Don't You Know This About Greer?

[valiens]

Steven Greer claims that when he was a teen he had a contactee-like meeting with aliens. It sounds from your stunned posture that you don't know this about him. It's in his book, Hidden Truth: Forbidden Knowledge.

He has online classes teaching you how to become an ambassador to ETs when they eventually land.

I asked someone taking the classes how it is that he met with aliens and they told him what his mission in life was to be (which is what he's become now, duh) but now he has to flash lights in the sky to contact them? Did they have a falling out? If they just walked up to him one day and had a normal conversation, why don't they do that now?

Her answer was as convoluted as you can imagine. Something about their coming out being a national security issue.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. All of it.

 

[tommyball]

I've heard something similar on Coast to Coast.

Ummmm, as convoluted as the logic behind arranging a large press conference on UFOs featuring prominent military witnesses in order to gain large-scale public attention and then creating an $800 Ambassador To The Universe expedition wherein trainees must sign liability and confidentiality agreements?

-todd.

 

[valiens]

Confidentiality agreements? Really??? What would those be for? Sounds like we're edging toward cult territory.

 

[Noanswers]

I must admit, I hadn't thought of the idea that the whole saga of Greer may have been some sort of long-term disinformation project as proposed by David on the last episode of the radio show. It is indeed a fascinating theory. Additionally, like Eisenhower warning of the Mil/Ind complex on his way out, Vallee warned of the idea of long term social tampering by private and govt groups via UFO belief systems and groups.
As we watch all these Youtube videos popping up, we might do ourselves well to ask where they are coming from and why now.
While I don't even fathom some deep dark program at work, I do find it fascinating and merely the latest chapter in what is only slightly less confusing than the phenomenon itself.

 

[tommyball]

Good points, NoAnswers. As I have gotten older and more into this subject, I find myself more and more distracted and intrigued by the sideshow that is the culture of ufology itself. I'll have to read up on Vallee some more as well.

Here's an excerpt from the CSETI confidentiality agreements:

"PHOTOS/VIDEO FOOTAGE: I recognize that this is a private training retreat and that no photographs or videos of the proceedings shall be obtained by me for any public or organizational use. I agree to respect the privacy and the confidentiality of those attending, including their names, faces, and any information they share with the participants to this training retreat. I further agree that should I photograph or videotape any UFO-related events during field work or any phase of this training, that CSETI and I shall share unrestricted use of said footage. I agree to provide CSETI with the original video or photograph, if requested, or a first-generation copy, if requested. I further agree that any photographs or videos taken by me shall not be sold or released publicly without the prior express written consent of CSETI.

AUDIO TAPING: I agree that I shall not audio tape any proceedings for any purpose other than my own individual and personal use and agree not to sell, distribute or share in any form the material contained therein."

The rest of that and the required forms are here.

-todd.

 

[valiens]

Okay, well that makes me feel a bit better in that it's not cult-like. However, if I filmed an indisputable space craft there's not a chance in hell I'd hand over the original tape upon request.

 

[Rick Deckard]

I must admit, I hadn't thought of the idea that the whole saga of Greer may have been some sort of long-term disinformation project as proposed by David on the last episode of the radio show.

I too proposed that theory several months ago on these very forums - I arrived at that conclusion through my frustration at the very little progress that appears to have been made since the conference in 2001 - though according to Paul Kimball, I'm not the only one thinking in those terms; he states in the same thread that this suspicion has been voiced for several years in the various UFO circles that he frequents.

If you're interested, the majority of the discussion is here: Paracast Discussion - Steven Greer

 

[Noanswers]

Thanks for the link, Rick.
I don't know a whole lot about Greer, yet his whole story is strange.
Who has financed all of this, especially the early days?
Greer is merely one persona in this whole thing, so many of the characters involved in this are of questionable veracity. . .possibly on purpose.
What about that Doty guy. . .someone should do a thread on him. He's gone from propagandizer to "true believer"?
Sometimes the old days of UFO study look a lot more appealing, despite the strict adherence to "nuts and bolts" theories.
Urrgh!

 

[67fortsmithufos]

I have been in the medical profession for quite some time and if I were to compile a top ten list of the most comedic egocentric characters that I have encountered in this lifetime that list would be dominated by emergency room physicians, ergo Steven Greer. I’ve yet to establish a corollary, but the point is that if you tend to subscribe to the theory that he is an agent of disinformation you might want to consider that he may be an unwitting participant. There does seem to be a point at which he migrated from the rational to the absurd. That could very well when it was determined that the best course of action would be to massage, feed and manipulate his large and somewhat fragile ego.

 

[Rick Deckard]

I’ve yet to establish a corollary, but the point is that if you tend to subscribe to the theory that he is an agent of disinformation you might want to consider that he may be an unwitting participant. There does seem to be a point at which he migrated from the rational to the absurd. That could very well when it was determined that the best course of action would be to massage, feed and manipulate his large and somewhat fragile ego.

I have a some sympathy with that point of view - I feel that the same has happened to David Icke. If you read one of his books, you'll see that the majority of his material is very well researched and can be backed up. But then he does himself a huge disservice by pushing his 'shape-shifting lizard' stories, which appear to be based on the 'experience' of a single individual who claims to have been a victim of CIA brain-washing experiments.

I can't get any of my friends to look at any of his stuff, because they can't get past the 'lizard' thing, which is a very minor aspect of his work. If Icke took that out of his materials and concentrated more on historical aspects of his research - facts that can be independently verified - he'd be able to get the attention he deserves. Perhaps it's too late for that now - the genie is out of bottle.

 

[Noanswers]

There is a history of what you mention above, Rick. Go through the list. . .Bennowtiz (sic?) Linda Moulton Howe, the attempt with Hynek and Vallee. . .etc. The proof that someone has been fooling with UFO investigators (I use those words loosely in some cases) seems pretty concrete, the question lies in the motivation for the manipulation.

 

[tommyball]

The issue of belief vs. knowledge comes up again and again on this show and that conflict seems to be a stumbling block for a lot of the researchers mentioned here. I don't know if its frustration that leads them to allow their personal paranormal beliefs to eclipse the objective path of research or the simple desire to get attention and make a buck, but either way it doesn't do any good for the field itself.

That's one take on it, but Greer seems to stand out as very unique; one who at first appeared very firmly grounded in The Disclosure Project, then he does a 180º and Deckard's proposal makes more and more sense.

-todd.

 

[Poi]

If investigations are easily corrupted, it seems fair to suggest that Greer himself may have been corrupted, even without his knowledge. All it would take is one really good govt provocateur to suggest the answer to the world's ills is free energy. Or that he has an inside track with the visitor's agenda and it should be protected and manuveured with his influence. People believe really weird crap, especially when their egos are tender in the first place. I tend to go along with fortshmith's suggestion because Greer actually did a world of good with gathering the best group, barring a few of course, credible witnesses. My opinion, sure.

The only people I really pay attention to are like Whitley Steiber because he does relate to his experiences as his and not a universal norm. He may suggest the norm, but he's always willing to alter his view because he doesn't wear permanent hats. I hear criticism that he is crazy, but if crazy is reacting to the phenomenon with emotion, well, we're all there, crazy.

 

[valiens]

The only people I really pay attention to are like Whitley Steiber because he does relate to his experiences as his and not a universal norm. He may suggest the norm, but he's always willing to alter his view because he doesn't wear permanent hats. I hear criticism that he is crazy, but if crazy is reacting to the phenomenon with emotion, well, we're all there, crazy.

And that's where I plug my new interview with him here:

http://blog.valiens.com/2007/08/21/culture-of-contact-episode-2wenty-twelve.aspx

As for Greer, I don't think someone trying to influence him now by catering to his ego could implant the suggestion that he was contacted by aliens in his youth. Could they? I mean without some sort of hypnotic suggestion or other out-of-the-ordinary means?

Chronologically, then, we have that issue to contend with first. He's lying, delusional, or reporting what actually took place. Which is it?

 

[Noanswers]

Couldn't agree more; ala Bennowitz. Greer may have started with the best of intentions, only to be led astray.

If investigations are easily corrupted, it seems fair to suggest that Greer himself may have been corrupted, even without his knowledge. All it would take is one really good govt provocateur to suggest the answer to the world's ills is free energy. Or that he has an inside track with the visitor's agenda and it should be protected and manuveured with his influence.

The only people I really pay attention to are like Whitley Steiber because he does relate to his experiences as his and not a universal norm. He may suggest the norm, but he's always willing to alter his view because he doesn't wear permanent hats. I hear criticism that he is crazy, but if crazy is reacting to the phenomenon with emotion, well, we're all there, crazy.

I've been revisiting the writing of Streiber, and it appeals to me more than in the past. As I've moved farther and farther away from the "nuts and bolts, interplanetary" ideas as the only answer, what once seemed bizzare and fantasy like in his writing now seems more possibly demensional in scope.

 

[valiens]

I've always been a fan of his. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was the first abductee to ever say "I don't know what this is" and then explore the possibilities.

I mean outside of those who said "I'm either insane or aliens are taking me." But even then they usually settle on an answer.

 

[Brian Now]

On Whitley Strieber, I have trouble with him. He was an established horror writer who then got visited by aliens, or "visitors" as he calls them. This in itself sounds like a screenplay. I haven't read Communion, but the movie seems to have been the catalyst for all the "anal probe" jokes we see leveled against ufology and talk of aliens.

And after his meeting with "Master of the Key" in Toronto (ahh, the mysterious stranger with signs and portents, a classic, yet cliche'd device) he says here that he wondered for a while whether he made it all up or not. It seems very unlikely someone with his experiences would meet a guy and then ever wonder if it was a dream. I'll still give him the benefit of a doubt, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that he is a fiction author who is having a laugh at his readers expense.

 

[valiens]

I asked him (in a previous interview) if he thought his imagination might be getting away from him, initially, and if he contacted other horror authors to ask if they had incidents like this in their lives. He said yes, surprisingly to me. He said some were nice about it; some thought he was nuts. Tom Monteleone saw a UFO underneath a bridge, so he was sympathetic.

Curiously, he said he didn't talk to Stephen King about it because he'd heard through the grapevine that King was pissed. He thought Strieber was pulling a fast one on the public and thought Communion should never have been written.

 

[tommyball]

I’ve always had a great deal of respect for the approach Strieber’s taken towards his abductions and I believe that he has had real experiences that he has tried to recount as accurately as he’s been able. At times (during his C2C appearances or on Dreamland) he has seemed overwhelmed or lost in the enormity of what has happened to him and what he has learned; though not in a disoriented way, but as if he has trouble at times fitting this day to day life within the larger perspective of his experiential knowledge.

That leads me to suggest another possible cause for those like Greer to go off into uncharted territory: maybe they simply get carried away by what they’ve learned. From a certain point of view, embracing a larger reality suddenly makes the daily grind that much more frustrating and one no longer really cares about maintaining public integrity.

I don’t think it’s that simple, but figured I’d throw it out there anyway.

-todd.

 

[valiens]

There IS something to that, Todd, in terms of knowing (or thinking you know) something so amazing, so huge and fundamentally challenging to everything we live by that you want to scream and eventually you may get a big head about it because there's nowhere else to turn but yourself. So you turn to yourself and grow resentful of the world around you and arrogant in it.

Not mutually exclusive to this is that in attempting to separate noise from signal (to lift one of Biedney's favorite sayings), it's easy to get lost in which is which. Once you choose a position and say "This is the answer" with confidence, you have to defend it, even if only to yourself. As with any belief system, this is a lie you're defending so you create more lies to do so. Maybe not on purpose--you just kinda shoehorn everything into the one theory. Soon that's not enough. You need others to believe you to sustain it. They have to preach your gospel. They do that, you feel justified, and so it goes. A new perspective is born and you're the center of it.