Does the Past Exist Yet?

[Christopher O'Brien]

Excellent article on the subject of cutting-edge particle theory as it relates to the past, present and future. In short: the past may not be set in stone until the collapse of wave function.

Wrap your head around this article and you may change an aspect of your past...

 

[jpw.in.wi]

Interesting reading! Although way over my head. If I may venture a couple of questions, though:

When Lenza talks about the observation of light from a quasar as an example, he writes, "the measurements made on the light now, determines the path it took billions of years ago." So does all of that hinge upon the FIRST observer to measure it, or does that light path change every time measurements are made by each individual observer around the globe? And if that's the case, shouldn't we see mass confusion among scientists, as the results of experiments could never be repeated, and data could never be correlated?

Also, when he talks about the assassination of JFK, he really started losing me: "Like the light from Wheeler's quasar, historical events such as who killed JFK, might also depend on events that haven't occurred yet."

So, maybe we need to go easy on (insert name of notorious mass murderer here), as he may become innocent due to events that haven't happened yet. Or, getting back to JFK, I took this article to mean that the historical fact of JFK being assassinated may actually not really be a fact, that after some special event that hasn't happened yet, the assassin(s) may miss the target, and JFK ends up finishing his term, probably being reelected. And isn't archeology, then, a total waste of time, since those fossils are here, then there, then not there, then fundamentally altered, all depending upon what is happening now in the distant future (relative to the dinosaurs), or what hasn't happen tomorrow?

And how can we even know if the past has been changed, since we'd have to know what happened on the first run through, then how it changed, and then maybe how it changed again ...

I guess this is why I'm not a quantum physicist!

 

[campbell71]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......... my head hurts after reading this! If I read this right then the fours years I spent studying history at university was a waste of time!

Thank you Robert Lanza.

You bast**d!

I think this is more a philosophical question than a physics question. If I interpreted Lanza's article right then all history past, present & future is all happening at exactly the same time. But having said that once you start to act then your many pasts are reduced to one as the is present. Surely then this is no different more the many universes theory?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I think this is more a philosophical question than a physics question. If I interpreted Lanza's article right then all history past, present & future is all happening at exactly the same time. But having said that once you start to act then your many pasts are reduced to one as the [sic] is present.

Heh-heh, maybe that's why the Hopi language has no past or future tense--everything is in the now (?)
Hmmm

 

[dyingsun]

This was really interesting, thanks.

 

[paraschtick]

Now it does ... now it does ... now it does ... now it does

Puerile but still funny. Who needs all this metaphysical mallarky anyway???

Bestest wishes

underschtick

 

[MVoltage]

Now it does ... now it does ... now it does ... now it does

Puerile but still funny. Who needs all this metaphysical mallarky anyway???

Bestest wishes

underschtick

Oh that comment was like just soooooo yesterday!!! LOL! Couldn't resist!

 

[Slim Shady]

Theres a theroy that the universe expands to a certain point then collapses , then expands again , i like to think that if this is the case , wouldn't it mean that everytime it expands it will be the exact same universe , so when we all pass away , we will be born again in a few trillion years =) , i know it might sound odd but its a nice thought

 

[paraschtick]

Slim Shady, that is probably M-brane theory you might be thinking about??? Two universes side by side that come together and collide which causes the Big Bang, and then which move apart again until the built in attraction between them pulls them into together again and the whole cycle continues. Its an interesting idea, and I think this is maybe where the tv series Fringe gets its ideas of two universes coming together and nasty things happen plot arc thing. Or maybe not.

Of course, if m-brane theory is right, you then have to ask the question, "where did in gods name did those two flamin' universes come from in the first place???" ... which is neither here nor there, of course.

Oh and MVoltage ... I couldn't possibly comment ... that would be far too easy

 

[TClaeys]

Slim Shady, that is probably M-brane theory you might be thinking about??? Two universes side by side that come together and collide which causes the Big Bang, and then which move apart again until the built in attraction between them pulls them into together again and the whole cycle continues.

I think he is thinking about Loop Quantum Gravity and Big Bounce theory. That is, as I understand it, a loop created by gravity that contracts our own universe into a compacted mass until gravity changes and becomes a repulsive force releasing everything into Universe 2.0 and so on.

Either way they are both pretty insane to comprehend.

 

[exo_doc]

Well if future events are affecting the past, and things happen according to our expectations (at least at the quantum level)...couldn't we conceivably be responsible for the beginning of this universe......maybe literally created from us?
We created the universe and ourselves?

I'm dizzy.

BTW jpw.in.wi, I really like that photo of the guy hoilding his head...I felt exactly like that after reading that article.

 

[jpw.in.wi]

I've been thinking a lot about the topic of this thread, and I thought I'd try to bring another question into the mix: since quantum physics seems to center of the presence of a subjective observer, does it also go further to accommodate the possibility of a consciousness outside of the limits of the physical universe and of time themselves, one that is capable of observing the entire universe in its past, present, and future all at once? (The idea of the Unmoved Prime Mover, the Uncaused First Cause, Uncreated Being Itself, etc.)

If such does exist, how could the influence of Its/His/Whatever's omnipresent observations be factored into this whole picture?

Thanks!

 

[NTS]

"at least at the quantum level"

This whole future-creating-the-past thing is probably only true at the quantum level. At the scales we live in the past is fixed (although always being re-interpreted...).

There was a book several years ago called "Einstein's Dreams" which describes several different theories about time and causality. IIRC the point of it was that all of the theories are true at various scales.

 

[Slim Shady]

*Points Finger At Cern* lol proton collider my arse lol

 

[stonehart]

Good read but .... ahhhggg my brain hurts now lol.

 

[paraschtick]

Either way they are both pretty insane to comprehend.

Yep ... you're not wrong about that . I wonder though do these theories take into consideration dark energy/matter?? ...

[actually I think in m-brane theory its dark energy/matter that is responsible for the attraction of the two universes ... if I remember rightly. Might have to read up a bit at some point.]

... which of course noone has any idea what it/they are ... so thats ok then. I'm sure the theories are correct even if they take into consideration something that noone knows what it is .

Until we get quantum physics and gravity together, I shall always think of the following:

whatever it is ... you're wrong!!