Feb 15th show

[mike]

Thanks once again to the Hosts, Guest and Sponsors for another two excellent hours.
as usual some fascinating case studies, and discussions

 

[Gareth]

Thanks once again to the Hosts, Guest and Sponsors for another two excellent hours.
as usual some fascinating case studies, and discussions

Agreed. Im only an hour in, but this case is extremely fascinating.

 

[Mexicola]

This was a great show. I had seen Scott Gordon on a Canadian paranormal tv show a few weeks ago and after watching it I immediately checked the Paracast archives hoping they had interviewed him... So I was really excited for this episode and was not let down at all. I think Scott has got to be considered one of the top invesigators, I'll be picking up his DVD for a little more in depth research.

 

[Gareth]

Great fucking show guys. Good work.

This dude was great. Open mind but not too much. Hasnt made up his mind on anything. Doesnt shy away from high strangeness. Isnt afraid to posit an interconnectedness theory.

 

[BrandonD]

Awesome show, the Kecksburg case is very compelling.

What are forum members' feelings on the "military experiment" explanation of this case?

If we look at the fact that 1) Some ufos appear to be physical craft, and 2) Military groups develop their weapons and vehicles in secret, then I don't see how outlandish it is to consider the possibility of a terrestrial origin to some of these crafts.

I don't think that this is the explanation of the kecksburg incident, just a legitimate possibility. The ufos that are described as physical vehicles with flames and crazy radiation effects always strike me as probable military experiments.

No one wants to go here, but it seems a possibility that the nazis had some sort of unconventional aircraft in a developmental stage at the end of WWII, and this research was further developed by the US military when they imported all those nazi scientists.

One flying device that was alleged to be in development by nazi scientists was called "the bell". It was shaped like an acorn, had the same physical dimensions as the kecksburg ufo, and was housed in a casing of ceramic bricks. I believe Mr Gordon mentioned a man delivering ceramic bricks to the military site of this acorn-shaped object.

Of course, there exists no proof beyond testimony to support the existence of alleged military projects such as these. But as of now, most paranormal subjects are supported by little more than witness testimony.

I know this is one of those paranormal areas that "respectable" ufo people aren't supposed to talk about, so I guess I'm just asking those people who don't care about their reputation.

If there's actually a good reason that this possibility isn't even worth mentioning then please feel free to set me straight. However, if you don't want to talk about it because mentioning ufos and nazis in the same sentence sounds absurd and embarrassing, then keep in mind that this mentality is the same reason that your co-workers don't want to talk to you about paranormal subjects in general.

 

[marduk]

No one wants to go here, but it seems a possibility that the nazis had some sort of unconventional aircraft in a developmental stage at the end of WWII, and this research was further developed by the US military when they imported all those nazi scientists.

One flying device that was alleged to be in development by nazi scientists was called "the bell". It was shaped like an acorn, had the same physical dimensions as the kecksburg ufo, and was housed in a casing of ceramic bricks. I believe Mr Gordon mentioned a man delivering ceramic bricks to the military site of this acorn-shaped object.

I think you're referring to this, which wasn't supposed to be a flying device itself, but supposedly an antigravity generator proof of concept.

The device is described as a metallic, approximately 9 feet wide and 12 to 15 feet high with a shape similar to a bell. It contained two counter-rotating cylinders filled with a highly radioactive, purple substance only known as Xerum 525<sup id="cite_ref-cook192_4-0" class="reference">[5]</sup>, which has been speculated to be Red mercury.<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">[6]</sup> When active, The Bell would emit strong radiation, which led to the death of several scientists<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[7]</sup> and various plant and animal test subjects.<sup id="cite_ref-cook192_4-1" class="reference">[5]</sup>

It's interesting due to the physical similarity to the two but if occupants are supposed to be involved, I'd personally expect a different shape. Kind of like how your car isn't shaped like an engine.

Personally I think the most likely explanation is the downed Cosmos 96 probe (part of the Venera Venus Soviet probes) which supposedly came down in Canada the same day. It would have been relatively easy to claim that it came down in Canada instead of the US so it could have been retrieved without incident. Something to note is that there is a long time agreement with all spacefaring nations that they get back anything that comes down by accident. I know that this supposedly isn't the case, but it still makes sense to me.

And, damn, but the accounts look like the top end of the Cosmos 96. Compare this and this.

 

[Ally]

BrandonD
I was also thinking the nazi bell as possibility of this case. Have you read or heard Dr Joseph Farrell's books or interviews?

 

[BrandonD]

It's interesting due to the physical similarity to the two but if occupants are supposed to be involved, I'd personally expect a different shape. Kind of like how your car isn't shaped like an engine.

An engine only has extra parts because it can't move around on its own. If it could, then perhaps our cars would be just a shell around an engine.

Personally I think the most likely explanation is the downed Cosmos 96 probe (part of the Venera Venus Soviet probes) which supposedly came down in Canada the same day.

And, damn, but the accounts look like the top end of the Cosmos 96. Compare this and this.

Hm that's definitely a possibility, but I don't really buy it in the same way that I don't buy the mogul balloon explanation for Roswell. Cosmos is clearly a manmade object, it looks exactly like a stereotypical NASA spacecraft. It's unlikely scores of people would mistake it for anything else.

And this also doesn't address the decades of unnecessary secrecy.

 

[marduk]

An engine only has extra parts because it can't move around on its own. If it could, then perhaps our cars would be just a shell around an engine.

Agreed, except that in this case the bell was supposed to be filled with radioactive liquids spinning in different directions... if there were occupants inside they must be glowing and able to hold their breath for a long time!

Hm that's definitely a possibility, but I don't really buy it in the same way that I don't buy the mogul balloon explanation for Roswell. Cosmos is clearly a manmade object, it looks exactly like a stereotypical NASA spacecraft. It's unlikely scores of people would mistake it for anything else.

And this also doesn't address the decades of unnecessary secrecy.

I don't buy the mogul story either... but I do buy the Cosmos one.

It would be pretty embarrassing to admit to the world that they kept Cosmos all these years when they agreed not to. Especially since it wasn't a military probe; it was a benign (but interesting) scientific mission.

To break it down from my perspective:
1. Same basic morphology as Cosmos
2. Came down the same day as Cosmos
3. Had "cyrillic-like" lettering around the flange just like Cosmos.
4. NASA would have been involved if it were Cosmos science probe. Possibly not if it were a straight military job.
5. US military and NASA would've wanted to keep the probe to check out Soviet space engineering secrets.

It's not that I'm not open to other possibilities like the ET nuts 'n bolts theory. My first thought was that it sounded like some kind of escape pod. But the Cosmos one just fits too well IMHO.

More info here:
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/masterCatalog.do?sc=1965-094A

 

[Tommy Allison]

Die Glocke I believe was just the engine part of a larger craft. There were several designs on the table that incorporated the Bell.

I remember reading a book from the mid 70's about the German UFO link, and how they were developing all kinds of bizarre aircraft with unconventional power sources.

 

[BrandonD]

3. Had "cyrillic-like" lettering around the flange just like Cosmos.

Is that Cyrillic lettering around it? In the photo it appears to be just numbers.

Your idea definitely seems to be a more solid argument than the Mogul balloon explanation. In your scenario did all those external pieces burn away on re-entry into the atmosphere? Because all the accounts tell of a smooth, rather featureless acorn shape.

 

[BrandonD]

BrandonD
I was also thinking the nazi bell as possibility of this case. Have you read or heard Dr Joseph Farrell's books or interviews?

No but I'll definitely check him out. Thanks

 

[dusty]

Hi Brandon,

Thought you might find this series of vids interesting.

Nothing new but you may not have seen it, Part 2 in particular.

Mark

 

[marduk]

Is that Cyrillic lettering around it? In the photo it appears to be just numbers.

Your idea definitely seems to be a more solid argument than the Mogul balloon explanation. In your scenario did all those external pieces burn away on re-entry into the atmosphere? Because all the accounts tell of a smooth, rather featureless acorn shape.

Hmm... you might be right about the numbers. Hard to tell and that's the only Kosmos-96 image I could find.
Other probes in the same line include this one with Cyrillic around it.

My thoughts exactly about the smooth shape -- could've burned off all the antennas and sticky-outy bits into a more smooth shape. It did come down uncontrolled after all.

 

[paraschtick]

No but I'll definitely check him out. Thanks

The books to read are "Reich of the Black Sun" and "The SS Brotherhood of the Bell"

In "Reich ... ", Dr Farrell outlines some of the devices and concepts that the Nazis apparently were playing around with. Utterly mindboggling what they were developing. He only touches on "The Bell" in this book.

In "The SS Brotherhood ...", he apparently goes into more (speculative admittedly) detail about the Bell and the experiments surrounding its development.

Dr Farrell makes a very very good case for the Kecksburg UFO being a Bell-like device. Some of the "coincidental" data points being the shape of the UFO, the sounds coming from it, and the talk of ceramic bricks being needed to house it at the airbase.

Funny thing is that I had a very similar thought when I first read about the Bell. I immediately thought of the Kecksburgh UFO ... funny that .

But the two books (I've only read "Reich ... " as of this post) are really worth tracking down and reading. Truly astonishingly, mind boggling stuff.

Also check out the interviews at The Byte Show (a religious podcast which also seems to veer off into strange areas now and again). Here you will find a long series of 12 podcasts going into the stranger aspects of the Bell story, and its possible links to ancient texts.

Also there is a 4 part series (so far) on the possibilty of a "Nazi International" surviving WW2 and continuing research into the Bell ...

You can find The Byte Show podcasts here: http://www.thebyteshow.com/JosephPFarrell.html

[Oh and watch out for the interviewer ... she's very nice but umm ... ]

{This has been yet another in a long series of messages from the Dr Joseph P. Farrell Appreciation Society ... or DJPFAS ... mmm lovely }

 

[Ally]

I listened to all of the BYTE show interviews of Dr Farrell and found them extremely compelling. I will buy some of his books once or if I get back into a reading habit. I need to finish or at least look at several books that are just sitting around my apartment.

I also plan on attending a conference where he is speaking.

 

[sk4p]

As a native of Westmoreland County, born in Greensburg (Stan's hometown) and having twice visited Kecksburg and talked to a few locals briefly, I was really psyched to listen to this show. Fantastic work by hosts (as usual) and guest alike, gentlemen.

--Shawn

 

[Brian Now]

Is that Cyrillic lettering around it? In the photo it appears to be just numbers.

If you're talking about the photo Marduk linked to, yes it was Russian in the cyrillic alphabet. It just said "soyuz" which you probably know from their space program's name, which I don't know zip about. Or since it's printed on a round object it could just be the beginning of the Russian version of "USSR" (which I'd guess is more likely).

 

[Tommy Allison]

Hmm... you might be right about the numbers. Hard to tell and that's the only Kosmos-96 image I could find.
Other probes in the same line include this one with Cyrillic around it.

My thoughts exactly about the smooth shape -- could've burned off all the antennas and sticky-outy bits into a more smooth shape. It did come down uncontrolled after all.

If you have a bigger picture, I could tell you what it says.

 

[marduk]

If you have a bigger picture, I could tell you what it says.

Sorry, that's the only pic I could find.