Importance of symbols?

[Pegusta]

First post and I will try not to make an ass out of myself, see how that goes.

Having researched and pondered the enigma of UFOs for some years, several aspects of this phenomenon has struck me. One of them the presence of symbols in many cases, such as witnesses claiming to have seen insignias (the winged snake is one of my favorites), hieroglyph- like markings on the outside of crafts and on panels and screens inside of them. Another example is the strange connection with different animals in conjunction to UFO and abduction experiences, such as different kinds of birds of prey, the owl seemingly the most prominent. Yet another example is the religious symbolism present in many cases such as in Fatima. The religious aspect does not seem to be restrained to symbolism and mythology pertaining to religions being practiced today, but also older religions such as for example ancient Egyptian beliefs and shamanism.


Another example (and I have experienced this myself on several occasions) is the presence of seemingly odd number combinations. Under one weird period of my life I woke up at exactly the same time every night - 03.33. The reason I mention this in the ufo context is that I experienced other things in connection with these experiences.
This phenomenon of people waking up in a certain time in the night has been reported by numerous people. With the reservation that I misremember, I recall even Greg Bishop waking up at odd times during one night; I believe it was the night prior to him meeting Karla Turner.

It should be noted, if you haven’t noticed it already that I put some significance to some pretty controversial aspects within the ufo- related spectrum of phenomenon, such as some claims of contactees and abduction experiences. This because I find it likely that there is an anomalous core at some of these experiences.


What, if any, are the possible implications of all this? Could this tell us something about the source of this phenomenon? One might in the light of this be inclined to believe that this points to the fact that the ufo- phenomenon is a manifestation of either the individual or even the collective unconscious, as Carl Jung and others have proposed, naming the symbols archetypes. It is certainly a possibility, but this seemingly falls short in the inability to explain the physical evidence present in some cases.

One might even consider this phenomenon having something to do with the occult like some suggest considering the presence of important symbols, different deities and even ritualistic aspects.


Assuming there really is a source external in relation to the human race – and I find it reasonable to at least entertain this possibility – is it possible that whatever it is communicates with us mainly on a symbolical level. Of course all communication is pretty much an exchange of symbols, images and representations. However, is it possible that we should look closer at the significance of the symbols that seem to be present in the periphery in many experiences?

Many seem to assume that an outside force, whether it be extra- crypto- or ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, occult or whatever, would be communicating with as in a manner instantly recognizable and understandable to us. Meaning they would state their business and we would understand it plain and simple, and even respond in a similarly clear manner. One could point to the fact that people have claimed to have had verbal (or even telepathic) communication with these guys, whatever we chose to call them. But could it not be a little too easy to jump to premature conclusions when it comes to our expectation of the manner in which they are presumed to communicate, namely in a way easily understandable to us humans. For is it not possible that “they” normally communicate (assuming that even this concept is not inherently foreign to them to begin with) in a way that is totally foreign to us? Maybe they observe us and our peculiar ways of interacting with each other, and in our society as a whole and notice our excessive use of symbols. And they find that it is with symbols they should communicate, but they don’t know exactly how they can make these symbols accessible to us in a manner that is natural to us in our communication. Thus the absurd and awkward feel too many of the ufo experiences.

Anyway, sorry for a long and possibly confusing (and certainly confused) post. English is not my first language, but I hope I get my point across.

 

[Ron Collins]

This is an interesting idea. All written languages are based, however far back, on symbols. Perhaps, a return to a symbol based language would prove easier to translate core concepts universally. In fact, is this not what we try to accomplish with road signs? Perhaps, a symbol based language helps fluency even among the different sects of the same species like our road signs or the instruction manual for Ikea furniture does. A real spoken/written language could possibly be supplanted by universal symbols without the need for complex translations. It is an excellent theory on why these sort of primitive forms of communication are so often reported around things of such obviously high technological sophistication.

 

[nameless]

 

[Pegusta]

@Ron Collins
Agreed. You present good points. I also think it is important to step out of our human perspective, at least to try to do so. And I am not even certain we are able to do it. In a sense we may be stuck in a sort of species - subjectivity.

Some have brought up the possibility that whatever is interacting with us is coming from a hive mind perspective. I am not saying that is the case, but it certainly adds some interesting points to consider in the context of interspecies communication. What role has symbols, and representations in such a system? We humans are also very focused on our individuality, and we might even say that it could be equated to sentience, and sentience in turn is instrinsically connected to our communication "construct". What would the implications of this be in relation to a species with a hive perspective communicating with humans? Again, their way of relating to the concept of communication may be so strange from our point of view that we may not even have a way of processing it intellectually. All pure speculation of course, but it is certainly interesting.

@nameless
Jaques Vallee is in my opinion one of the greatest thinkers in all of ufology and has contributed immensly to the topic not just of ufos, but in anomoulous research in general.

On the same note Greg Bishop is a breath of fresh air in present day ufology, and someone I admire immensely for his creative but yet sober approach.

Both of whom in my estimation represent what I consider a very sound thought basis for all to consider when approaching the topic of ufos, seasoned with the ability to think uot of the box.

The term out of the box thinkers is possibly a cliché to some, but I consider it a compliment.

Wilson I havent heard about though. Has he written any books you would recommend reading?

 

[handen]

I've always wondered about how the Ummo symbol managed to show up in Voronezh. I mean, it's a stick shift logo.

Ummo.

Voronezh.

Bonus: It sort of shows up in the Japanese story of Utsuro Bune as well. (Second symbol from the top, far right. Other depictions don't have the 90 degree angle branching out from the middle line.)

I'm not too well versed in the whole Ummo fiasco and as of yet don't find it to be all that credible, but the Voronezh case still has the air of mystery about it that makes me wonder...

 

[nameless]

This is RAWs most famous book ;
Prometheus Rising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nameless]

I'm assuming you checked out CGJ Man and his Symbols. It all starts there.

 

[nameless]

I include RAW because he goes into the construction of "reality tunnels" through (the disease of)language/symbols. Once you get this you can understand how to hack your brain consciously as per magickians or unconsciously as per anomalous "para-normal" experiences that occur naturally or intentionally.

 

[Pegusta]

Yes, Jung provides great many interesting thoughts. Not just on ufos but on the human condition in general. I have always been intrigued by the psychological component concerning the phenomenon. For some reason any hypothesis presented involving the role of consciousness and our inner world, is by some instantly considered debunking. I am not saying we should stop looking at the physical aspect of this phenomenon alltogether, but I suspect that it may well be in the interaction and the impact it has on the observer (and possibly also us who are observing the observer) where we will find some progress.

Having briefly looked in to it, Wilsons book sounds fascinating. I will certainly give it a read when my schedule is less intense. I really appreciate getting views from people that are willing to venture onto less frequented tracks in terms of finding answears to this elusive enigma.

Regarding Ummo - Voronezh, and the japanese story:

As you say Ummo was a hoax, and while there still seems to be some uncertainty regarding the Voronezh case, I also find the implications intriguing. Naturally more so if the latter incident was the real deal. The implications in this case would be fascinating to say the least, and more so taking into account the japanese encounter. It certainly would add to the tricksterish aspect not seldom displayed. We always seem to be one or more steps behind, finding ourselves in some weird play, where the lines constantly changes. I think it was Vallee who referred to it all as a type of masquerade, and I find it an apt descripton. But perhaps it is they who are struggling to communicate with us, being equally frustrated as we are.