I'm pissed at the UFO guys

[Schuyler]

I posted this on ATS in response to a question, "What would it take to get you to believe?" by a New Age nutcase channeler frustrated that there are so many skeptics who question the ray guns and garbage can lids. Response so far is either undecipherable, i.e. new age space brotherese, or that I'm an angry guy. I'd like to get your response as well (cough):

I'm pissed at the UFO guys. Really. Why are they such incredible wusses? They sneak around in the dark. They kidnap innocent people, use mind control on them and shove implants up their wazzus. They conduct secret experiments or drain blood from our livestock. What? Is this supposed to scare us? Every time they are seen they run away or disappear. Every time one of their flimsy ships hits a radar beam it crashes, so I think they know we're not scared of them.

But they do all this stealth nonsense and mess up our wheat with crazy crop circles nobody understands. Oh, yeah, it's a Mandelbrot set, but what the f does it mean? If they do make contact, it's either with a doped up 60's leftover hippy with LSD flashbacks who fakes UFO models with pie tins, buys plastic ray guns off ebay and says they're real, or some secret government new world order fascist commie masonic black project type who doesn't want to tell anybody, or some whacky channeler who makes up stuff anyway. I mean, really; if they want us to change why don't they talk to some credible people? And, no, Greer isn't credible. He USED to be credible, but he whigged out. We can get you a list of a dozen credible people in a few minutes, really. How about Stan Friedman? All he talks about is stuff that happened half a century ago anyway; he needs some new material. How about the Dali Lama? How about Al Gore? (Well, no, forget that.) Show up during a Presidential debate. Now that would be cool! How about the Amazing Randi? Really, this is easy. Just ask. There are still a few people out here who haven't completely destroyed their own reputations. Use them, but don't use menguard!! (ed: the OP)

And stop with this inter-dimensional reincarnational soul catcher crapola. Yeah, I know it's probably true, but you don't have to go there. It's too complex. It's counter-productive. And besides, that WILL really freak us out. Save it for AFTER you address a joint session of Congress, Parliament, and the kibbutz (or whatever). And, look. We promise not to panic. We all watched Aliens, for god's sake and we kicked the crap out of you in Independence Day. We didn't panic then. The religious zealots will just attend church more, we guarantee it. If you look like the Close Encounters guys you'll do fine. We like them; they're cute.

And these jerk aliens have gotten worse over time. They used to give you straight answers. At least when they talked to George Adamski the alien guys got out of their spaceships and shook hands and said yeah, we're from Venus and you better stop messing with nuclear weapons. So that's what we did. Oh, there have been a coupla tests since then, and we sure did build a lot of them, but we never set them off on people again after the space guys told us not to. Besides, there are a lot less of them than there used to be.

If these jerks are so interested in our well being or the well being of the planet then they need to stop messing around. They need to show themselves, land on the white house lawn (or Paris or London or New Delhi. I don't really give a rat's behind WHERE, just DO IT! No, we're not going to shoot you down. I thought you guys could handle it, anyway. Make sure the cameras are there.

And if they tell us, look, humans, you gotta go to solar power in ten years. You already know how to do it. You have the technology. You have to phase out carbon. So here's the plan. You go to solar and we'll let you into the Galactic Federation and give you lots of cool stuff. Given a generation you'll all be rich as hell and nobody starves. Humanity no longer suffers and everyone's happy. Deal?

So that's what the UFO guys need to do. Quit hiding behind trees, come out in the open and say, "Hey, we're here. You must deal with us. You have no choice." But if you continue to hide and play games only the weirdos and nutcases and New Agers will believe you. And that simply is not enough to be effective. Get over yourselves and Come on Down!

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I'll keep this brief.

My guess is that the "aliens" see their behavior differently than you do and that's why they do it. If they shared your perspective, they would probably do what you suggest. But ask yourself, why assume you know how they should or shouldn't behave? They're the advanced ones after all. At least in many ways they are advanced. Maybe not all.

 

[Schuyler]

I'll keep this brief.

My guess is that the "aliens" see their behavior differently than you do and that's why they do it. If they shared your perspective, they would probably do what you suggest. But ask yourself, why assume you know how they should or shouldn't behave? They're the advanced ones after all. At least in many ways they are advanced. Maybe not all.

As much as I appreciate your comment, that wasn't really the point of my post. The original poster was frustrated that no one 'believes' and wanted to know what it would take. My issue is that the ufo field is full of whackos and nut jobs pushing these weired agendas and stories, from crop circles to cattle mutilations. I was hoping to comment on the state of ufology actually more than the state of the aliens.

But back to your issue. If their differences of perspective account for their behavior, my isssue is that they don't "get it" any more than we get them. If so, then they are a failure. That's their problem, not ours.

 

[Rick Deckard]

As much as I appreciate your comment, that wasn't really the point of my post. The original poster was frustrated that no one 'believes' and wanted to know what it would take. My issue is that the ufo field is full of whackos and nut jobs pushing these weired agendas and stories, from crop circles to cattle mutilations. I was hoping to comment on the state of ufology actually more than the state of the aliens.

Personally, I don't care what anyone else believes any more - I have my own beliefs based on my own life experiences (general, not UFO-related). I make my own mind up based on what I believe are the correct facts. I may be wrong about some things and right about others. But so what?

I appreciate that I really have no real way of getting to 'the truth' - if the 'UFO reality' is being kept behind closed doors, then it is out of 'civilian' reach. Doesn't matter how many FOIA requests you file or how many petitions you organize, you won't get the truth until they're ready to give it.

It's obvious that *if* the UFO phenomena is intelligent then it doesn't want open contact otherwise we would have seen it by now. If the 'powers that be' do know what it is and they know it's an ETI then I think the act of 'keeping the lid on it' is a crime against humanity.

I'm tired of the UFO 'circus' - it's a sideshow and in the end is counter-productive. Yeah, we can all look at the images and video's and proclaim them 'genuine' or 'fake', but in the end it makes no difference.

There are two distinct groups of people in this field - those that have had profound experiences and those that haven't. I'm glad I'm in the second group because it must be exponentially more frustrating for the first group to have had such life-changing experiences and feel unable to openly discuss them for fear of the consequences.

 

[CapnG]

David Biedny has said many times on the show the sentiment I maintain: "I don't want to have to BELIEVE anything, I want to KNOW." That right there is the key issue with ufology (and other paranormal fields but ufology in particular). New age nutcases can chatter on all they like about believing and trusting and feeling. Doesn't mean squat to the rest of us.

In other words, to spout a growing internet meme: "pix or it didn't happen"

 

[dorkbot]

I demand all non-human intelligence conform to my expectations of such.

It's definitely frustrating. I was recently reading someone's statement/speculation that while there are people in the military and government that were interested in the problem, they really didn't have that much better of an idea as to what was really going on than the ufo community and the best they could do was to try and track the people that the ufos/aliens seemed to be interacting with. Imagine for a moment that this is actually the case and think how frustrating it must be from their perspective. What a complete mess it must be to have to keep tabs on the ufo community and sort through all the crap it contains attempting to find out what is actually genuine. The internet has just added an order of magnitude more noise to the issue.

 

[musictomyears]

If the 'powers that be' do know what it is and they know it's an ETI then I think the act of 'keeping the lid on it' is a crime against humanity.
...
There are two distinct groups of people in this field - those that have had profound experiences and those that haven't. I'm glad I'm in the second group because it must be exponentially more frustrating for the first group to have had such life-changing experiences and feel unable to openly discuss them for fear of the consequences.

That is my natural reaction also, to believe that keeping the UFO reality a secret is a crime against humanity.

However, sometimes I am not so sure. I think one can make a valid argument for keeping it secret - with the best of intentions. Let's be honest, and take a look at humanity: What a sorry lot are we - in so many ways. We haven't yet figured out that killing each other is a bad idea. We argue over whether or not we should protect the environment we depend upon, and the great variety of species here on Earth. We attend churches, mosques, wats, and synagogues, to find a God that is inside of us. And, yeah, we look at the skies, and think we are alone in the universe...

Man, we have so much to learn before we can even contemplate joining the cosmic community, it is mind boggling. We are quite literally a danger to any alien life-form coming here, and we are at danger of abusing the information we might glean from such a visit. Why would anyone, in their right mind, give knowledge of UFOs, deep space travel, and free energy to such a bunch of weirdos? Hey?

So, I personally have come to the conclusion that getting too excited about aliens and UFOs might not necessarily be a responsible approach. I think it is wise to gather and share knowledge, and to gently help the process of disclosure along - until such time as humanity has grown up to handle the truth.

But you sure are right (and that was very insightful of you to say so) that "it must be exponentially more frustrating for the first group to have had such life-changing experiences and feel unable to openly discuss them for fear of the consequences."

 

[DBTrek]

I wish there were a way to definitely know the truth . . . especially if we were allowed to make bets before the "truth" were revealed.

I know where my money would be; if I'm right about where I think many others would put their money I could be in line to make a tidy sum. Perhaps even a downright killing.

. . . or I might lose my shirt. [shrug]

Nah, I'd make a killing.


-DBTrek

 

[Paranormalfreak101]

The reason aliens act the way they do, is because of us. All we humans do is kill kill kill. Destroy destroy destroy. Based on movies, most people think that aliens are hostile, when we are the hostile ones. We are killing our own species. Thats not right. Thats why they might be afraid of us.

 

[Mogwa]

The reason aliens act the way they do, is because of us. All we humans do is kill kill kill. Destroy destroy destroy. Based on movies, most people think that aliens are hostile, when we are the hostile ones. We are killing our own species. Thats not right. Thats why they might be afraid of us.

Humans as the ultimate villains. The fundamental tenet of an ancient and hateful religion. Why not make it official? We'll elect Al Gore Pope and anoint Jeremy Rifkin as the promised Messiah. The Club of Rome can serve as the College of Cardinals. Anyone who dares challenge our edicts will be condemned as a fascist blasphemer in the New York Times daily religion section, then burned alive in a televised auto de fe. Ratings should be spectacular.

Open your eyes. Take a look around you. Every day is Auschwitz for the creatures that inhabit this planet. In order to survive, they must kill as many other living things as possible to procure food, secure their safety, or find a mate. This savage, eternal warfare begins at the level of single celled organisms and continues all the way to the top of the food chain. Even plants have to crowd out smaller, weaker individuals in the struggle for living space and resources. The very soil that sustains them is composed of the rotting bodies of their parents and offspring.

The old argument that mankind is the only species that kills for pleasure or sport has been repeatedly refuted by longitudinal studies from qualified experts working in the field. But that doesn't stop most people from still clinging to that absurd notion. It's almost as if they take comfort in the supposed depravity of their own kind. Excepting themselves, of course.

I readily admit there are cruel, evil, merciless predators among us. But there are far many more who are not. In that regard we are no different than any other species native to this world. What we are is what we were created, in one way or another. Our salvation will never come from dogma or theology of any kind, whether founded in supernatural superstition or baseless pseudo-scientific fear mongering. We are better than the stuff from which we are made. It is within each of our abilities to replace dread with hope, hate for compassion, mercy for vengeance, justice for oppression.
That is the greatest benefit mind offers over blind instinct.

End of sermon. Now have a nosh on something tasty. Get laid. Have a nice drink. I suggest rum and Coke. You could do worse.

 

[Rick Deckard]

The reason aliens act the way they do, is because of us. All we humans do is kill kill kill. Destroy destroy destroy. Based on movies, most people think that aliens are hostile, when we are the hostile ones. We are killing our own species. Thats not right. Thats why they might be afraid of us.

Maybe if the world was accepting of their existence we could all stop killing each other, join forces and point our weapons at them instead...


...Reagan made a speech that pretty much said that.

 

[CapnG]

Anyone who dares challenge our edicts will be condemned as a fascist blasphemer in the New York Times daily religion section, then burned alive in a televised auto de fe.

"Auto du fe? What's an auto du fe?"

"It's what you auto not du but you du any fe!"

 

[Schuyler]

Wow. I’m really surprised the direction this thread has taken. It’s okay; no worries. Threads do that sometimes so that’s just the way it goes. I really thought I was addressing the state of beliefs around UFOs by pretending to be upset at the stupid aliens. I know it’s hard to believe, but I actually know aliens would not have the same perspective on life and events as I do because they didn’t grow up on North 29th and Baltimore Street like I did. I mean, I really do know what the words ‘ethnocentric’ and ‘anthropomorphic’ mean. It’s all a way to claim I don’t know anything because of my particular sex, race, education, religion, dna, or cultural background, but everyone else, not constrained by my belief system, is strangely immune of any constraints of their own, therefore they have more valid thoughts. I’m kinda tired of hearing people say that because it’s a knee-jerk liberal reaction. F ‘ethnocentric’ alien guys. It’s my turn to call the shots and I say stop with the abduction and crop circle crapola. Land or shove off! I don’t think to say we just don’t understand them cuts the mustard. I don’t think to point out how we’re killers so their scared of us cuts the mustard either. Besides, as was pointed out, it’s not just us. Lions, falcons, and army ants kill pretty well, themselves. In fact, I see no evidence that ‘aliens’ are more peaceful or have a higher sense of moral purpose than we do. There are plenty of pretty grim stories out there. I don’t see how you can throw them out just because you like the plant loving ET better.

The original thread was lamenting the fact that people won’t believe easily. Believe in what? Oh, Billy Meier’s plastic ray gun, for example, or the latest “fantastic!” pictures of landing lights by Francine, or maybe that the Moon has a breathable atmosphere, gravity half of earth’s, and inhabited cities. (But everyone respects John Lear so much. After all, he can fly airplanes, so he must be telling the truth!) Or maybe the forests on Mars and face on Cydonia or the Serpo guys, or maybe that everything the government, vast that it is, has done is a conspiracy by the black ops guys trying to enslave the entire population in a new world order they control. Or that the Jews or Bush did the WTC and people KNOW FOR CERTAIN that this is so!

So I’d like to take the moonbeam guys and slap them upside the head. They’ll follow any shyster with a story. They are not a part of the solution; they are part of the problem. The ufo field is mired in muck. This place right here is better than most because it has a bit more of a skeptical leaning. It’s a little more comfortable than hanging out with crazies at ATS. I think. So that was the point of my post, to show those guys they were idiots. But it seems most of them are irony impaired. I trust that's not true here.

 

[CapnG]

I trust that's not true here.

You might be setting your sights a little high. Hard core skeptics and true believers don't seem to last long around here though and the rest of us are all sort of stuck in the muck you mentioned.

 

[Schuyler]

You might be setting your sights a little high. Hard core skeptics and true believers don't seem to last long around here though and the rest of us are all sort of stuck in the muck you mentioned.

Actually, to be quite honest, I'm really surprised that I seem to be coming down on the skeptic side so often. I thought I was a 'believer,' more or less. But when faced with ray guns and serpos I just shake my head. I much prefer a middle-of-the-road approach.

 

[musictomyears]

Open your eyes. Take a look around you. Every day is Auschwitz for the creatures that inhabit this planet. In order to survive, they must kill as many other living things as possible to procure food, secure their safety, or find a mate. This savage, eternal warfare begins at the level of single celled organisms and continues all the way to the top of the food chain. Even plants have to crowd out smaller, weaker individuals in the struggle for living space and resources. The very soil that sustains them is composed of the rotting bodies of their parents and offspring.

May I add another angle. For those who happen to believe in the afterlife and reincarnation, the concept of aliens visiting Earth is not only unsurprising, but offers also little comfort in terms of hope for salvation from our troubles. If ETs that come here are physically incarnated beings, similar to ourselves, they, by definition, inhabit a "lower" realm, reflecting their level of spiritual understanding. They are not, and can never be, "Gods". They may be technologically advanced - and there is plenty of evidence for that - but they can be spiritually less aware than some humans. The greys would be a good example of an intellectually advanced race, that spiritually is out of whack with certain aspects of itself. (For the same reasons, human gurus are at best capable teachers on the path of enlightenment, but should never be elevated to anything more than that.)

 

[musictomyears]

I don't think to point out how we're killers so their scared of us cuts the mustard either.

You may not like that for a reason, but what if it is true?

I am certain the ETs could blow us all to smithereens, if they wanted to. However, they might just be smart enough to step back, and let us get on with blowing up each other instead.
BTW, there are truckloads of weapons in space and on the ground - our weapons, paid for with tax dollars (and rubels, etc.). If I was an alien, I'd probably think twice before coming here - thanks to Reagan's Star Wars programmes and the like.

 

[Schuyler]

You may not like that for a reason, but what if it is true?

I am certain the ETs could blow us all to smithereens, if they wanted to. However, they might just be smart enough to step back, and let us get on with blowing up each other instead.

I could believe in a Prime Directive or something to not interfere, but I find it hard to imagine an advanced ET race would worry about a few primitive nukes in space. If they can't find a way to contain stuff like that, they can't be that advanced.

Which brings up the possibility--that their skills lie in other areas (as long as we're being abjectly speculative here anyway). If they are inter-dimensional (rather than 'from outer space') they may not be able to bring their heavy artillery here from wherever they come from. Going back to your previous post, if they flit in and out of incarnations and so on, their issues may be way different than facing off with some battle cruiser types. Anyway, that kind of where my own research is headed.

 

[musictomyears]

Going back to your previous post, if they flit in and out of incarnations and so on, their issues may be way different than facing off with some battle cruiser types.

I wasn't suggesting that aliens "flit in and out of incarnations", but that they are subject to reincarnation in the same way we are. I don't know if they really are, but I think it's likely.

In terms of using violence, most aliens appear to be generally peaceful.