Hi Folks

[pduchesne]

In 1969 my dad was stationed at Fort Richardson Army Base, Alaska. There was a TV news story about a UFO that was spotted landing in the distance. Local investigators found the landing site and documented the marks in the ground from the landing gear and the burn on the ground from the UFO thrusters. I was seven years old and the story of aliens landing nearby excited me in ways I hadn’t experienced before. The Army and Air Force both claimed they had no knowledge of any activities in the area. That weekend, my dad returned from a joint army/marines training mission where he interacted with the “UFO”. It was a Harrier jet. Dad and his pals watched the news about the UFO landing and laughed at how stupid people were. That UFO didn’t turn out to be alien, but I was hooked on the feeling I had when I thought it was. My obsession with the paranormal, along with a healthy skepticism was thusly born.
Later, I was an Air Force electronics technician at a research base in Massachusetts. I worked with a lieutenant who was doing his own UFO research. He had found some old antigravity patents and I made a working model of one. It kind of worked.
I also worked on a project which took me to Wright Patterson AFB where I looked for hanger 18 because I was into the Roswell thing at the time. I found it. The doors were open for all to see, but that was 1983 so they probably moved the aliens by then. Or maybe they changed the numbers around to throw me off the trail.
Okay, I confess to wanting it all to be true: Bigfoot, UFOs, Nessie, crop circles, ghosts, cattle mutilation, telekinesis, you name it. But I am also a skeptic and have not yet been convinced of any of these things. I listen to The Paracast, other similar shows, and watch many of those ridiculous reality shows, ever hopeful of finding that irrefutable evidence that proves there is something “out there”.

 

[Burnt State]

Well this is all just wildly intriguing what you are presenting as a story from childhood curiosity all the way to the legendary scene of the definitie UFO 'crime'. So what kind of 'research' do you do now?

 

[pduchesne]

Well this is all just wildly intriguing what you are presenting as a story from childhood curiosity all the way to the legendary scene of the definitie UFO 'crime'. So what kind of 'research' do you do now?

Yeah, I guess my intro was a bit too long. The radio show seemed to place so much emphasis on research and evidence that I thought I might be among kindred spirits here at the forum, so I wanted people to know my perspective from the start. I have since changed my mind. My intro should have said something like "hey folks, UFOs are cool!".

To answer your question though, I stopped on-site investigations about 20 years ago. The problem is that most paranormal incidents are almost entirely made up by someone writing a book. Case in point would be the Pine Bush incident. Like a lot of people, I was moved by Silent Invasion, by "Dr." Ellen Crystal. Pine Bush NY was only few hours from where I was living in New Hampshire, so I went there for a week to investigate. There were kooks and potheads everywhere. Airplanes, Venus, and even the lights from a radio tower were all UFOs to these people. Some of them would have psychic experiences and feel the aliens communicating with them. When I pointed out to one of them that the alien ship he was communicating with was actually the planet Venus, I was accused of working for the government. Well, I do work for the government, but I can assure you I am not part of any coverups. I wrote a letter to Ellen Crystal telling her of my experience with the hippies and asking where I should go to see the real deal. I was also a technician with experience designing circuits and collecting data for scientists and engineers so I offered my services for free. A few weeks later I received a one page flyer selling t-shirts with big-eyed aliens on them.

I have also worked on several so called black projects and could offer insight on some of the black triangle sightings people have had. Unfortunately, while interesting from a technology perspective, there is nothing alien about them. At least not the one I had experience with.

I originally joined this forum because, though I don't have any evidence to prove paranormal activity, I have had experience disproving some. I am not a dogmatic debunker, but I think that the quicker we dispatch the nonsense, the quicker we can get to the "real" mysteries, some of which I would like to see resolved before I die. But despite claims to the opposite, there are "sacred cows" here, and people really don't want to hear things that conflict with their belief systems.

 

[Burnt State]

Oh, I don't know, there's always a sacred cow someone's trying to sacrifice out here every other week. Lance Moody is a good example of promoting such exercises such as his recent post regarding the anomalist on a fool's errand where the opening article by Bullard slays no less than three sacred cows of ufology. More people should be responding to this.

There is also a wide belief spectrum out here regarding the posters and anyone who has been around long enough seems to be oriented more firmly around skeptical considerations and/or open to discussing multiple viewpoints in pursuit of possibilities. There are also people who believe that we already have pics, and even video of living aliens oing about their business on their ships. So i wouldn't hold back too much as it's in the discussion that the cream rises.

 

[smcder]

Oh, I don't know, there's always a sacred cow someone's trying to sacrifice out here every other week. Lance Moody is a good example of promoting such exercises such as his recent post regarding the anomalist on a fool's errand where the opening article by Bullard slays no less than three sacred cows of ufology. More people should be responding to this.

There is also a wide belief spectrum out here regarding the posters and anyone who has been around long enough seems to be oriented more firmly around skeptical considerations and/or open to discussing multiple viewpoints in pursuit of possibilities. There are also people who believe that we already have pics, and even video of living aliens oing about their business on their ships. So i wouldn't hold back too much as it's in the discussion that the cream rises.

anyone who has been around long enough seems to be oriented more firmly around skeptical considerations and/or open to discussing multiple viewpoints in pursuit of possibilities.

To clarify - are you saying it seems that those who have been on the forum long term tend to either be skeptics or open-minded? But it also seems you are saying there are true believers?

I haven't been on long - but the frequent posters or long-term folks I've seen tend to be skeptical or kind of resigned/even burnt-out . . . I have a question out to Lance as to what keeps him coming back for more - I noted that the most interesting (to me) long-timers were the skeptics and those who had never had a paranormal experience, why do these two groups not only endure but sometimes are the most active and motivated?

As to this forum, how much of who survives long term is an effect of the forum culture? (is there a forum culture?) - the demographics (I'm guessing mostly older white males and a substantial conservative contingent) from what I have seen (again I'm new) the more prominent voices seem to be skeptical and aren't above ridicule and ridicule is of particular interest to me as I become more aware of how it is used in our society at large . . . taken from the right vantage and with enough skill, it seems that most any position can be ridiculed.

 

[Burnt State]

anyone who has been around long enough seems to be oriented more firmly around skeptical considerations and/or open to discussing multiple viewpoints in pursuit of possibilities.

To clarify - are you saying it seems that those who have been on the forum long term tend to either be skeptics or open-minded? But it also seems you are saying there are true believers?

I haven't been on long - but the frequent posters or long-term folks I've seen tend to be skeptical or kind of resigned/even burnt-out . . . I have a question out to Lance as to what keeps him coming back for more - I noted that the most interesting (to me) long-timers were the skeptics and those who had never had a paranormal experience, why do these two groups not only endure but sometimes are the most active and motivated?

As to this forum, how much of who survives long term is an effect of the forum culture? (is there a forum culture?) - the demographics (I'm guessing mostly older white males and a substantial conservative contingent) from what I have seen (again I'm new) the more prominent voices seem to be skeptical and aren't above ridicule and ridicule is of particular interest to me as I become more aware of how it is used in our society at large . . . taken from the right vantage and with enough skill, it seems that most any position can be ridiculed.

For clarity, I definitely recognize that there are some posters here willing to believe in things I won't even start to entertain, and perhaps it's simply the longtime posters that I follow and pay attention to, but they're a skeptical bunch. And yes, some are surly & sardonic with their quips having been burned by the immense lack of any progress whatsoever in the "fields of weirdness."

So why come back? Perhaps hope never dies, or like the wise sage around the campfire, we need them to piss on our false spurts and starts in the wrong direction, as they've been to the mountain already and no one is there. Creative thought also appears to sustain.

I'm also interested in the forum culture as well, but then I'm fascinated with all kinds of human systems and congregations, how they work and the role of diversity and equity within such systems. I think that it's interesting to see who has been around for years and years and what they have to offer, once you get past their disenchantment and burnout. Some voices are just extremely funny and very smart.

I'm trying to move away from ridiculing people and focus more on poking at ideas. But you are right, the default is often to attack through ridicule, or to belittle, but that demonstrates no wit and is a rather facile approach in an environment like this. Why do those folk keep coming back? Maybe it's fun to look down on people as you loosen your bowels? Either way I sense this response devolving back into Barker's poem regarding how UFO's are full of shit. A good time to say, adieu.

 

[Tony B.]

I originally joined this forum because, though I don't have any evidence to prove paranormal activity, I have had experience disproving some. I am not a dogmatic debunker, but I think that the quicker we dispatch the nonsense, the quicker we can get to the "real" mysteries, some of which I would like to see resolved before I die.

We'll get on fairly well together.

One of the things I do a lot of, is to correct people who make sighting reports to MUFON (the ones which get assigned to me, at any rate) and talk about the "craft" or "ship". I remind them that we don't a priori assume it's an alien spaceship - and I am always VERY careful to refer to the "object", until a reasonable preponderance of evidence exists to say otherwise.

It's been my experience that 70%-plus of sightings DO have an IFO explanation. It's really weird how we can 'mis-perceive' everyday things!