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Fukushima's melted cores have moved into the earth

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It's scary to think most of the United States is being showered with radiation from that mess. Not to mention they are just dumping radioactive liquid into the Pacific Ocean.
 
stonehart said:
Fukashima Fallout ...
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This is one of those perfect examples of how unless is new it's not news and it just fades out of peoples heads while the planet gets poisoned. I can't tell you how many times I've had the argument with the pro-nuclear crowd ( many of whom are know-it-all skeptics ). I'd say sure, that's all fine and good until something goes wrong. Then the level of screw-up makes any rationale for supporting nuclear power seem trivial. What's worse is that there are still these pro-nuclear pinheads out there who are downplaying the whole issue and trying to get more of these disasters-in-a-box built. I'm not anti-science or anti-nuclear. I just think that it should have been limited strictly to research in some remote location with beefed-up damage control until they figured out how to make them failsafe, or better yet, figured out fusion power.
 
spookymulder said:
Obviously the answer is the same thing one would use to treat a sprain.
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Can it be fixed with ice? That's the chilling $400 million dollar question, and the answer is actually, "No". There's really only one way to clean up this mess with the resources at Japan's disposal. They need to make a huge nuclear recycling facility nearby in the evacuated zone and start digging that crap out bit by bit, separating the radioactive material from the non-radioactive material, and then sending the reprocessable stuff through the recycling plant, then sending reprocessed material to places that need it, and sealing the unusable waste in smaller containers that can be shipped to an internationally approved nuclear waste dump site ( wherever that is ). This would leave a big open pit ( but relatively clean ) mine where the plant is now. Then they need to refine out all the radioactive material from the surface of the surrounding area and fill the hole back in with the cleaned material ( plus ship in new 100% clean material for the finish. It would require a fleet of trucks and diggers and construction people working in radiation protected gear on rotating shifts for about 16 years. Japan's government needs to step in and take over the operation instead of leaving it to the power company, who are just applying band-aid solutions that aren't fixing the problem.
 
ufology said:
Can it be fixed with ice? That's the chilling $400 million dollar question, and the answer is actually, "No". There's really only one way to clean up this mess with the resources at Japan's disposal. They need to make a huge nuclear recycling facility nearby in the evacuated zone and start digging that crap out bit by bit, separating the radioactive material from the non-radioactive material, and then sending the reprocessable stuff through the recycling plant, then sending reprocessed material to places that need it, and sealing the unusable waste in smaller containers that can be shipped to an internationally approved nuclear waste dump site ( wherever that is ). This would leave a big open pit ( but relatively clean ) mine where the plant is now. Then they need to refine out all the radioactive material from the surface of the surrounding area and fill the hole back in with the cleaned material ( plus ship in new 100% clean material for the finish. It would require a fleet of trucks and diggers and construction people working in radiation protected gear on rotating shifts for about 16 years. Japan's government needs to step in and take over the operation instead of leaving it to the power company, who are just applying band-aid solutions that aren't fixing the problem.
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I guess that is the only way that will really work but god how the hell do you dig out a reactor core that is trying to dig its way to the center of the earth? I have to wounder how long you could work in that environment or if you even could?
 
USI Calgary, you're asking so many of the right questions. Isn't it interesting how few people in the media are asking any questions at all?
The same thing with the Gulf Spill... Out of sight, out of mind... if only it were so easy and trivial!
 
stonehart said:
I guess that is the only way that will really work but god how the hell do you dig out a reactor core that is trying to dig its way to the center of the earth? I have to wounder how long you could work in that environment or if you even could?
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It would be possible to clean up Fukashima, but it would have to be done in stages with many loads, literally open pit mining around the main core until they were below it so that any water seepage would flow away from it. That would reduce the ground water contamination significantly. The next step would be to work their way into the reactor itself, start breaking pieces off it, put the pieces into an industrial shredder and move the material to the recycling plant where it would be separated, melted down, and reprocessed. As more and more material is removed, the reactor will get cooler and easier to work with. Eventually it will be gone completely, and the land reclamation stage would begin. If I can figure this out, you can be sure that they can too. But the cost would be huge. Like I said, the government needs to step in and take responsibility. They let them build the plant in the first place so they should be prepared to help clean it up.
 
ufology said:
It would be possible to clean up Fukashima, but it would have to be done in stages with many loads, literally open pit mining around the main core until they were below it so that any water seepage would flow away from it. That would reduce the ground water contamination significantly. The next step would be to work their way into the reactor itself, start breaking pieces off it, put the pieces into an industrial shredder and move the material to the recycling plant where it would be separated, melted down, and reprocessed. As more and more material is removed, the reactor will get cooler and easier to work with. Eventually it will be gone completely, and the land reclamation stage would begin. If I can figure this out, you can be sure that they can too. But the cost would be huge. Like I said, the government needs to step in and take responsibility. They let them build the plant in the first place so they should be prepared to help clean it up.
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I understand this Ufology and would be the only way to fix the problem but the powers that be in this case see no profit in it.
The problem is it is not one core it is three!! and the mad mothers still want to keep the reactors that have not melted through going! You have to ask are these people insane?
 
stonehart said:
I understand this Ufology and would be the only way to fix the problem but the powers that be in this case see no profit in it. The problem is it is not one core it is three!! and the mad mothers still want to keep the reactors that have not melted through going! You have to ask are these people insane?
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Although I'm tempted to think that because you and I can figure out how Fukashima could be cleaned up, that they should also be able to figure it out, sometimes people ( especially politicians ) don't see the obvious, and instead look for answers from even less practical people such as scientists, who were the ones that got them into the problem in the first place, but are still deemed to be authority figures on what to do. That's obviously why they've come up with the "ice wall". Who else but some scientist would conjure up that plan?

Also, while it's true that the mining approach would be a costly venture, reprocessed fissile material is still valuable and right now it's nothing but a liability, plus, knowing the Japanese, if they went this route they'd probably figure out some super efficient way of doing it that could result in a lot of savings down the road for their other plants, and maybe even earn profits from future reprocessing. The ice wall won't provide any future benefits other than expensive containment.

Someone in power over there just needs to stumble onto this idea and put someone in charge of getting it done.
 
ufology said:
Although I'm tempted to think that because you and I can figure out how Fukashima could be cleaned up, that they should also be able to figure it out, sometimes people ( especially politicians ) don't see the obvious, and instead look for answers from even less practical people such as scientists, who were the ones that got them into the problem in the first place, but are still deemed to be authority figures on what to do. That's obviously why they've come up with the "ice wall". Who else but some scientist would conjure up that plan?

Also, while it's true that the mining approach would be a costly venture, reprocessed fissile material is still valuable and right now it's nothing but a liability, plus, knowing the Japanese, if they went this route they'd probably figure out some super efficient way of doing it that could result in a lot of savings down the road for their other plants, and maybe even earn profits from future reprocessing. The ice wall won't provide any future benefits other than expensive containment.

Someone in power over there just needs to stumble onto this idea and put someone in charge of getting it done.
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Nice post and good point.
I am an engineer by trade so yeah the idea makes sense to me as it is practical ... but god an ice wall! there are so many problems with this idea from an engineering point of view I really do not know where to begin!
There has to be an engineer or two over there that is going to point out that the idea is horrible.
 
When I first read the article I thought it was a ridiculous idea, but then I thought maybe I was looking at it the wrong way. I thought they were trying to contain the former reactor...now nuclear sludge pile. ..with this ice but isn't the idea of the ice wall to stop any "outside" water from getting near the site so as not to leech back out into the ocean? In lieu of stopping the reaction completely, which doesn't seem likely any time soon as they have been at it for over two years is this not a fairly good idea @ least until some divine guidance lends a hand?
 
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spookymulder said:
When I first read the article I thought it was a ridiculous idea, but then I thought maybe I was looking at it the wrong way. I thought they were trying to contain the former reactor...now nuclear sludge pile. ..with this ice but isn't the idea of the ice wall to stop any "outside" water from getting near the site so as not to leech back out into the ocean? In lieu of stopping the reaction completely, which doesn't seem likely any time soon as they have been at it for over two years is this not a fairly good idea @ least until some divine guidance lends a hand?
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Ice is dynamic and moves even when frozen so solid it appears to be like concrete ... this is what has me concerned among other things... They are trying to make an artificial permafrost more or less I guess.
 
This is yet one more example of the way in which catastrophic news only finds its way down the food chain to the general public after things have become so bad that those in authority have no choice but to fess up. This disaster should have triggered intense and immediate application of global resources from day one, instead of becoming a political kabuki dance while the laws of nature continued indifferent to human ignorance.

Keerap what a mess. :(
 
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