How would you describe "them" to an Alien?

[Han]

A useful thought experiment that I employ when trying to understand new ideas, is to imagine trying to explain the concept that I am trying to comprehend, to "some one from outer space" (who has no preexisting bias or knowledge) and would not be able to understand similes.
Using this model how would you describe for example money?
The problem I encounter is that I feel like I am so used to using similes that they are automatic, and this makes me wonder to what degree a persons "go to examples" affect what conclusion they come to? and how much "choice" do we have in these reference points?
I do not think that I can be unique in attempting to use my belief to my own advantage, a bit like where we chose to spend our money (dam you similes!) I am asking this question because I am confused by the fact that the "internet" has potential for furthering an individuals knowledge and in turn societies too, but yet it has in my opinion done a great deal of harm, and undone a lot of hard work. Who is responsible? the only answer I have is "them" or "they" but there is no "them" without "us".

 

[Randall]

A useful thought experiment that I employ when trying to understand new ideas, is to imagine trying to explain the concept that I am trying to comprehend, to "some one from outer space" (who has no preexisting bias or knowledge) and would not be able to understand similes.
Using this model how would you describe for example money?
The problem I encounter is that I feel like I am so used to using similes that they are automatic, and this makes me wonder to what degree a persons "go to examples" affect what conclusion they come to? and how much "choice" do we have in these reference points?
I do not think that I can be unique in attempting to use my belief to my own advantage, a bit like where we chose to spend our money (dam you similes!) I am asking this question because I am confused by the fact that the "internet" has potential for furthering an individuals knowledge and in turn societies too, but yet it has in my opinion done a great deal of harm, and undone a lot of hard work. Who is responsible? the only answer I have is "them" or "they" but there is no "them" without "us".

This is an interesting idea
and one that the late Carl Sagan spent considerable time contemplating.
Here's a brief Review - The Voyager Spacecraft​

 

[Han]

Dear Ufology thank you very much, that was fascinating.
I don't know how but you answered a question I did not realise I had asked!
I was going to delete this thread because on reflection it seemed jumbled and unclear, I am very glad that I did not because after watching the video, I have a little more "faith" in humanity, due to my suprise at the items sent out in to space, I had a vague idea of the phonograph record, but had no idea about the other items.
thanks again, best wishes.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

This is an interesting idea
and one that the late Carl Sagan spent considerable time contemplating.
Here's a brief Review - The Voyager Spacecraft​

This video was astounding, ufology. I was literally captivated through the whole thing. Thank you very much for sharing!

J.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

More from Sagan and his opinion's on UFO's, taken in 1966. Pretty well-grounded if you ask me.

 

[Randall]

More from Sagan and his opinion's on UFO's, taken in 1966. Pretty well-grounded if you ask me ...

Like I always say, Sagan was a very interesting figure in ufology history, and he was not as anti-ufology as the skeptics like to claim. To get the real meaning of what Sagan was saying, you need learn how to read between the lines. To do this requires two main things. The first is an understanding of Sagan's role in ufology during the Early Modern Era. There was a hidden political backroom influence on Sagan that meant he was obligated to downplay the idea of alien visitation and be very careful about what he said, or find himself excommunicated from his life's work, if not found guilty of breaching the oaths he took to get his military security clearance. This is fact, not conspiracy, not fiction.

1:15 | Cronkite Introduces Thornton Page, an astronomer on a CIA Committee that investigated UFO reports in 1952. That panel was the notorious Robertson Panel. Eventually the Robertson Panel report was declassified and during December of 1974 was released to the public. In this 1966 interview we have Sagan seated right next to this CIA insider, and it's recommendations can be seen playing out here exactly as they were designed.

The second is not to take what Sagan says in a piecemeal fashion at face value. In other words, because of the above, there is what Sagan was expected to say ( and not to say ), and then there's what he says a scientist. The trick is to see the juxtaposition and then realize that Sagan was a brilliant man who didn't simply ramble off seeming contradictions for no reason. He must have known that in time, anyone with reasonably sharp analytical skills could see what he was doing. So let's examine the video a little more closely and I'll show you how this works:

1:54 | Sagan provides the obligatory official denial as is his duty: "There's not a single verified or checked out report which is at all connected with the possibility of extraterrestrial life."

Notice the expression on Sagan's face just before he starts. He chooses those words carefully and with some displeasure. He had to know that any rational person would realize that what he had to say made no sense. Why? Because we know that one of the main points of contention with the ranks of officialdom was the possibility that UFOs represent extraterrestrial visitation, and therefore every report, checked out or not, was connected with the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

We also know that one official investigation had resulted in an evaluation known as The Estimate of the Situation that concluded that UFOs were probably extraterrestrial. We also know that Sagan himself had knowledge of some UFO reports that simply had no adequate terrestrial explanation. We also know that Sagan recommended scientific study of UFOs. So this is obviously an example of the kinds of statement Sagan was obliged to make as part of official policy. Now let's move along to his next statement. Notice how his mood and expression also suddenly lightens. To me it's obviously because he's now able to set the deception aside and tell the truth:

2:05 | Sagan explains why it's reasonable to assume advanced ET life exists: "That doesn't say that extraterrestrial life is impossible. Quite the contrary. I think that many of the stars in the sky have planetary systems. We know enough now about the origin of life now to make it appear likely that life arises naturally on the vast bulk of these planets. It's possible but by no means certain that life on many of these planets evolves into beings which are as advanced as we, or more advanced, and I don't see any reason why we can't imagine that there are civilizations that are thousands or millions of years in advance of ourselves capable of technical feats that we can hardly imagine."

Above, Sagan is all but telling us that ET exists and could have technology "we can hardly imagine" that could get them here. But it doesn't end there. Suddenly the scene is cut, and he returns to a skeptical tone. Again, let's have a closer look at what he's really saying:

2:43 | Sagan says it's reasonable to believe alien visitation is rare: "If you would believe as the flying saucer cultists would have us believe, that the majority of the saucer reports are due to visitations, we have a very strange situation. That means several spaceships are coming to the Earth over interstellar distances every day, as if all the anthropologists in the world were to converge on one of the Andaman islands in the Indian Ocean because they just invented the fish net there or something. I think it's much more reasonable if you want to speculate on the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence, that there are very rare visits of extraterrestrials to the Earth."

Above Sagan is again virtually telling us that although the fringe crowd is heavily exaggerating the situation, it's reasonable to speculate that "there are very rare visits of extraterrestrials to the Earth."

3:23 | Sagan continues: "There's no evidence for this. I just say that it's not implausible. But that several visits a day is straining credulity."

Reading between the lines, Sagan is once again doing the obligatory, "there's no evidence" routine. So basically whenever Sagan says there's no evidence, he's actually saying that there is evidence but he can't talk about it, and this is your queue to go read and find out about it for yourself. He also says alien visitation is plausible. The scene is then cut again and Sagan comes back to talk about contactees, which isn't relevant to whether or not alien visitation is true, but he wraps it up with this comment:

5:10 | Sagan tells us which reports are unlikely to be true: "I would think that at least for the contact myths and probably a lot of the events where people just see things they don't understand flying overhead, that what's involved is psychology and theology and not so much the physical sciences."

Reading between the lines above we hear Sagan tell us which reports to avoid, and the message between the lines is, "Go look at the other reports". Specifically "a lot of the events" don't mean "all of the events". He left out the solid reports involving military pilots, radar operators, and people who observed something well enough to know it wasn't simply some vague thing flying overhead. Again, we know he was aware of such sightings, and we know policy did not allow for him to talk about those sightings, so naturally we see them missing from the talk.

To summarize, when we learn to read between the lines with Sagan, it is clear that he was really saying, "Officially they don't exist, but there is every reason that they probably do, but I can't talk about those cases."

Related Item of Interest: A response to the Condon Report by Thornton Page: Dr. Thornton Page's Review of the Condon Report

The UFO skeptics are of course immediately dismissive of this ( because most UFO skeptics are actually UFO deniers and not skeptics at all ). However for those who are open minded enough to take this seriously and learn how to read between the lines with Sagan, you'll see a whole new dimension to this legendary figure. Bear in mind while watching this video, that during his college days, Sagan defended the idea of UFOs as alien visitors. However his heartfelt passion for the subject became buried beneath the façade of official denial and academic politics. To read between the lines just remember Sagan's pattern. Time and time again he reluctantly does his duty to downplay alien visitation, followed by passionately advocating the idea that intelligent extraterrestrial life exists, and to look skeptically at the reports. When we do, we find enough good reports to conclude that alien visitation is a reasonable explanation for some sightings.

Search Keywords: Sagan Quotes​

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Ufology......you really need a day job, man. LOL!!

 

[Randall]

Ufology......you really need a day job, man. LOL!!

Bah! Day jobs ... I don't plan on doing that again for as long as possible . It would be nice to get paid for writing though. In the meantime, enjoy the free content .