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This is not the argument. Yes, there has always been climate change - that is not the issue - and has not been the debating point. The argument is that this time around, the evidence is that humans are contributing to the Global Warming - that humanity's activities have started the Global Warming snowball rolling this time around for the first time in the earth's history of climate change. This has been addressed in the course of the thread. The evidence is persuasive that humanity's activity has been the impetus for starting up what is a climate change before it's time sequence. (The warmings have a natural rhythm in a geological sense - and the current events are 'before time', happening before expected to occur).

As for this other point - that humanity is being egotistical, thinking it is impacting something it is 'contained' by - it is well known and observed that living beings do in fact change the environment they are 'contained by' all the time. Humans have done it routinely across the centuries wherever they live - even at the simple level of nomadic tribesman. We are human so we are able to observe and reflect on our impact - this is of course unique among the animal world. However, animals effect changes - as do plants - though they are unable to articulate anything because they do not self-consciously observe themselves. But living beings do effect change - even though they are 'contained' by what they change (nature).

<blockquote data-quote="Tyger" data-source="post: 194597" data-attributes="member: 6534">This is not the argument. Yes, there has always been climate change - that is not the issue - and has not been the debating point.&nbsp; The argument is that this time around, the evidence is that humans are contributing to the Global Warming - that humanity&#039;s activities have started the Global Warming snowball rolling this time around for the first time in the earth&#039;s&nbsp; history of climate change. This has been addressed in the course of the thread. The evidence is persuasive that humanity&#039;s activity has been the impetus for starting up what is a climate change before it&#039;s time sequence. (The warmings have a natural rhythm in a geological sense - and the current events are &#039;before time&#039;, happening before expected to occur).As for this other point - that humanity is being egotistical, thinking it is impacting something it is &#039;contained&#039; by - it is well known and observed that living beings do in fact change the environment they are &#039;contained by&#039; all the time. Humans have done it routinely across the centuries wherever they live - even at the simple level of nomadic tribesman. We are human so we are able to observe and reflect on our impact - this is of course unique among the animal world. However, animals effect changes - as do plants - though they are unable to articulate anything because they do not self-consciously observe themselves. But living beings do effect change - even though they are &#039;contained&#039; by what they change (nature).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tyger, post: 194597, member: 6534"] This is not the argument. Yes, there has always been climate change - that is not the issue - and has not been the debating point. The argument is that [B]this time around,[/B] the [B]evidence is that humans are contributing to the Global Warming [/B]- that [B]humanity's activities have started the Global Warming snowball rolling this time around for the first time in the earth's history of climate change[/B]. This has been addressed in the course of the thread. The evidence is persuasive that humanity's activity has been the impetus for starting up what is [U][B]a climate change before it's time sequence.[/B][/U] (The warmings have a natural rhythm in a geological sense - and the current events are 'before time', happening before expected to occur). As for this other point - that humanity is being egotistical, thinking it is impacting something it is 'contained' by - it is well known and observed that[B] living beings do in fact change the environment they are 'contained by' all the time.[/B] Humans have done it routinely across the centuries wherever they live - even at the simple level of nomadic tribesman. We are human so we are able to observe and reflect on our impact - this is of course unique among the animal world. However, animals effect changes - as do plants - though they are unable to articulate anything because they do not self-consciously observe themselves. But living beings do effect change - even though they are 'contained' by what they change (nature). [/QUOTE]

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