• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

False Memories

Free episodes:

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Here's an interesting article from 1999 about how easily our memory is fooled:


Memories Are Made of This



ABCNews.com/June 16, 1999
By Claudine Chamberlain


On the presidential campaign trail in 1980, Ronald Reagan was fond of telling the story of a World War II pilot whose plane had been badly hit, forcing the crew to bail out. When one of his gunners was too injured to jump, the pilot stayed with him, pledging, "We'll ride it down together."
There was just one problem with the heart-wrenching story - it wasn't real. Instead, it was a scene from the 1944 movie, A Wing and a Prayer. Reagan remembered the details, but not where they came from.
Harvard psychologist Daniel Schacter uses the Reagan example in his book Searching for Memory to show how certain stories we've heard can start to seem like real life. And now a new study from the University of Washington in Seattle shows just how malleable our memories really are.

Reality Bites

Psychology student Liz Sanders found that after simply reading a story about something mildly traumatic happening to a child, people were more likely than people who hadn't read the story to think they had experienced the trauma themselves as children, even when they hadn't. "We need to be careful as to what we assume our autobiographical memory to be," Sanders says. "Maybe we can make the error of believing that we did something when we only read about it."
Sanders's experiment was born of similar work done at the University of Washington by memory expert Dr. Elizabeth Loftus - most notably the famous "Lost in the Shopping Mall" experiment of the early 1990s.
In that research, Loftus showed that, with a little coaxing and help from a back-up "eyewitness," 25 percent of people could become falsely convinced they had suffered the upsetting experience of being lost in the mall as a youngster, even embellishing the story with added details.

No Power of Persuasion

In the 15 years leading up to the "mall" study, Loftus had shown in several other experiments that the power of suggestion could prompt people to remember all sorts of things inaccurately. As a result, she has become one of the country's most sought-after experts in criminal trials for casting doubt on the accuracy of eyewitness testimony, and a pariah among child-abuse survivors for questioning so-called recovered memories. In this latest study, Sanders, who was assisted by Loftus, cut out the element of persuasion. She merely asked people to read a one-page story about a child's experience - either getting lost in a mall or being picked on by a bully.
One week later, when asked a seemingly unrelated question about their childhoods, half of the subjects thought they had lived through a similar experience themselves. Among students who hadn't read the story, only 27 percent thought such a thing had happened to them.
And, surprisingly, the effect was stronger when people read stories about children of the opposite sex. Sanders said she had been expecting more false memories when women read stories about girls, and men read about boys, but the opposite was true. So far, she says, she has no theories as to why that happened.
Just as Loftus's original work was used to suggest that psychotherapists might be implanting false memories of childhood abuse into their patients' minds, this latest study might have implications for anyone who undergoes group therapy or watches a lot of TV.
Fabrications Large and Small? For example, Loftus says, therapists who work with traumatized war veterans have told stories of how one veteran might inadvertently "borrow" a harrowing combat tale from another vet who's in the same support group. "It's the familiarity effect," she says. "It feels familiar, but then you misattribute that to your own life."
In Sanders's experiment, the memory effect seemed to fade after two weeks. When quizzed 15 days after they initially read the story, only 39 percent of the students thought the event had happened to them.
Harvard psychiatrist Dr. Judith Herman, who treats trauma survivors, is skeptical that such experiments apply to real life. "It's easy to convince a certain percentage of people to fabricate a memory that's plausible in the context of normal life," she says. "The question is, can you generalize from that to implanting a memory of being raped by your dad? That's an awful big leap."
Whether studies like this can be used to cast doubt on memories of severe childhood trauma is still controversial, but at the very least it has the unsettling effect of making you wonder how much of your life story is truly yours.
 
I suspect that confabulation and this kind of "memory piracy" has its role in UFO cases, particularly abduction cases. I think that the abduction scenario is a tool that mentally imbalanced people can use to make themselves important, to bring attention to themselves, etc. I am not saying that it doesn't happen. I don't know. And those who confabulate around this are banking on that.

I spend most of my time on the South Kona coast which is the "Sedona" of the Pacific. It is filled with New Age gurus and belief systems. The people there are particularly uncritical - Mr. Michael Salla lives there as well... They tell stories of every kind including encounters with alien beings, big foots (big feet?), etc... One individual, Joan Ocean, has a running dialog with interdimensional Sasquatches living in her back yard and she holds a monthly meeting to communicate with the many species of aliens that are visiting Earth (sarc).
Michael Salla hosts "gazing" sessions with "Braco the Gazer" in his home and he, along with his "multidimensional telepath" spouse are neck deep in all kinds of nonsense like this.
I think that many people simply do not want to be who they are and want to feel special or different and these confabulations and ridiculous beliefs serve a specific purpose for them.. They want to believe something and since belief is a choice, they choose to believe this nonsense vs a Christian nonsense or some other variety.
Personally, having my own direct experiences with UAP that are particularly challenging for me, I was worried about confusing my memories with movie scenes and other media on the topic. For years I avoided watching films about alien topics, ignored hypnotherapy as a conduit for false or distorted memory recovery, and just tried to live with my memories. I think it helped but the memories themselves are real enough and, since others were present on several occasions, I am able to have a "grounding" point to anchor my reality to.
This is some very tricky stuff to understand, much like Oberg's assertion that pilots and police are unreliable witnesses. He is wrong for many reasons but the problem remains... How can we be certain that what an individual tells us about their life experience is "real"?
 
I suspect that confabulation and this kind of "memory piracy" has its role in UFO cases, particularly abduction cases. I think that the abduction scenario is a tool that mentally imbalanced people can use to make themselves important, to bring attention to themselves, etc. I am not saying that it doesn't happen. I don't know. And those who confabulate around this are banking on that.

I spend most of my time on the South Kona coast which is the "Sedona" of the Pacific. It is filled with New Age gurus and belief systems. The people there are particularly uncritical - Mr. Michael Salla lives there as well... They tell stories of every kind including encounters with alien beings, big foots (big feet?), etc... One individual, Joan Ocean, has a running dialog with interdimensional Sasquatches living in her back yard and she holds a monthly meeting to communicate with the many species of aliens that are visiting Earth (sarc).
Michael Salla hosts "gazing" sessions with "Braco the Gazer" in his home and he, along with his "multidimensional telepath" spouse are neck deep in all kinds of nonsense like this.
I think that many people simply do not want to be who they are and want to feel special or different and these confabulations and ridiculous beliefs serve a specific purpose for them.. They want to believe something and since belief is a choice, they choose to believe this nonsense vs a Christian nonsense or some other variety.
Personally, having my own direct experiences with UAP that are particularly challenging for me, I was worried about confusing my memories with movie scenes and other media on the topic. For years I avoided watching films about alien topics, ignored hypnotherapy as a conduit for false or distorted memory recovery, and just tried to live with my memories. I think it helped but the memories themselves are real enough and, since others were present on several occasions, I am able to have a "grounding" point to anchor my reality to.
This is some very tricky stuff to understand, much like Oberg's assertion that pilots and police are unreliable witnesses. He is wrong for many reasons but the problem remains... How can we be certain that what an individual tells us about their life experience is "real"?


I wouldn't say that alien abduction "victims" are all mentally unbalanced - although some may be. I think it's more of an issue of not understanding psychology.
About Oberg; I don't think that he should say that they are unreliable, but it should be noted that they can fall prey to the same issues we all are susceptible to. That's what's important to think about. I mean, look at the Reagan example - he was your president!! He completely messed up his memory of what he saw. That's why when I hear people talking about events that happened many years ago, recalling events from memory, I have trouble putting too much into it.
 
I didn't say that all who claim abduction are confabulating, just that some who do confabulate find the abduction scenario useful...
As for Oberg... we deal with aviation cases and are well aware of the perceptual failings of pilots and witnesses in general. Dr. Haines is far more experienced with it than Oberg. I don't think that Oberg is a pilot and he certainly isn't a perceptual psychologist or an AAI (Aviation Accident Investigator) and probably should not be pontificating about this.... While pilots can be fooled by space junk, etc., there are plenty of observations supported by radar detections, multiple aircraft, etc to counter that argument. He makes no comment about the phenomena at Hessdalen as a precedent for the case that there are are UAP and he certainly ignores the conclusions of the UK MOD Condign Report which states "that UAP exist is indisputable" right in the executive summary. He is either uneducated or intellectually dishonest....
The Reagan example is interesting but when you offset it with people who have very clear memories, independently validated, you have to wonder how prevalent it really is. He was known to have dementia and it was settling in earlier in his presidency than many wanted to admit. How many times did he say "I don't remember." during the Iran Contra hearings?
 
I didn't say that all who claim abduction are confabulating, just that some who do confabulate find the abduction scenario useful...
As for Oberg... we deal with aviation cases and are well aware of the perceptual failings of pilots and witnesses in general. Dr. Haines is far more experienced with it than Oberg. I don't think that Oberg is a pilot and he certainly isn't a perceptual psychologist or an AAI (Aviation Accident Investigator) and probably should not be pontificating about this.... While pilots can be fooled by space junk, etc., there are plenty of observations supported by radar detections, multiple aircraft, etc to counter that argument. He makes no comment about the phenomena at Hessdalen as a precedent for the case that there are are UAP and he certainly ignores the conclusions of the UK MOD Condign Report which states "that UAP exist is indisputable" right in the executive summary. He is either uneducated or intellectually dishonest....
The Reagan example is interesting but when you offset it with people who have very clear memories, independently validated, you have to wonder how prevalent it really is. He was known to have dementia and it was settling in earlier in his presidency than many wanted to admit. How many times did he say "I don't remember." during the Iran Contra hearings?

Hopefully we will some day find out what these pilots are seeing, be it alien, psychological, man made, or made up. I can't really say until we have good hard data, like we do for all other accepted phenomena that we once thought did not exist.
 
@Angel

So I see that you also choose to ignore the work at Hessdalen and similar sites including their instrument data and the UK MOD report. Why is that? Why doesn't your list of potentials include poorly documented natural phenomena?
Google "Hessdalen EMBLA" for papers, video, etc...
http://www.hessdalen.org

<cite>http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/EMBLA-2000.pdf</cite>

http://www.itacomm.net

UK MOD Condign Report
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/freedomofinformation/publicationscheme/searchpublicationscheme/unidentifiedaerialphenomenauapintheukairdefenceregion.htm

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7D2B11E0-EA9F-45EA-8883-A3C00546E752/0/uap_exec_summary_dec00.pdf
 
Hopefully we will some day find out what these pilots are seeing, be it alien, psychological, man made, or made up. I can't really say until we have good hard data, like we do for all other accepted phenomena that we once thought did not exist.


See here's my problem with this kind of stuff. Being "in the biz" in a sense I cringe. So and so did "research" "expereiments." Sloppy! Hearsay! If I say to you "I did research and found that aliens have landed what would you say? SHOW ME! Have others also verified? Which population? What control group? Over how many years? What was the margin of error?
How many people are there to choose your random sample from? The sample size doesn't change much for populations larger than 20,000.

For some reason folks who are "skeptical" when a researcher says "I've found proof of ESP or Remote Viewing" just melt when a researcher says something they like. Just food for thought and being the Devils Advocate.

There are lies, Damn lies and then there are "statistics." ;)

---------- Post added at 06:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

tyder001 said:
See here's my problem with this kind of stuff. Being "in the biz" in a sense I cringe. So and so did "research" "expereiments." Sloppy! Hearsay! If I say to you "I did research and found that aliens have landed what would you say? SHOW ME! Have others also verified? Which population? What control group? Over how many years? What was the margin of error?
How many people are there to choose your random sample from? The sample size doesn't change much for populations larger than 20,000.

For some reason folks who are "skeptical" when a researcher says "I've found proof of ESP or Remote Viewing" just melt when a researcher says something they like. Just food for thought and being the Devils Advocate.

There are lies, Damn lies and then there are "statistics." ;)

However, Angel I do like this.

Harvard psychiatrist Dr. Judith Herman, who treats trauma survivors, is skeptical that such experiments apply to real life. "It's easy to convince a certain percentage of people to fabricate a memory that's plausible in the context of normal life," she says. "The question is, can you generalize from that to implanting a memory of being raped by your dad? That's an awful big leap."
Whether studies like this can be used to cast doubt on memories of severe childhood trauma is still controversial, but at the very least it has the unsettling effect of making you wonder how much of your life story is truly yours.

Shows you didn't just shoot from the hip. I really think you would be an interesting person to have coffee with or a beer. But, I guess the "randi vs spirituality" thing would always be a point of contention. Still, thanks for making me stretch out of my comfort zone.
 
@Angel

So I see that you also choose to ignore the work at Hessdalen and similar sites including their instrument data and the UK MOD report. Why is that? Why doesn't your list of potentials include poorly documented natural phenomena?
Google "Hessdalen EMBLA" for papers, video, etc...
http://www.hessdalen.org

<cite>http://www.[B]hessdalen[/B].org/reports/EMBLA-2000.pdf</cite>

http://www.itacomm.net

UK MOD Condign Report
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/f...aerialphenomenauapintheukairdefenceregion.htm

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7D2B11E0-EA9F-45EA-8883-A3C00546E752/0/uap_exec_summary_dec00.pdf

Relax there Ted - I didn't choose to ignore anything. I guess I should have been more clear, but I did leave it open to anything with my last statement. I'll try to be much more specific from now on. I think that unknown natural phenomenon is probably responsible for almost all paranormal phenomenon.

I guess I have to be careful since everyone is waiting to jump on the skeptic. I'm not looking to debunk your work, so please don't jump down my throat with all those links.

Thanks,
A

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

So and so did "research" "expereiments." Sloppy! Hearsay! If I say to you "I did research and found that aliens have landed what would you say? SHOW ME! Have others also verified? Which population? What control group? Over how many years? What was the margin of error? How many people are there to choose your random sample from? The sample size doesn't change much for populations larger than 20,000.

Tyder, that's how science works. You can disagree with it if you wish, but it won't change.
 
Relax there Ted - I didn't choose to ignore anything. I guess I should have been more clear, but I did leave it open to anything with my last statement. I'll try to be much more specific from now on. I think that unknown natural phenomenon is probably responsible for almost all paranormal phenomenon.

I guess I have to be careful since everyone is waiting to jump on the skeptic. I'm not looking to debunk your work, so please don't jump down my throat with all those links.

Thanks,
A

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------



Tyder, that's how science works. You can disagree with it if you wish, but it won't change.


My dear friend I have a Degree in the "soft" sciences. I know how it works. It does change! That's what research is for. Still, I enjoy the conversation.
 
My dear friend I have a Degree in the "soft" sciences. I know how it works. It does change! That's what research is for. Still, I enjoy the conversation.

How so? Science changes to conform with new discoveries, yes, but the scientific method remains the same. I was commenting on the fact that you seem to get annoyed when people research something, and then ask for results. Results and falsifiability are extremely important in science.
 
@Angel

No offense intended. It just seems that those who are "skeptical" often have a bias against engaging the material I just shared.....and Oberg is well aware of it and consciously chooses to ignore it. Intellectual dishonesty can cut two ways....
 
How so? Science changes to conform with new discoveries, yes, but the scientific method remains the same. I was commenting on the fact that you seem to get annoyed when people research something, and then ask for results. Results and falsifiability are extremely important in science.


Angel, you remeber when somebody said something about "art?" You are in the biz and so even if they didn't agree you felt you had (rightly so) some standing to comment. That's all this is dude. Don't worry about it. Just wanted to let you know I know how science works. Especially the so called "soft" sciences. I try to be polite cause your a nice enough guy. But please stop with the "you,you,you." junk everytime I mention science or God or the word atheist. It's just not a very positive way to communicate with respect. :cool:

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

tyder001 said:
Angel, you remeber when somebody said something about "art?" You are in the biz and so even if they didn't agree you felt you had (rightly so) some standing to comment. That's all this is dude. Don't worry about it. Just wanted to let you know I know how science works. Especially the so called "soft" sciences. I try to be polite cause your a nice enough guy. But please stop with the "you,you,you." junk everytime I mention science or God or the word atheist. It's just not a very positive way to communicate with respect. :cool:


Also, there is not "one" scientific method. Psycology is a very different "method" than cancer surgery. Just gotta make sure your using the correct "method" for the job.
 
@Angel

No offense intended. It just seems that those who are "skeptical" often have a bias against engaging the material I just shared.....and Oberg is well aware of it and consciously chooses to ignore it. Intellectual dishonesty can cut two ways....

I have no bias engaging in any material anyone presents to me. However, I do get irritated when people are not open to exploring ALL possibilities and seem to focus on one. You are far from irritating by the way!
UFOs are a tricky subject - there's no experiment to disprove them like there is for homeopathy or anti-vaccine people.
We need to acknowledge that many people have seen something, but no one knows for sure what they have seen. It's when people start speculating as to what that something is that the the problems arise. I have read a lot on the subject, and what I have read leads me one way. You have been involved in a lot of research, so you have your point of view.
 
Angel, you remeber when somebody said something about "art?" You are in the biz and so even if they didn't agree you felt you had (rightly so) some standing to comment. That's all this is dude. Don't worry about it. Just wanted to let you know I know how science works. Especially the so called "soft" sciences. I try to be polite cause your a nice enough guy. But please stop with the "you,you,you." junk everytime I mention science or God or the word atheist. It's just not a very positive way to communicate with respect. :cool:

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------




Also, there is not "one" scientific method. Psycology is a very different "method" than cancer surgery. Just gotta make sure your using the correct "method" for the job.
Let me rephrase. There is the Scientific method. However, there are also ways in which different diciplines use them. I don't think you can honestly apply the method to the question of love or hope or even spirit. I'm not sure these things are within our present range of absolute knowledge. As for "paranormal" Perhaps, one day we will find the universe is a much more intersting place than we have ever known. It won't be "paranormal" then but it won't be ordinary either.
 
Angel, you remeber when somebody said something about "art?" You are in the biz and so even if they didn't agree you felt you had (rightly so) some standing to comment. That's all this is dude. Don't worry about it. Just wanted to let you know I know how science works. Especially the so called "soft" sciences. I try to be polite cause your a nice enough guy. But please stop with the "you,you,you." junk everytime I mention science or God or the word atheist. It's just not a very positive way to communicate with respect. :cool:

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------




Also, there is not "one" scientific method. Psycology is a very different "method" than cancer surgery. Just gotta make sure your using the correct "method" for the job.

No problem. I never said that there's one. There's actually a great wikipedia article outlining all of them.

Also, I'm not sure what "you you you" junk you are specifying. If I'm responding to a comment you have made, I will address you. I don't mean to annoy you, so sorry about that.
 
No problem. I never said that there's one. There's actually a great wikipedia article outlining all of them.

Also, I'm not sure what "you you you" junk you are specifying. If I'm responding to a comment you have made, I will address you. I don't mean to annoy you, so sorry about that.


I just read that Wiki article. It is a good one. I think we are o.k. just wanted to let ya know I do have a background in the social Sciencies and I know how they work. How to spell? Not so much. :cool:
 
Back
Top