byzantine connection, etc., and several other things." For myself, it took a 2-3 years of digestion and thought before I was ready to fully commit to his theory. You, though, think you have 10,000 years of EVERYTHING all figured out for certain and for fact and unimpeachable - laughably arrogant and narrow minded.

Take care Robert, you kinda bore the hell outta me, and my next post will not mention your name and will be on topic with what I quoted from the OP, before this thread gets all jacked up - a movement of groups from the West into NA, and the tings I think about in my research, including the Falsified Chronology, and some theories I am exploring of how that all ties into things like Skinwalker Ranch.

For anyone curious, you can find in pdf form on the Net the first 4 volumes of Fomenko's work History: Science or Fiction Chronology 1 (chron2, 3, 4, etc.), as well as he a three other mathematicians book Mysteries of Egyptian Zodiacs and Oher Riddles of Ancient History: A Guide to Dating Ancient Astronomical Data.

It is that 7 volume set that outlines his mathematics applied and the proof of the chronological shifts. After that, well what's next? How 'bout trying to reconstruct what actually happened over the course of the last 1,000 years. That you can find on his website. Take note that this link does NOT deal with any proving of anything, merely his take on a reconstruction of History. It is by far the shortest read, but will not provide any proofs of his claims as in the other books, simply his reconstruction, and without first reading that 7 volume set it will definitely cook yer noodle a bit about his reconstruction - this work is nothing more than an epilogue to his actual scientific work and he does plenty of 'supposing' in there, not claiming things as ultimate fact. Do not let this reconstruction turn you off of his actual theory for the different things, and, again, Fomenko calls for multi-disciplinary academics to participate in the reconstruction, even to the correction of what he proposes, like a good open minded scientist. And while the translation is a bit shaky at times on this link his 7 volume set is pretty damn rock solid Russian to English translation. I also do not agree 100% with this reconstruction, mostly concerning North American stuff, but like a good majority of it:

HOW IT WAS IN REALITY

 

[Randall]

[Excellent article that looks at many similarities between aspects of the Shang Dynasty and 1000 BC Native American iconography; DNA studies and the propagation of plants and vegetables... A must read for diffusionist archaeology fans! — chris]

Article HERE:

By Tara MacIsaac/Epoch Times

It is commonly held that Native Americans are descended from people who traveled across the what is known today as the Bering Strait, between Siberia and Alaska, some 10,000 years ago. At the time, water levels were low and a land bridge emerged, connecting the continents. It is also commonly held that from the time of this crossing until about 1000 A.D. when the Vikings arrived, no expeditions brought explorers or colonists from the Old World to the New. Article HERE:

Yet some say that puzzling artifacts, as well as the results of recent DNA studies performed on Native Americans, may suggest contact between ancient China and North America.

John A. Ruskamp Jr. is a research analyst who has compared ancient Native American glyphs with ancient Chinese pictograms, finding what he says is a sure match between the two. The glyphs and pictograms date to a period long after the Bering Land Bridge crossing and long before modern contact between Chinese and Native American cultures. Geneticist Dr. Donald Yates has studied Native American DNA, finding what he believes may be genetic links to colonists from China’s ancient or medieval periods of history.

Yates hypothesizes that Native American genealogy is not as simple as commonly held. He says the ancestors of today’s Native Americans may not have come in a single migration. He thinks other boats may have landed on the shores of the New World, carrying explorers unknown to historians today....

....A Chinese account from 2200 B.C. describes the land of Fusang, which some say refers to North America. Charlotte Harris Rees has spent many years researching this connection, and she has delivered speeches on it at the Library of Congress in the United States, the National Library of China, and other locations around the world.

The ancient account, titled Shan Hai Jing, describes flora and fauna found in North America. These include, according to Rees, the opossum, armadillo, peccary, pronghorn, coyote, bald eagle, elephant seal, and appaloosa horse.

The directions given to travel from China to Fusang would indeed take one to Alaska. Fusang is said to be 20,000 li (li is a form of Chinese measurement; in ancient times, one li was equivalent to about 1/4 mile) away, which is roughly how far North America is from China. Rees said in her speech delivered to the Library of Congress in 2005: “Tong Fan Tso (who lived around the third century B.C.) stated that Fusang is 3,300 miles wide and is bounded by vast oceans and has huge trees. That is almost the exact width of America. How could someone in China that long ago have known this?”

I'm pretty sure I saw one of Scott Wolter's episodes in which he explored the possibility of visiting ships from the orient. Very convincing. Here's another one:

 

[Cat Jockey]

Give me a few minutes (well, more like an hour or two or three or four - definitely before I go to bed tonight), and I'll talk about my research concerning some things that Wolter talks about, like Templars over here circa 1300, etc. It is a working theory I am, well, working on, but also pretty comprehensive, as well as including all kinds 'o fun things like Secret Societies, buried treasure (including Montezuma's stuff, etc.), some of this paranormal phenomenon occurring in places like the SLV and Uintah Basin, and many places especially in the Southwest and Western States, millions of untold Native American slaves (with Taos, NM actually being a major slave trading hub at one point). Euro involvement at the head of the sacrificial Aztecs, etc. All kinds of fun things. Fomenko's stuff is just too massive a piece of work to try to discuss on a forum or convince anyone of and I am simply making people aware of the gist of his theory (the expansion of the true written record and chronology by about 2,500 years into the past), that I subscribe to it, and where, if at all curious, people kind find out more about his theory (again, that 7 volume work being the place to go), for themselves to ponder.

If anything, Ufology, I can try to at least make my take on this stuff quite original and more entertaining then whatever rerun of Seinfeld or The Big Bnag Theory is on TV tonight or tomorrow night, lol..

 

[Cat Jockey]

All ya'll are going to have to pardon me for changing my mind on this evening's activities. Some of that rest and recuperation I think is in order from this point forward tonight. But I shall be in front of my computer screen pretty much all day tomorrow and will get the ball rolling with what I mentioned in the above post well before lunch.

Chat with all ya'll tomorrow ...

 

[Robert Baird]

As I said earlier in this thread - a million years ago man travelled across the horizon and left artifacts for us to date. Bucky correctly noted that travel of this nature lead to geometry, and basic trigonometry as well as carpentry. Dolni Vestonici shows us how ceramics were made 25,000 years before the Valdivian pottery in Ecuador which the Canadian Museum of Civilization lied about (and I have articles from various scientific sources to prove) when they said it was locally developed. These kinds of lies are the foundation upon which people base all manner of uninformed opinions. The figurines found in the Dolni Vestonici area are similar to those found in Berekhat Ram (Palestine) dated to 350,000 years ago. Modern day Viking swords use a similar double kiln technique - I saw it on TV recently.

Part of the problem with religion and nations (both being 'one' at some point or using the other when they are not 'one') is racism or appeals to ego. Machiavelli called it "appeals to base human urges' when he wrote his masterwork for the de Medicis (Il Principe) for which he never got paid what he was promised.

Today you have people saying things like "everyone has an opinion" and that is certainly true - but is it informed? Is it really thought through with all sides taken into consideration. In Chris's link we have the idea that Clovis points archaeology has some validity - it never EVER did. Yet some academics still teach that Bering Bridge crap. Maybe they will some day realize there are many kinds of watercraft which traveled the whole earth over 100,000 years ago. Maybe they will learn from the people today walking across the oceans on snowshoes. Well, not snowshoes - water shoes or floats under the feet. They drag a covered boat to sleep in.

You might recall Von Daniken using the pictures from the Lascaux Caves to prove ancient aliens. The leather bathyscapes and hoses with bellows to a glass helmet started a long time ago as people sought to recover things on ships lost in storms. Maybe you remember the story of Oannes from the Epic of Gilgamesh who taught the Cradle of Civilization people their languages and agriculture. He was no fish-man or alien. He was a sea person or one of the sea people - Phoenicians! We have proof of their linguistic prowess and the roots of all alphabets they created. Why is there no doctoral program studying them? Why do you still see schools teaching us about Empires rather than Brotherhood (they still fought with their black or Nubian brothers when Rome finally defeated them ten millennia after they designed megaliths and built places like Yonaguni and Tiwanaku with their D'Ainu brothers who may have bred them with Neanderthal blood such as the Denisovan Man. My history is always backed by DNA - and lots of new evidences including art 500,000 years older than those Lascaux caves we were taught was the first art humans created.