Extremely Annoying Larry King Skeptic 7/4 w/Edgar Mitchell

[Zandroid]

Larry King 7/4 was about Roswell and UFO coverups. I was interested because Apollo Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was supposed to be on to talk about whats inside the Roswell file, along with Don Schmidt, Tom Carey, and other things related to this coverup.

I got irritated and annoyed so much when this MORON Skeptic "Bill Nye The Science Guy" ruined Edgar Mitchells chance to tell his story and made Edgar angry over Nye's big mouth. I prefer Bill Nye stick to comedy skits elementary class and stay out of Edgars case.

Anyways Bill Nye and Edgar got into an argument to the point Edgar told Nye to "just shut his mouth so he could talk"

anyways anyone have a chance to watch it? twas annoying

 

[fitzbew88]

These are the current results of a poll Larry King's web site is running:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/

Is the U.S. government hiding knowledge of UFOs?
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr class="cnnQVAns"> <td class="cnnQVcell">Yes</td> <td class="cnnQVpercent">84%</td> <td class="cnnQVTotal"> 1380 </td> </tr> <tr class="cnnQVAns2"> <td class="cnnQVcell">No</td> <td class="cnnQVpercent">16%</td> <td class="cnnQVTotal"> 260 </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnQVTotalSum" colspan="3"> Total Votes: 1640 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> This is not a scientific poll

Not sure how long they will be running the poll.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I just read the transcript. It's about what I'd expect from Larry King Live.

Why the hell do they always have these goddamned debunkers on at the same time? Can't we have an episode without those loud mouthed whiners?

 

[fitzbew88]

Larry King 7/4 was about Roswell and UFO coverups. ... anyways anyone have a chance to watch it? twas annoying

I didn't see it --- and I can't find that they plan to re-air the segment. (It's not mentioned on the schedule.)

If anybody hears that this show is being re-aired, will you please share the information here? I would like to record it on my DVR (which, incidentally, is based on reverse-engineered alien technology).

 

[fitzbew88]

I just read the transcript. It's about what I'd expect from Larry King Live.

Thanks for pointing out the transcript, Chuck!

Direct link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/04/lkl.01.html

Why the hell do they always have these goddamned debunkers on at the same time? Can't we have an episode without those loud mouthed whiners?

It's quite a conundrum. They realize the subject is controversial, and feel obligated to present both "sides". Thus we are doomed.

Now, for fun, imagine that every news event was subject to the same "competition". When you report Jessie Helms is dead, you must invite some other party on the show who believes he is not dead. That way, the public can decide for themselves. :

UFO-related events are still matters of opinion --- not just events that need to be reported.

Not real sure what to do about it.

 

[Zandroid]

Its just the fact that Edgar Mitchell is the 6th person who walked on the moon, and he has high credibility in my opinion.

Bill Nye was out of line to talk over Mitchell like he did it was bullshit.

 

[fitzbew88]

Its just the fact that Edgar Mitchell is the 6th person who walked on the moon, and he has high credibility in my opinion.

From the transcript, when Mitchell is relating his story:

"MITCHELL: Well, I eventually [after having acquaintances tell him about "Roswellian"-type events] went to the Pentagon and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff which I got with another naval officer who had had many similar experience and we told our story and this gentleman, a vice admiral, said to us, well, I don't know about that but I'm going to find out. And called a few weeks later and said he had found the source of the black budget funding for this project and that he was going to subsequently investigate because if it was real he should know about it, as a matter of fact, he should be in charge, those were his words.

And so we did get calls from some time later and a report much later than that that he had found the people responsible for the cover-up and for the people who were in the know and were told, I'm sorry, admiral, you do not have need to know here and so, goodbye."

If such a meeting took place, then there is surely a record of it.

A Vice-Admiral would probably(?) chair such a committee, being the equivalent of a Lieutenant General. (3 stars)

Although I doubt an FOIA would yield notes from the meeting, it might reveal that such a meeting took place.

When a man that walked on the Moon visits the Pentagon, I would imagine some ripples are generated --- maybe a photograph or two.

 

[fitzbew88]

From the transcript: "MITCHELL: Well, I eventually [after having acquaintances tell him about "Roswellian"-type events] went to the Pentagon and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff which I got..."

After spending an hour researching this I have to say at a minimum we are going to have to get Dr. Mitchell to thoroughly clarify the particulars of this meeting. There was at one time a Joint Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but it appears to have been disbanded when the Defense Intelligence Agency(DIA) was created in 1961, possibly earlier.

Dr. Mitchell joined the Navy in 1953 and retired in 1972. Did he request the meeting while he was still in the Navy? Gutsy. It seems more likely to me that this meeting would've taken place after he left the Navy, when he could leverage his astronaut fame to get a foot in the door.

If the meeting was after 1972, then critically-minded folks would have to ask why he identified the organization as "Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff" and not simply the "Defense Intelligence Agency."

The JCS still has an Intelligence Directorate (referred to as J2) but it seems to be largely set up to process intel requests from the services. This organization's official title is "Directorate for Intelligence, Joint Staff" on the DIA organization chart. And it is merely part of the DIA.

It would've been better for Dr. Mitchell to say that he requested a meeting with the Defense Intelligence Agency, but alas nothing is that simple. Right now, it would be easy for determined skeptics to throw a pall of incredulity over the whole account due to this sort of trivial issues.

Until more information as available, I am going to have to put this little piece of Roswellian lore in my gray basket. I'm not saying he's being deceptive, just not exact enough to be useful.

 

[uforadio]

From the transcript, when Mitchell is relating his story:

"MITCHELL: Well, I eventually [after having acquaintances tell him about "Roswellian"-type events] went to the Pentagon and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff which I got with another naval officer

<snip>

A Vice-Admiral would probably(?) chair such a committee, being the equivalent of a Lieutenant General. (3 stars)

Although I doubt an FOIA would yield notes from the meeting, it might reveal that such a meeting took place.

<snip>

Yes the meeting in question has happened in April of 1997. between Edgar Mitchell, Steven Greer and late Shari Adamiak. My gues about "another naval officer" is US Naval Reserve Commander Willard H. Miller. The Pentagon officer in question is Joint Staff Director of Intelligence Rear Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, U.S. Navy. The story is confirmed from severel sources by now.

For those who would like to find out more about the whole issue I would recommend excellent Paracast interview with Richard Dolan from July of last year where the Dolan has emphasized that he was able to get Wilson over the telephone and he received partial confirmation from Wilson directly about the meeting but without additional details. During the conversation after the Wilson has figured out the subject of the conversation he has become very angy and he has slamed the phone.

Anyway I have just edited without commercials and converted last Larry King Live to Xvid AVI and hopefuly I will uploaded it for everyone tonight. I will put some additional stuff about this story - recently at National Television where I am working we were able to acquire interview with Edgar Mitchell too and I have assambled the questions for him. During the interview he has also mentioned the Pentagon briefing.

So stay tuned for other details.
I will upload soon.

Best regards.
Giuliano

 

[CapnG]

I caught some of this. My immediate response was "Holy shit, is that BILL NYE?" I'm forced to wonder what a comedian-turned-tv-scientist has in the way of qualifications to act as an authoritative counter-balance to actual persons of note and full-time researchers.

That said, it's only because of the upcomming anniversary of the Roswell incident, something we all know has been beaten to death and which we will never, EVER know the truth of (and probably wouldn't recognize it anyway).

 

[fitzbew88]

Yes the meeting in question has happened in April of 1997. between Edgar Mitchell, Steven Greer and late Shari Adamiak. My gues about "another naval officer" is US Naval Reserve Commander Willard H. Miller. The Pentagon officer in question is Joint Staff Director of Intelligence Rear Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, U.S. Navy. The story is confirmed from severel sources by now.

I see. Well that would definitely be J2 then. Mitchell was merely playing loosely with organizational names.

So, Greer (presumably using Mitchell's fame?) engineers a meeting with the head of J2. They go in and dump all this on Wilson, who expresses surprise and agrees to check into it.

Then (from the transcript), Mitchell describes the outcome:

"And so we did get calls from some time later and a report much later than that that he had found the people responsible for the cover-up and for the people who were in the know and were told, I'm sorry, admiral, you do not have need to know here and so, goodbye."

A "report from much later"? "Calls from some time later"? This sounds like Wilson did not really follow-up, and that Mitchell got "answers" incidentally. If that's true, then we really have gained nothing.

Dolan later is able to confirm the meeting took place but the Admiral gets irritated when he discovers the call is about UFO's. (After all, we love Dolan but he's no astronaut. )

I'm also unhappy that Mitchell stated that Wilson told him that "...he [Wilson] should be in charge" of any such program. That doesn't seem to match very well J2's mission statement. (I realize this is somewhat speculative, not knowing what such a Ultra-super-duper-secret organization might look like or what its goals may be.)

It is good to know that the meeting really did take place.

 

[Flatwoods]

I watched the entire interview last night, and was shocked by how poorly the segment was put together. Too many guests with stories that had nothing to do with one another. I laughed when that one lady told the story about her dad talking to one of the aliens, and then said that the Roswell crash couldn't have been a Mogul balloon because balloons don't talk. Really now.

Bill Nye came off looking very misinformed, especially when he pointed to the picture of the pre-launch Viking lander and claimed it was a fake. I guess it's too much to assume that a SCIENCE reporter should know a thing or two about one of our most famous space probes.

That and the part where he claimed that Steve Fossett disappeared while riding in a balloon, and this proves that even large balloons can disappear when they veer off course(I'm not going to even waste time on that one). I turned off my TV after that.

 

[fitzbew88]

Then (from the Larry King transcript), Mitchell describes the outcome of his meeting with Admiral Wilson:

"And so we did get calls from some time later and a report much later than that that he had found the people responsible for the cover-up and for the people who were in the know and were told, I'm sorry, admiral, you do not have need to know here and so, goodbye."

A "report from much later"? "Calls from some time later"? This sounds like Wilson did not really follow-up, and that Mitchell got "answers" incidentally. If that's true, then we really have gained nothing.

I'm afraid this is a bit of a misunderstanding (mistake) on my part. Regarding the follow-up with Mitchell by Wilson, in the Larry King interview Mitchell says:

"...and [he][presumably Wilson] called a few weeks later and said he had found the source of the black budget funding for this project and that he was going to subsequently investigate because if it was real he should know about it, as a matter of fact, he should be in charge, those were his words."

Then, also in the Larry King interview, Mitchell describes some other kind've follow-up although in a much more vague fashion (again, from above):

"And so we did get calls from some time later and a report much later than that that he had found the people responsible for the cover-up and for the people who were in the know and were told, I'm sorry, admiral, you do not have need to know here and so, goodbye."

In an interview in June 2007 (and thank you very much, Giuliano, for sharing!) Mitchell describes the meeting thus:

"...And he [Wilson] called me a few weeks later and said "You're right on, these things are real, I should be in charge of that but I'm not." And, ah, we do know that there have been very high-level people politicians over the last years from Barry Goldwater, through, ah, Jerry Ford, and others in our government, and President Clinton, Bill Clinton, tried to break into that circle of knowledge and were resoundingly rebuffed."

So, based on these interviews (although there are small discrepancies) it is clear that Mitchell is saying that Wilson followed up with him after the meeting. It was not "incidental" information, like I had thought. At some point, Mitchell was told that Wilson was denied access to the "cover-up" because of need-to-know, but it's not clear where that came from.

So, in my own mind, these questions remain (taking Mitchell's account at face value):

1) How could any such program exist without the knowledge of upper-level DIA officials?
2) How was Wilson able to confirm the program's existence, source the funding, find out who was in charge, etc.. without a need-to-know even though U.S. Presidents are reportedly not capable of doing so?
3) And once Wilson discovered the truth, why in the world would he call Mitchell up and *confirm* the existence of the secret program?
4) Why did Wilson think he should be "in charge" of such a program?

Wilson was promoted to Director of the DIA in 1999, two years after the meeting with Mitchell. I don't believe he earned that job by confirming the existence of ultra-ultra-secret programs to civilians.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I agree, Fitzbew. Something seems unusual about this story. Keep in mind that Mitchell was teamed up with Greer on this one. Perhaps, after the meeting, what really happened was that Greer told Mitchell, several weeks later, that he had heard back from Wilson, who said the bit about Wilson lacking a need to know. If Greer was Mitchell's only source as to the outcome of Wilson's look into the funding issue, then Mitchell's statement on this is questionable indeed.

Does anyone here have any insight into the falling out between Greer and Mitchell? I know that they don't work together anymore. Does this have something to do with it?

I really don't know much about Edgar Mitchell, except to say that he's extremely well respected and has been to the moon, that he runs the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and that he thinks ET is visiting. He also appeared on C2C with Uri Geller (a total phony, here's one instance where Randi was actually spot on) and the two seemed to be good buddies. But then, I'm buddies with a few jerkoffs, too. That shouldn't necessarily disqualify him as a credible source. Still, however. Steven Greer, Uri Geller -- who else? Is it possible or likely that, in his elder years, Dr. Mitchell has lost a bit of discernment? He teams up with two frauds, obvious frauds at that. What gives?

 

[fitzbew88]

I agree, Fitzbew. Something seems unusual about this story. Keep in mind that Mitchell was teamed up with Greer on this one. Perhaps, after the meeting, what really happened was that Greer told Mitchell, several weeks later, that he had heard back from Wilson, who said the bit about Wilson lacking a need to know. If Greer was Mitchell's only source as to the outcome of Wilson's look into the funding issue, then Mitchell's statement on this is questionable indeed.

Yes, it's distressing Greer's fingerprints are on this.

But I am somewhat assured by the fact that Mitchell describes the follow-up:

"...And he [Wilson] called me a few weeks later and said "You're right on, these things are real, I should be in charge of that but I'm not."

and also, in the Larry King interview: "...and [he][presumably Wilson] called a few weeks later and said he had found the source of the black budget funding for this project and that he was going to subsequently investigate because if it was real he should know about it, as a matter of fact, he should be in charge, those were his words."

So, it seems that Mitchell says that Wilson followed up with him, and the information has not directly been Greerified.

This issue boils the UFO cover-up issue down to an unusually "distilled" point: If Mitchell is telling the truth, there is a substantial government-run UFO project that is so secret that even key DIA leaders are not cognizant of it.

If Mitchell is not telling the truth, then the whole story is trash.

I have always been very skeptical about the "vast government conspiracy" concept, and I am wondering if I should revise that opinion.

I really don't know much about Edgar Mitchell, except to say that he's extremely well respected and has been to the moon, that he runs the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and that he thinks ET is visiting. He also appeared on C2C with Uri Geller (a total phony, here's one instance where Randi was actually spot on) and the two seemed to be good buddies. But then, I'm buddies with a few jerkoffs, too. That shouldn't necessarily disqualify him as a credible source. Still, however. Steven Greer, Uri Geller -- who else? Is it possible or likely that, in his elder years, Dr. Mitchell has lost a bit of discernment? He teams up with two frauds, obvious frauds at that. What gives?

Mitchell has definitely been involved in some weird stuff. Woo woo stuff.

Is it possible Wilson just "gave" Mitchell a wild story to get the off-his-rocker astronaut off of his back?

I think we now have to see what Wilson says about this meeting.