If Alien Life Is Visiting Earth What Could Be Their Reasons For Not Making Contact?

[Trevor Wozny]

People frequently underestimate just how much more advanced space-faring aliens might be. I would posit that there are races out there so much more advanced than us that we would be unable to recognize the evidence of their existence, and such evidence would instead appear to us as aspects of the nature of reality itself.

The universe is old enough that aliens might have a multi-billion year head start

The universe is 14 billion years old. There is a debate about how recently enough heavy elements were fused to permit the formation of rocky planets harboring the elements required for life as we know it. Some believe that rocky planets with the ingredients for life could have formed as early as 12 billion years ago, but let's take a conservative figure of 8 billion years ago.

So planets capable of supporting life existed in the universe 8 billion years ago. Our planet formed 4.6 billion years ago. It took another billion years for the surface to cool and for conditions supporting life to arise. Almost immediately upon the conditions becoming suitable, life arose on our planet 3.6 billion years ago.

Assuming things work roughly the same way on other planets as they have here on Earth, we can reasonably conclude that there are life-harboring planets out there with a 3.4 billion year head start. This means there are planets out there with a head start almost equal to (and perhaps greater than) the entire time life has existed on Earth.

In billions of years, life has evolved such that primitive life forms are incapable of comprehending more advanced ones

Now consider how different humans are from the first life forms to arise on our planet. Assuming the rate of evolutionary change remains constant, the life forms on a planet with a 3.4 billion year head start would be about as different from our level of complexity as we are from the simplest bacteria.

Bacteria are entirely incapable of comprehending us. In fact, they are not capable of being aware of us at all. They inhabit the same space we do, even living inside our bodies as symbionts, but they are entirely incapable of being aware of us. Consider ants, which are far more complex than bacteria and are separated from us by only 500 million years of evolutionary development. They too inhabit the same space. They can be affected by our actions. They can see us, eat the food we drop on the ground, crawl all over our picnic tables, but they aren't really aware of us. They are entirely incapable of understanding any message we might try to send to them. We have come to understand the chemical signals ants use to communicate with each other, and we can lay down trails for them to follow etc., so basically we humans are able to speak an ant's language, but still we cannot convey to them any concept of what we are because ants lack the brains to comprehend what we are.

So, assuming the pace of evolutionary development is roughly constant, aliens out there would likely be so much more advanced that we would be incapable of comprehending them even if we were living right in front of them on their picnic table. They could even learn to speak our language, as we have with ants, and it wouldn't do much good. That in itself could explain why it seems that no alien intelligence has contacted is. But really, the difference is even more extreme than the rate biological evolutionary development would suggest.

With the advent of technology, the rate of development has increased enormously, such that the complexity gap will be even bigger over the coming few billion years

About 40,000 years ago, humans began to develop technology. Unlike evolutionary development, which advances by a process of random mutation, technological development advances through directed and systematic procedures. As a result, the pace of development has accelerated enormously.

Most people are probably familiar with cargo cults. For those who are not: cargo cults exist on some remote islands in the pacific. During WW2, the American and Japanese militaries established bases on some remote islands that had little to no previous contact with developed civilizations. When the war ended, the bases were abandoned. The natives on the islands had seen technologies that they did not understand. The lights and flying machines appeared to them as magic. Now, some of the people on these islands have adopted rituals that mimic the movements of air traffic controllers and radio operators, hoping that they can call down cargo from the sky.

These people are separated from us by only 8,000 years of development (the time it took from the establishment of the first agricultural civilizations until the present day) and yet they couldn't understand what they saw, and they worship our technology in a religious manner.

8,000 years is far less than an eye-blink on the billions-of-years timescale of the head start that some planets had on ours. It took 8,000 years for us to appear as gods to other humans – how much longer would it take before we would recede from their ability to understand altogether? Maybe 10x that amount of time? But consider also that the rate at which technology is developing is increasing exponentially. Most of the developments that separate us from hunter-gatherers were made in the last 200 years.

So, with technological development beginning 3.4 billion years ahead of ours, the gap between us and an alien race would not be just the gap between bacteria and us, but conceivably exponentially greater.

Now consider again the ants. They can't conceive of what we are. All they know are that there are lots of crumbs that tend to show up in a certain area near their anthill. For the ants, this is just a fact of life--"there are lots of crumbs over there usually" is just part of the nature of reality as they perceive it. Similarly, the evidence of alien life is probably all around us, but they are so much more advanced than we are, that the evidence of their existence appears to simply be woven into the nature of reality as we perceive it.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

What science tools do we have that shows evidence of "unknowns' have been here?

No doubt the space race is on and which nations going to get to the Moon again sooner than later will they show everything as some suggest ?

China to Carry Out Some 30 Space Launches in 2017


Russia to send 12 cosmonauts to the Moon ahead of creating a permanent base | Daily Mail Online

Will Putin release scientific evidence of the recent space exploration of Venus ? and will the West actually believe them if they found anything ?

Carolyn Porco: Could a Saturn moon harbor life? | TED Talk | TED.com

Will China release other Moon images taken during its fly over? and will the West actually believe them or suggest they are manipulated due to photoshop ?
中国航天 (@China_Space) | Twitter

Jill Tarter: Join the SETI search | TED Talk | TED.com

Will United Nations s release scientific evidence and will the World's population actually believe them if ever announced ?

Looking for aliens? Forgot the telescope, just use data

Penelope Boston: There might just be life on Mars | TED Talk | TED.com

Will the Pope ever release scientific evidence we are not alone from their own vaults of historical data of spiritual encounters of unknowns ?

Do aliens exist? Pope Francis tackles this (and other things) in new interview

Freeman Dyson: Let's look for life in the outer solar system | TED Talk | TED.com

Eyewitness statements seem to suggest (not the hypothetical dummy crap) we are not alone in this universe when will the corporations of the defence groups of the World share all their secrets of every nation? Do our top scientist actually see all the restricted documents our World leaders are privy to see?

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Ama

People frequently underestimate just how much more advanced space-faring aliens might be. I would posit that there are races out there so much more advanced than us that we would be unable to recognize the evidence of their existence, and such evidence would instead appear to us as aspects of the nature of reality itself.

The universe is old enough that aliens might have a multi-billion year head start

The universe is 14 billion years old. There is a debate about how recently enough heavy elements were fused to permit the formation of rocky planets harboring the elements required for life as we know it. Some believe that rocky planets with the ingredients for life could have formed as early as 12 billion years ago, but let's take a conservative figure of 8 billion years ago.

So planets capable of supporting life existed in the universe 8 billion years ago. Our planet formed 4.6 billion years ago. It took another billion years for the surface to cool and for conditions supporting life to arise. Almost immediately upon the conditions becoming suitable, life arose on our planet 3.6 billion years ago.

Assuming things work roughly the same way on other planets as they have here on Earth, we can reasonably conclude that there are life-harboring planets out there with a 3.4 billion year head start. This means there are planets out there with a head start almost equal to (and perhaps greater than) the entire time life has existed on Earth.

In billions of years, life has evolved such that primitive life forms are incapable of comprehending more advanced ones

Now consider how different humans are from the first life forms to arise on our planet. Assuming the rate of evolutionary change remains constant, the life forms on a planet with a 3.4 billion year head start would be about as different from our level of complexity as we are from the simplest bacteria.

Bacteria are entirely incapable of comprehending us. In fact, they are not capable of being aware of us at all. They inhabit the same space we do, even living inside our bodies as symbionts, but they are entirely incapable of being aware of us. Consider ants, which are far more complex than bacteria and are separated from us by only 500 million years of evolutionary development. They too inhabit the same space. They can be affected by our actions. They can see us, eat the food we drop on the ground, crawl all over our picnic tables, but they aren't really aware of us. They are entirely incapable of understanding any message we might try to send to them. We have come to understand the chemical signals ants use to communicate with each other, and we can lay down trails for them to follow etc., so basically we humans are able to speak an ant's language, but still we cannot convey to them any concept of what we are because ants lack the brains to comprehend what we are.

So, assuming the pace of evolutionary development is roughly constant, aliens out there would likely be so much more advanced that we would be incapable of comprehending them even if we were living right in front of them on their picnic table. They could even learn to speak our language, as we have with ants, and it wouldn't do much good. That in itself could explain why it seems that no alien intelligence has contacted is. But really, the difference is even more extreme than the rate biological evolutionary development would suggest.

With the advent of technology, the rate of development has increased enormously, such that the complexity gap will be even bigger over the coming few billion years

About 40,000 years ago, humans began to develop technology. Unlike evolutionary development, which advances by a process of random mutation, technological development advances through directed and systematic procedures. As a result, the pace of development has accelerated enormously.

Most people are probably familiar with cargo cults. For those who are not: cargo cults exist on some remote islands in the pacific. During WW2, the American and Japanese militaries established bases on some remote islands that had little to no previous contact with developed civilizations. When the war ended, the bases were abandoned. The natives on the islands had seen technologies that they did not understand. The lights and flying machines appeared to them as magic. Now, some of the people on these islands have adopted rituals that mimic the movements of air traffic controllers and radio operators, hoping that they can call down cargo from the sky.

These people are separated from us by only 8,000 years of development (the time it took from the establishment of the first agricultural civilizations until the present day) and yet they couldn't understand what they saw, and they worship our technology in a religious manner.

8,000 years is far less than an eye-blink on the billions-of-years timescale of the head start that some planets had on ours. It took 8,000 years for us to appear as gods to other humans – how much longer would it take before we would recede from their ability to understand altogether? Maybe 10x that amount of time? But consider also that the rate at which technology is developing is increasing exponentially. Most of the developments that separate us from hunter-gatherers were made in the last 200 years.

So, with technological development beginning 3.4 billion years ahead of ours, the gap between us and an alien race would not be just the gap between bacteria and us, but conceivably exponentially greater.

Now consider again the ants. They can't conceive of what we are. All they know are that there are lots of crumbs that tend to show up in a certain area near their anthill. For the ants, this is just a fact of life--"there are lots of crumbs over there usually" is just part of the nature of reality as they perceive it. Similarly, the evidence of alien life is probably all around us, but they are so much more advanced than we are, that the evidence of their existence appears to simply be woven into the nature of reality as we perceive it.

Congratulations on a well written piece of insight and logic. You just justified my membership.

This is why when I hear Stanton talking about Roswell spaceships getting confused by radar emissions and crashing I can't put my head in my hands fast enough.

That was the ufology thinking of the past, this is the ufology thinking of the future

 

[Trajanus]

Assuming things work roughly the same way on other planets as they have here on Earth, we can reasonably conclude that there are life-harboring planets out there with a 3.4 billion year head start. This means there are planets out there with a head start almost equal to (and perhaps greater than) the entire time life has existed on Earth.

Interesting point.

Now consider how different humans are from the first life forms to arise on our planet. Assuming the rate of evolutionary change remains constant, the life forms on a planet with a 3.4 billion year head start would be about as different from our level of complexity as we are from the simplest bacteria.
With the advent of technology, the rate of development has increased enormously, such that the complexity gap will be even bigger over the coming few billion years

Well I dunnoo...assuming limits to the complexity of matter or the Universe, progress may reach an asymptotic limit, as some have suggested.

 

[Burnt State]

If language is species specific then communications with any alien race is probably impossible despite what the film Arrival posits. Language evolves on this planet and its reference points are about life here on earth. Languages and modes of commnication evolving on other planets will only make sense to those from that planet. If we were to ever make contact with an alien species the communication barrier would be enormous. So whether or not they are incredibly advanced or not makes no never mind imho.

We will never be able to find a common frame of reference. And when you start thinking along these lines the whole contactee telepathic communication experience has no real validity. These are most likely internal experiences and nothing more. Cases where abductees/witnesses actually hear strange unintelligible sounds coming from aliens or, without any telepathic communication about how this is for the good of the planet yadda yadda, are the most interesting ones to explore. The rest is probably just stuff getting mase up inside people's heads.

 

[technomage]

If language is species specific then communications with any alien race is probably impossible despite what the film Arrival posits. Language evolves on this planet and its reference points are about life here on earth. Languages and modes of commnication evolving on other planets will only make sense to those from that planet. If we were to ever make contact with an alien species the communication barrier would be enormous. So whether or not they are incredibly advanced or not makes no never mind imho.

We will never be able to find a common frame of reference. And when you start thinking along these lines the whole contactee telepathic communication experience has no real validity. These are most likely internal experiences and nothing more. Cases where abductees/witnesses actually hear strange unintelligible sounds coming from aliens or, without any telepathic communication about how this is for the good of the planet yadda yadda, are the most interesting ones to explore. The rest is probably just stuff getting mase up inside people's heads.

There are a lot of things in common: The stars, planets, laws of physics, mathematics. But I can see your point about more complex concepts like justice and emotions, which may be species specific. But I still think you can communicate on very simple terms. I think concepts related to survival also could be communicated: eating (in whatever form), breathing and various actions like moving; even concepts like sleep could eventually be communicated, I think. But obviously you need to start with the basics an it may take years to get much further than that.

 

[Burnt State]

There are a lot of things in common: The stars, planets, laws of physics, mathematics. But I can see your point about more complex concepts like justice and emotions, which may be species specific. But I still think you can communicate on very simple terms. I think concepts related to survival also could be communicated: eating (in whatever form), breathing and various actions like moving; even concepts like sleep could eventually be communicated, I think. But obviously you need to start with the basics an it may take years to get much further than that.

Well I'm just riffing off some recent pieces I've read around the absolute impossibility of being able to exchange language with any intelligence from another planet as their linguistic constructs would be specific to their own planet and their lifeform. While we have this fantasy that somehow mathematics and physics will be these easy standards for dialogue exchange that's really a rather anthropocentric view, that the way we use math or eat and represent such things would easily translate. But I think that might just be Hollywood scifi plot devices as opposed to how real life might work. If there are in fact alien life forms visiting us then it's not a wonder that there's no communication exchanges taking place as our modalities for how we experience reality remains tied to the planet that reality is experienced and the nature of evolution on that planet. We really would have absolutely nothing in common at all with each other. It really would be like ants and humans trying to create a fruitful exchange with each other. There's just simply no basis for it.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the thing we call the UFO is really just a cultural construct and probably has nothing whatsoever to do with our own concepts of alien visitors. It's probably something far stranger than what we think it is. The UFO wears the clothes of spaceships from beyond because that's what makes sense to the human mind. But I bet it's much weirder than that and certainly has nothing so simplistic attached to it as aliens making crop circles to communicate with us.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the thing we call the UFO is really just a cultural construct and probably has nothing whatsoever to do with our own concepts of alien visitors. It's probably something far stranger than what we think it is. The UFO wears the clothes of spaceships from beyond because that's what makes sense to the human mind. But I bet it's much weirder than that and certainly has nothing so simplistic attached to it as aliens making crop circles to communicate with us.

I can go with that.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Interesting theory which is plausible in this crazy world of egos, genuine researchers and snake oil sales folks. Always found late Dr Ivan Sanderson as genuine researcher and liked his great work on USO.

Moreover, the falling object over the southern hemisphere last week is very interesting and the current amount of work going into research around the region. Flashbacks to the Canadian "Shag Harbour Incident" and the current underwater exploration ongoing under the Antarctic. Very plausible the new life-forms and its relations to off World discoveries in the following years will have similar relationship to Earth's underwater discoveries. Not forgetting the space race to Pluto and back to the Moon. Did Bob Lazar work in any deep ocean research facilities prior to his work at other facilities ?

UFO Report

 

[technomage]

Well I'm just riffing off some recent pieces I've read around the absolute impossibility of being able to exchange language with any intelligence from another planet as their linguistic constructs would be specific to their own planet and their lifeform. While we have this fantasy that somehow mathematics and physics will be these easy standards for dialogue exchange that's really a rather anthropocentric view, that the way we use math or eat and represent such things would easily translate. But I think that might just be Hollywood scifi plot devices as opposed to how real life might work. If there are in fact alien life forms visiting us then it's not a wonder that there's no communication exchanges taking place as our modalities for how we experience reality remains tied to the planet that reality is experienced and the nature of evolution on that planet. We really would have absolutely nothing in common at all with each other. It really would be like ants and humans trying to create a fruitful exchange with each other. There's just simply no basis for it.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the thing we call the UFO is really just a cultural construct and probably has nothing whatsoever to do with our own concepts of alien visitors. It's probably something far stranger than what we think it is. The UFO wears the clothes of spaceships from beyond because that's what makes sense to the human mind. But I bet it's much weirder than that and certainly has nothing so simplistic attached to it as aliens making crop circles to communicate with us.

I don't think ants communicating with humans is a good comparison. Ants can't form concepts that shrink concrete entities into a compact form making it possible to understand the universe. If aliens can form concepts and since we know we can form concepts, we would have much more in common with them than we do with ants. I'm not saying it would be easy, but I reject the notion that it would be impossible, as we all live in the same universe with the same physical laws. Now if we're talking about beings from another universe with different physical laws, then you may be onto something...

 

[Trajanus]

If there are in fact alien life forms visiting us then it's not a wonder that there's no communication exchanges taking place

To automatically dismiss contactee communication and assume only unintelligible sounds can be real is to underestimate what an advanced system can do. I'd take a lot of what UFO entities say with a grain of salt, but that's beside the point. ET languages may be very different but it wouldn't be surprising if a far advanced species has deciphered ours.

as our modalities for how we experience reality remains tied to the planet that reality is experienced and the nature of evolution on that planet. We really would have absolutely nothing in common at all with each other.

Frankly I think that's absurd. The lesson of our solar system is that Earthlike conditions are a prerequisite for life, or advanced life. Since the conditions under which ETs evolved are likely to have been very similar, essentially the same evolutionary--including cultural evolutionary--outcome seems reasonable. Very likely, we have a great deal in common with ETs.

It really would be like ants and humans trying to create a fruitful exchange with each other. There's just simply no basis for it.

Unlike ants I think we have the same longterm potential, or inherent brainpower so the comparison is invalid.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the thing we call the UFO is really just a cultural construct and probably has nothing whatsoever to do with our own concepts of alien visitors.

It's objectively real, as physical evidence indicates.

It's probably something far stranger than what we think it is. The UFO wears the clothes of spaceships from beyond because that's what makes sense to the human mind.

But the spaceships rely on a mode of travel beyond our current understanding and are obviously more capable than ours. If the phenomenon is just a cultural construct why don't UFOs rely on rockets and reaction mass? Even sci fi like the "starship Enterprise" relied on that.

But I bet it's much weirder than that and certainly has nothing so simplistic attached to it as aliens making crop circles to communicate with us.

Much of what ETs do may be intended to just confuse or mislead us.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Reason why they wouldn't communicate with us is simply that we look to them quite primitive by their standards.

Most likely reason for their visits is collecting DNA samples. DNA is complex enough that it would present challenge even to most advanced civilizations.

Solid proof?
Would America be discovered at all if human race waited for "solid proof" ;-)))

Solid proof?
Remember the high school? Are the nerds the first one to get laid? Exactly! ... That's because they need a 'solid proof' ;-)))

Solid proof?
You know, this is a true anecdote, as well. It took scientist 65 years to discover Panda bears and Pandas were there all the time. When at a beginning of 19-th century the first reports started coming from China about black and white bear, that was eating grass European scholars completely ridiculed the whole thing. They said that everybody knows that bears don't come in black & white furs and they are carnivores, so they can't possibly eat bamboo trees.

As well they said "we are scientists" and reports come from "poor Chinese farmers". To whom do you believe more?

Solid proof?
As nuclear physicist, Stanton Freedman said, there is an overwhelming evidence, but no hard proof. It is essential part of human condition to act on intuition, not just by reason. Human race got this far, because we acted before 'solid proof' was available.

For example Babylon Battery that was used for gold plating jewelry in ancient Babylon. Did they knew Electrodynamics and Maxwell equations? Did they even knew what electricity is?

Or to use Stanton Freedman's example, back in the 17 and 18th century it was noticed that sailors that eat lime didn't suffer from scurvy. Did they have hard evidence? Not at all, hard evidence and knowledge of existence of C-vitamin was only available around the beginning of 20th century.

Or do you want to hear about, the Wright brothers who had nothing but intuition? Bernoulli's principle, which makes aeroplanes possible was known since 18-th century. But yet academic community of the 19-th century firmly stuck in its own arrogance and it believed that machine heavier than air can't fly. So strong was influence of academia, that after Wright brothers successfully flew at Kitty Hawk beach, all newspapers in US refused to publish the story for 5 years. 5 years!!!

Solid proof?
Ufology is like crime scene forensic. Difference being that culprit left for another planet.

Same as crime scene forensic, we have to work with imperfect data and relay on statistics. There is nothing non-scientific about that. Quantum mechanics is 100% based on statistical analysis. There is no such thing as 'solid proof' in QM.

There is no hard proof in Ufology. So asking for 'hard proofs' is just trying to walk while shooting oneself into a foot. As long as one has some statistics its OK to move forward.

Each one of the witnesses in UFO cases would be legally qualified to put a grown up culprit into a prison for any crime proven in a court. So why suddenly they are not believed just because incidents pertain to UFOs?

Essentially, we are just afraid to admit to ourselves that they are here and that they have powers that scare us.

 

[Trajanus]

Most likely reason for their visits is collecting DNA samples. DNA is complex enough that it would present challenge even to most advanced civilizations.

Lol, debatable and others have expressed doubts about DNA harvesting as a motive.

Ufology is like crime scene forensic. Difference being that culprit left for another planet.

Not necessarily, in all cases.

Essentially, we are just afraid to admit to ourselves that they are here and that they have powers that scare us.

That's part of it but many believe, and not without justification, that the government has been withholding proof.

 

[DROBNJAK]

... The universe is old enough that aliens might have a multi-billion year head start

... Now consider how different humans are from the first life forms to arise on our planet. Assuming the rate of evolutionary change remains constant, the life forms on a planet with a 3.4 billion year head start would be about as different from our level of complexity as we are from the simplest bacteria.

... So, with technological development beginning 3.4 billion years ahead of ours, the gap between us and an alien race would not be just the gap between bacteria and us, but conceivably exponentially greater.

We are completely on the same page here. Most people don't realize that the difference in technological development can be not just 100 or 200 years. Aliens can be technologically 1 billion years ahead of us.

Particularly because because the most frequent stars in the universe are Red Dwarfs, not Sun like stars. Sun has about another 1 billion years before it bloats into red giant, while Red Dwarfs burn so slowly that they can last longer than the present age of the universe. Species coming from a planet near Red Dwarf would have no problem being 1-2 billion years old, while we separated from our biological down-line merely 100,000 years ago.

 

[Trajanus]

Particularly because because the most frequent stars in the universe are Red Dwarfs, not Sun like stars. Sun has about another 1 billion years before it bloats into red giant, while Red Dwarfs burn so slowly that they can last longer than the present age of the universe. Species coming from a planet near Red Dwarf would have no problem being 1-2 billion years old, while we separated from our biological down-line merely 100,000 years ago.

Unfortunately we don't know if life is really possible near a Red Dwarf. In addition to the intense radiation such stars are said to emit early in their lives, any planet close enough to theoretically be in their "ecosphere" might inevitably incur tidal locking. And while some red dwarfs are very old, to my knowledge, any Population II star, of any spectral class, is probably metal deficient. It's likely trappist has seven planets because it's relatively very young. Population II red dwarves may have no earthsized planets.

 

[DROBNJAK]

I have a pet theory ;-)

Red Dwarfs can still be the best place for developing intelligent life.

The reason is because we are ignoring the fact that just in Solar system there are possibly up to SEVEN oceans. From dwarf planet Ceres and a number of outer solar system moons, including Jupiter's Europa and Ganimede, Saturn's Enceladus, and Neptune's Triton. Some even suspect a subsurface ocean on Pluto.

In UFO lore abductees and contacties in about 50% of cases describe Grays as having big eyes, without iris. Exactly as deep ocean fish.

 

[Trajanus]

In UFO lore abductees and contacties in about 50% of cases describe Grays as having big eyes, without iris. Exactly as deep ocean fish.

And deep sea creatures became a spacefaring species?

 

[DROBNJAK]

If they are in Red Dwarf system they would have 6-10 billion years to come out. I might be wrong, but out of all the Earth's 4.5 billion years, vertebrates only existed during 0.5 billion years. Rest of time was just germs, plants and bugs. So, life from an submerged ocean planet orbiting red dwarf star would have a huge advantage, just because of they would have 4-5 times more time to develop life.

I call these submerged ocean planets "Egg planets", because they have outer shell (ice crust), white (ocean) and planet's core (yolk). Just in the solar system Egg Planets outnumber Earth 5:1. If Red Dwarfs are added in, most likely it would be something like 10-15 : 1. Plus, they have at least 5:1 advantage in vertebra development time. On the balance of probabilities, "Egg Planets" would have have like 30-40:1 more chance to produce vertebra life forms than Earth like planets. My math here is fast and loose, but just showing the general idea.

Actually, UFO reports related to bodies of water are more frequent than general public knows. Water related UFO cases are as well the highest quality cases, because they are seen from ships and they are almost always seen by multiple crew members. There are 3 or 4 very good books on amazon about UFOs and water.

There is an interesting book I read about UFO cases archive of the Soviet Navy. There was one case where a marine scientist was diving about in a Black Sea, when two fish-like humanoids came at him out of the depths and stood just few meters away from him. Funny enough, he never went back and stopped diving for the rest of his life.

 

[Trajanus]

If they are in Red Dwarf system they would have 6-10 billion years to come out. I might be wrong, but out of all the Earth's 4.5 billion years, vertebrates only existed during 0.5 billion years.

That's about it. But again, there are so many uncertainties about red dwarfs.....

I call these submerged ocean planets "Egg planets", because they have outer shell (ice crust), white (ocean) and planet's core (yolk). Just in the solar system Egg Planets outnumber Earth 5:1. If Red Dwarfs are added in, most likely it would be something like 10-15 : 1. Plus, they have at least 5:1 advantage in vertebra development time. On the balance of probabilities, "Egg Planets" would have have like 30-40:1 more chance to produce vertebra life forms than Earth like planets. My math here is fast and loose, but just showing the general idea.

...like if an "ecosphere planet" is tidally locked, the bulk of its water will end up frozen in one hemisphere, while the day side is dessicated if not scorched.

There is an interesting book I read about UFO cases archive of the Soviet Navy. There was one case where a marine scientist was diving about in a Black Sea, when two fish-like humanoids came at him out of the depths and stood just few meters away from him. Funny enough, he never went back and stopped diving for the rest of his life.

Interesting but probably just deception, like a lot of what the phenomenon does. I don't believe there are bona fide insectoid or fish ETs.

 

[DROBNJAK]

... like if an "ecosphere planet" is tidally locked, the bulk of its water will end up frozen in one hemisphere, while the day side is dessicated if not scorched.

That is not an absolute truth, but a question of probabilities. Saturn's moons are tidaly locked, but still have oceans that are not totally frozen. That's simply because liquids are much better in conducting heat, from hot to cold side, than gaseous atmospheres.

... Interesting but probably just deception ...

Yeah, obviously you can pick and choose calling this or that "deception". He was grown up man, professional scientist, who spent his life diving. What solid proof you have that it was a "deception". Exactly none ;-)