Flying Saucer Crashes : Friedman vs Kaku

[Ezechiel]

Was watching a video with a frustrated Stanton Friedman wondering why people keep asking him: 'why do saucers crash if these aliens are so advanced'. His main arguments is that our planes crash and accidents happen which makes sense but....

Shouldn't his real answer be: as advanced civilizations progress and gain better control over the environments they work in, the probability of failure or accidental failure diminishes... My hypothesis is that some of these crashes are from civilizations in the early stages of inter-stellar travel.

Michio Kaku would say: 'a structured craft originating from another solar system that crashes on planet earth would likely be from a type 1 civilization... a type 2 civilization would likely be harvesting ressources in foreign solar systems and have a much more robust exploration crash/recovery strategy'.

I prefer the Kaku style which offers different scenarios at different stages of development... all of this assuming that we are surrounded by intelligent life

The idea that all alien structured craft will behave the same way and be occupied by the same race of pilots is totally wrong and is probably why it is almost impossible to get a grasp on the phenomenon. We'll only understand it when we ourselves get to travel to a life-bearing planet harboring an evolving civilization and crash into their city of Rozzwilx lolol

 

[boomerang]

I don't think we know enough about the nature of ufos, and whatever schemes they use to perform near magical feats in our skies, to speculate about energy requirements. Spectrum emissions alone--mostly in the visible regions of the specrum--can be shown to be quite high in some cases. Not, of course, high enough to necessarily involve tapping into an entire sun. But high enough and silent enough to utterly baffle our science.

What we seem to know about warping time and space is that enormous amounts of energy are required. At least using earthly physics. I don't think we can even say with certainty that ufos are powered by resources "onboard" the craft. Whatever drives (another terra-centric term) these things could be piped in from other dimensions or parallel universes, for all we know. The zero point scenario is intuitively appealing. It suggests that energy is everywhere and free, if only we know how to reach into the fabric of space-time in the right way. But we are still in the realm of speculation.

And the usual caveat: We can't know what juicy artifacts, if any, governments may have squirreled away from public view.

 

[boomerang]

USI, That's an interesting take on the intrinsic nature of the phenomenon. Magic is indeed in the eye and brain of the beholder. By "near magic", I was referring to the sense of awe witnesses must feel during high strangeness sightings. At least, I know I would. Are there classes of things we not only do not comprehend, but can never (as h Sapiens) comprehend, that qualify as paranormal? Maybe one species' magic is another's technology in a way that cannot be completely bridged. Or not. Kurzweil seems to be suggesting that cosmic engineering is a kind of inside-out process. It seems likely that this stepped up monkey brain has its limits.

A quantum route to the stars (zero point energy, some kind of spooky action at a distance, who knows?) does seem more attractive than Dyson spheres, somehow. But I don't think we can say quite yet.

 

[Ezechiel]

I'm not as big a fan of the The Kardashev scale ( Type 1. Type 2. etc. ) mainly because it's hypothetical foundation is based on energy consumption. The fact is that as our own civilization advances, we are striving to use less and less energy. Electronics once consumed huge amounts of electricity and were far less efficient compared to what we have now.

IMHO, its more about the requirements for operating in and controlling a larger area of space than about the optimization of energy ressources. Evolution will take care of the optimization of energetic ressource use within a planetary context (type 0 civilization) for example... this is very normal and expected.

The passage from type 0 civilization to type 1 (planetary) is a paradigm shift that offers a world where seemingly unlimited energy becomes available (fusion: star power). Unlimited energy opens many doors and removes the traditional limitations of fossil fuels. Voyages within the solar system finally becomes much easier as travel time between moons and planets is dramatically reduced. (We've just discovered that earths moon potentially holds as much water as all of our oceans by the way). At that point in time, humans will be operating at much higher energetic levels since so much more energy is available. Experimentations in outer space become much more complex and humans will be testing Einsteinian limitations and special relativity quirks. Controlling planet earth and all its mechanics using star power (fusion) is what type 1 is all about

The passage from a type 1 civilization to type 2 (solar) is another paradigm shift that signals inter-solar migrations with its new energetic requirements... perhaps the creation of artificial worm-holes linking 2 points of physical space, requiring enormous amounts of energy. Tapping into star power or actually creating artificial stars is what type 2 is all about.

The passage from type 2 to type 3 (galactic) is another paradigm shift that signals inter-galactic migrations and almost infinite energetic requirements.

Operations at each stage will obviously benefit from optimizations (reduced energy requirements to accomplish a task). Technological progress is about speeding up the execution of a task and using less energy to execute it. (Current challenge for processors is reducing size, controlling heat while increasing processing speed)

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I would even be so bold as to propose that no matter how far ahead they are, there is a limit to how advanced their technology can be, (at least in this universe). Capturing the output of stars and galaxies does not qualify as "advanced" it only qualifies as big. If you stuck a huge steam turbine in a Dyson sphere to turn its energy into electricity, it still wouldn't be any more advanced than a giant steam engine. Quality does not equal quantity. Power does not equal intelligence.

I would be so bold as to propose that power without intelligence leads to self-destruction. The fact that humans haven't obliterated themselves with nuclear bombs is a good sign and we're all still here to bitch about the state of this planet lol.

If a civilization expands, acquires control of energy and physical ressources on a galactic scale... its a pretty safe bet that the infrastructure supporting this requires time-tested almost invincible organization that was able to replicate infinitely and crystalize at a galactic scale. (a bit like an out of control virus).

Intelligence and power go hand in hand... from fire to fusion and beyond. As human understanding of our environments expand, so does our capacity to find energy sources.