GOVT OBTAINS WIDE AP PHONE RECORDS IN PROBE

[truthseeker]

Wow, this administration knows no end to its corruption. This is just unbelievable that they can get away with it.

Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

 

[Randall]

Wow, this administration knows no end to its corruption. This is just unbelievable that they can get away with it.

Well, to be fair, they were investigating a leak on anti-terrorist activities. Unless we see evidence that they're using these records to cover up some indiscretion of their own, then it's not really corruption so much as an investigation.

 

[truthseeker]

Well, to be fair, they were investigating a leak on anti-terrorist activities. Unless we see evidence that they're using these records to cover up some indiscretion of their own, then it's not really corruption so much as an investigation.

There is a legal way to do this. The government completely overstepped it's boundaries and
interfered with news agency's operations by obtaining information on its confidential sources. This is highly illegal and sets a really scary precedent. To top it all the government refuses to answer whether it had obtained warrant or whether any judge signed off on it.

 

[Randall]

There is a legal way to do this. The government completely overstepped it's boundaries and
interfered with news agency's operations by obtaining information on its confidential sources. This is highly illegal and sets a really scary precedent. To top it all the government refuses to answer whether it had obtained warrant or whether any judge signed off on it.

Well ... I don't think it's particularly "scary". It's not as if they came stomping in and hauled off the reporters, never to be seen again. In fact they're investigation was to try to stop that kind of thing. Overseas reporters go missing and get their heads chopped off by the very terrorists they're trying to stop, and the leak they were investigating puts that effort and other journalists at risk. It's not like I don't get what you're saying, but let's not forget who the bad guys are ... they're not the guys investigating this leak. So if they overstepped their bounds here a bit, it doesn't really bother me much ... unless like I said before, they were trying to cover-up their own indiscretions, which there seems to be no evidence of. So take a step back and try to be a little more dispassionate about it. You're having a knee-jerk reaction to a more complex issue.

 

[stonehart]

There is a legal way to do this. The government completely overstepped it's boundaries and
interfered with news agency's operations by obtaining information on its confidential sources. This is highly illegal and sets a really scary precedent. To top it all the government refuses to answer whether it had obtained warrant or whether any judge signed off on it.

"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized." George Orwell 1984

 

[truthseeker]

You're having a knee-jerk reaction to a more complex issue.

This is not a simple knee-jerk reaction. If this was the only thing that happened I would have dismissed it offhand. This administration has repeatedly shown blatant disregard for law and due process. We see it again and again. It is true that we don't have reporters getting dragged off never-to-be-seen again, yet. However, who's to say it's not going to happen a year or two from now. Here is what happened to a CBS news reporter who was asking Obama tough questions during the interview.

Shortly after I did my April 2012... - Larry Conners KMOV | Facebook

I don't care if you're a democrat or republican; no administration should be allowed to get away with this.

 

[Randall]

This is not a simple knee-jerk reaction. If this was the only thing that happened I would have dismissed it offhand. This administration has repeatedly shown blatant disregard for law and due process. We see it again and again. It is true that we don't have reporters getting dragged off never-to-be-seen again, yet. However, who's to say it's not going to happen a year or two from now. Here is what happened to a CBS news reporter who was asking Obama tough questions during the interview. I don't care if you're a democrat or republican; no administration should be allowed to get away with this.

I won't deny that there are problems ... serious problems ... and your reaction to this news item is a reflection of a more disturbing overall trend. So it's understandable. But at the same time we need to be clear on each issue and prioritize them accordingly. It's a real maze, but I think a lot of it could be cleaned up just by following the money trails and cleaning up the corruption and unethical behavior along the way. The problem with that plan is that money=power and most people are too disorganized or poor to launch any meaningful campaign, and anyone who does can expect some serious blowback. So what do you suggest that people do? Who will raise the ire of the phrama-induced psychologically apathetic enough to make a collective difference? And even if that happened, what more can they do besides simply complain and vote for the lesser evil? These are the tough questions. On the other hand, if tapping a few phones helps the good guys foil a terrorist plot ... well maybe they finally did something right by bending the rules.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Just to clarify: The Justice Department requested the AP phone logs, but did not actually wiretap anyone. They have this authority, of course, and the excuse is that there was an information leak that endangered American security, and it seems they expected those phone logs to reveal the name of a government mole who might have released such information.

What I hear is that this practice was technically legal, but the real way to stop it is to change the laws. Make it far more difficult to get approval to do such things. That is the only way to avoid abuse, and still accommodate legitimate requests.

And don't forget that, when the leaks were first reported, the Republicans were only too quick to demand that the DOJ address the issue. They did, and now they are getting slammed for it.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

To me this is a bit of an underwhelming headline. Why else would they be warehousing all this information if not to use it?

The cat got out of the bag the day that they made it possible to do something like this, not the day that they actually got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. I'd be shocked if this is the first time something like this has happened.

I understand and agree (to an extent) with the argument "if you're not doing anything wrong then there's nothing to worry about". I'm sorry, but the government doesn't really care too much about the shopping list your partner text'd you, nor do they care if you're running late for dinner. Hell, they don't care about your "sexts" either. What's a random naked body part when the internet is filled with it already?

That being said, they've taken every inch and turned it into a mile's worth of unchecked inroads to anyone's life they want. I'm with the tinfoil hats on this one - Big Brother is here, and has been here for a while now.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You want paranoia, watch the TV series, "Person of Interest," and see how much of what you see is real, or will be real soon.

 

[Randall]

You want paranoia, watch the TV series, "Person of Interest," and see how much of what you see is real, or will be real soon.

I've been following that show too. The stereotypes are irresistible. I think my favorite episode so far is the recent one where the machine has to reboot and phone for the admin to an old payphone. Now the characters are starting to unravel a bit ... the machine is getting it's own persona, and the relationship between the characters is developing ... I hope the trend continues.

The other new series we've been watching is Arrow ( not quite as stereotypical ). Arrow is more of an antihero. He's mortal, though tough, but still not unbeatable, and constantly torn by moral dilemmas for which either choice is less than ideal.

 

[storge]

Don't look behind the curtain, because the whole she-bang is illegal and unconstitutional and has been for some while.

 

[boomerang]

This instance is part of a larger trend ongoing since 9/11 in which governmental agencies are slowly but surely establishing a kind carte blanche to snoop in on anyone's personal or professional business without legal demonstration of underlying need in a given instance. Any and all surveillance activity can be ostensibly justified under the umbrella of thwarting unspecified threats to the state. And indeed, this is one of the hallmarks of the totalitarian regime.

To what extent does a smaller world with ever more permeable borders justify this kind of intrusion? And as always: who watches the watchers? Rules of the game and how it could potentially enslave us haven't changed since the founding of our republic. It's just that there are many more players. And they have ever more powerful moves at their disposal. This goes for both those who would protect us and those who would do us harm.