Is Osama Bin Laden dead or alive?

[jkoci]

BBC News - Is Osama Bin Laden dead or alive?

 

[skunkape]

Benazir Bhutto said that Pakistani intelligence reptorted to her that he was shot dead by one of his own men.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[jkoci]

Benazir Bhutto said that Pakistani intelligence reptorted to her that he was shot dead by one of his own men.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

Never heard that one before. I found these while searching.

 

[Kieran]

This not a joke and I'm serious In the end it probably never happened. He changed his appearance, he had cosmetic surgery. And he looks different. If his dead. It does not matter. He is just a figure head for a movement of individuals who sole aim is jihad.

 

[Xylo]

I believe he's been dead since December of 2001. I remember seeing a news clip where an anchor mentioned something about his death during some of the cave bombings. Nothing was ever announced officially, however.

After that the next official "Al Qaeda" & Bin-Laden video showed a man who sort of resembled Bin-Laden, in that he had a beard and an aged face.

Regardless, Bin-Laden has become a convenient "face" for terrorism, just as Santa Claus/Saint Nicholas has become a face for Christmas. Or the "boogeyman" has become the face for things that go bump in the night. In my opinion, Bin-Laden and Al Qaeda have become the "Remember the Alamo" or "Remember Pearl Harbor" cry for the current generation.

Whether it's warranted or not is another story.

 

[Simonemendez]

Benazir Bhutto said that Pakistani intelligence reptorted to her that he was shot dead by one of his own men.
<INPUT id=gwProxy type=hidden><!--Session data--><INPUT id=jsProxy onclick=jsCall(); type=hidden>

I can believe that, because I myself have believed that Osama was in cahoots with certain Western Insiders, which are the ones responsible for allowing 9-11-01 to happen, and hide the airliner black boxes and the building wreckage.

 

[Red]

Here are a couple more links:
Osama bin Laden - a dead nemesis perpetuated by the US government
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212851/Has-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-seven-years--U-S-Britain-covering-continue-war-terror.html

And someone has even written a book:
Amazon.com: Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive? (9781566567831): David Ray Griffin: Books

I find this very troubling if this proves to be true, because then the game becomes who knew what and when did they know it? Did Osama ultimately become an American made boogeyman to justify a war in Iraq?

 

[Xylo]

I find this very troubling if this proves to be true, because then the game becomes who knew what and when did they know it? Did Osama ultimately become an American made boogeyman to justify a war in Iraq?

Thanks for the links.

And I think the answer to your question is a bit more complicated than just a "yes." I'd have to do a bit of research, but I think it goes back to the 1950's when the US wanted to have a strong influence in the Persian Gulf/oil producing regions. We lost quite a bit of political influence in that area, and have been attempting to get it back-but everything kept backfiring. The deposing of the Shah of Iran, the bombing in Beirut, the "aid" to the Mujahadeen, the Persian Gulf War (round 1) and now the Persian Gulf War (round 2) + War in Afghanistan.

Americans typically need a cause, a rallying point a "cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war" scenario before the commonweal will not only support but urge the politicians to flex American Military might in a big way. So yes, Bin-Laden is a good rallying point, so is Al Qaeda and so is/was the Taliban, Sadaam Hussein.

The instability that was present in that region before the US invaded was at least a predictable instability. The instability that has been caused by the US invasion is now an unpredictable instability, which means that the US Military now has to continually fight a war of occupation. But that occupation gives the US Government, and it's corporate sponsors the influence in that region that they wanted the entire time.

 

[skunkape]

Make sure you see this one which discredits my earlier post. There can be no less than 3 sides to every tale.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

 

[jkoci]

Make sure you see this one which discredits my earlier post. There can be no less than 3 sides to every tale.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

Very true. The video explains her comments well.

 

[Red]

The instability that was present in that region before the US invaded was at least a predictable instability. The instability that has been caused by the US invasion is now an unpredictable instability, which means that the US Military now has to continually fight a war of occupation. But that occupation gives the US Government, and it's corporate sponsors the influence in that region that they wanted the entire time.

Xylo,
Let's not forget that Saddam became the problem he was because of the CIA. What I find much more telling and scary is to whom the interests our government seems beholden to. And it ain't the average citizen.
I don't condone violence in any form, but it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to understand why many in the middle east could hate us so much, especially after decades of our country interfering in their affairs.

 

[Kieran]

Xylo,
Let's not forget that Saddam became the problem he was because of the CIA. What I find much more telling and scary is to whom the interests our government seems beholden to. And it ain't the average citizen.
I don't condone violence in any form, but it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to understand why many in the middle east could hate us so much, especially after decades of our country interfering in their affairs.

Empire's never last, history proves that fact, and they always get defeated or crumble in the end. The quest for dominance over others never wins in the long run.. Saddam was a tyrant and nobody disagreed that the removal of this man from power was a good thing and a need. Many Citizens of the United States were fooled into believing that the aims of the War in Iraq, were for defense purposes. Which was a lie and everybody knew at least people who had their thinking cap on. The aims were not to protect lives on both sides, but to gain resources and help an ally.

I love America, really do, have visited a few times in the past. When times where good. But America, as an outsider looking in. Is very similar to the British Empire. The British Empire portrayed a macho image to the world. Very similar to how United states is today. Hollywood has not helped. With war films like Rambo. Not good for the youth. To be watching crap like that.

Sometimes wars happen it unavoidable, we wouldn't be us. If there was know nation fighting with another over something.

Wars are never good. Nobody wins in a war really. It just ends. Victorious or defeated. The suffering, misery, destruction remains long after the troops stay or go home. We have not changed much. We thing we are civilised. But we are not. People in the Middle East might have a right to hate America. But their own nations have inflicted chaos and destruction upon other nations. It's a vicious circle.

 

[Xylo]

Xylo,
Let's not forget that Saddam became the problem he was because of the CIA. What I find much more telling and scary is to whom the interests our government seems beholden to. And it ain't the average citizen.
I don't condone violence in any form, but it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to understand why many in the middle east could hate us so much, especially after decades of our country interfering in their affairs.

That's what I mean by "backfiring." The USA has a way of creating larger problems than the ones they are trying to solve.

Wars are never good. Nobody wins in a war really. It just ends. Victorious or defeated.

Reminds me of one of my favorite Kurosawa movies "Seven Samurai." At the end of the battle, which the seven won, one of the main characters says

"Again we are defeated." The theme of that movie, in my opinion, is that resorting to violence, even in a just cause, should never be a source of pride. Sadly, the majority of the world has not and will not learn that lesson.

 

[Schuyler]

Interestingly, bin Laden's son has recently come out, telling of his life with his father and being forced into combat situations. He is now trying to get his sister out of Iran, where she is being held in 'protective custody.' And even with a lifetime with his father and being under his father's influence, his goal is to be come a peace ambassador between Islam and the west.

 

[Kieran]

That's what I mean by "backfiring." The USA has a way of creating larger problems than the ones they are trying to solve.



Reminds me of one of my favorite Kurosawa movies "Seven Samurai." At the end of the battle, which the seven won, one of the main characters says

"Again we are defeated." The theme of that movie, in my opinion, is that resorting to violence, even in a just cause, should never be a source of pride. Sadly, the majority of the world has not and will not learn that lesson.

So true Xylo. Have never seen the film. But it's a film. I've marked for future viewing.

 

[Kieran]

Interestingly, bin Laden's son has recently come out, telling of his life with his father and being forced into combat situations. He is now trying to get his sister out of Iran, where she is being held in 'protective custody.' And even with a lifetime with his father and being under his father's influence, his goal is to be come a peace ambassador between Islam and the west.

I'd doubt peace and everlasting peace. Will ever be attainable in the Middle East or even a mutual respect or harmony between Westerners and the Middle Eastern nations is possible. There is no light to be seen at the end of the tunnel as of today. Too much baggage. Hundreds of years, more or less. There is though some possible scenarios for change. Change nice word.

Where Some race in theory, invaded us from outside our planet or some unknown event, like an asteroid, was about to end the Human race. This might unite the human race for the common good. Nice to speculate. That change could happen in the face of adversity. It's terrible that you need outside influences to change a species view of one another.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Obviously he's both dead and alive until we open the box.
Schroedinger's Terrorist.

Actually, judging by a recent interview with one of his sons (where it was mentioned that he demanded his offspring volunteer for suicide mssions) I'd say he's been dead for decades, he just happens to still be inconveniently walking around talking and plotting. But as a human being he's dead.

 

[cyberknight]

From Time.com Link

In 2002, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said bin Laden had kidney disease, and that he had required a dialysis machine when he lived in Afghanistan. That same year, the FBI's top counterterrorism official, Dale Watson, said, "I personally think he is probably not with us anymore."

also,

Late-Night TV Jokes about Osama bin Laden and the Taliban..... Link

​