John Glenn on Frasier: Season 8 (2001), #16

[Schuyler]

Well??

 

[DanielBrenton]

"Docudrama," my asteroid. Frasier was a sitcom.

This is just the opposite of "disclosure." The subject has been used as fodder for comedy (read: ridicule) which is exactly the same thing that nearly all journalists have done to the subject since the 1960s, or maybe earlier.

For anyone to take this out of the sitcom context and consider it some kind of "left handed disclosure" is simply naive.

 

[Gareth]

You both have a point. Thanks for posting the vid Schuyler, its quite interesting.

DB you also raise some valid points.

 

[Schuyler]

I actually did not expect that kind of reaction.

As a sitcom the episode was decidedly 'not funny.' As I understand it, Glenn approached Frasier about the episode--not the opposite, when Frasier had a very wide audience at the time. The clip itself is not 'comedic' at all. When Roz and Frasier are arguing in the other room, the idea is that they are 'us,' embroiled in trivial pursuits while Glenn is spilling the beans in isolation. Here's a transcript of what Glenn said:

Back in those glory days, I was very uncomfortable when they asked us to say things we didn't want to say and deny other things. Some people asked, you know, were you alone out there? We never gave the real answer, and yet we see things out there, strange things, but we know what we saw out there. And we couldn't really say anything. The bosses were really afraid of this, they were afraid of the War of the Worlds type stuff, and about panic in the streets. So, we had to keep quiet. And now we only see these things in our nightmares or maybe in the movies, and some of them are pretty close to being the truth.

I don't see much comedic about this. Unlike most of Frasier, here every line said is designed to get a laugh, Glenn's speech stands out on stark contrast as a sober indictment, especially of NASA. He's also speaking directly to the TV audience; he's not acting. He's said he lied, NASA lied and he sees stuff in is nightmares. This is not the usual fodder for comedy.

Yet this was done on 2001, and like Roz and Frasier, we've just gone on ignoring the entire thing as if it never happened. I don't think this 'proves' anything conclusively, but some day we may look back at Glenn's and other astronauts' public statements and realize they were trying to tell us something.

We were just too sophisticated to listen.

 

[Gareth]

It does seem odd though. For this to be comedy, it really is quite a bit too subtle for the average Frasier watcher to appreciate. Its like a massive inside joke that I dont think many people at all would even get.

 

[Gareth]

Ya, I'm inclined to agree with you there Schuyler.

The entire thing is quite bizarre indeed.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

well, take a look at what he is doing as Roz and Frasier are arguing; at one point he is making gestures to simulate what looks like one-horned beasts, or perhaps demonstrating where a third eye is...

I think this is his response to those who accused him of covering up more than he alluded to in previous conversations where he said they had seen things.

On the other hand, Schuyler could be 100 percent correct and this is a way of providing disclosure without violating any of the non-disclosure 'rules' he agreed to.

I hope he has an autobiography waiting in a safe somewhere, to be released on the day he leaves Earth permanently...8)

 

[DanielBrenton]

Back in those glory days, I was very uncomfortable when they asked us to say things we didn't want to say and deny other things. Some people asked, you know, were you alone out there? We never gave the real answer, and yet we see things out there, strange things, but we know what we saw out there. And we couldn't really say anything. The bosses were really afraid of this, they were afraid of the War of the Worlds type stuff, and about panic in the streets. So, we had to keep quiet. And now we only see these things in our nightmares or maybe in the movies, and some of them are pretty close to being the truth.

Schuyler --

First, let me say my comments were not meant as an attack. Not my style.

Second, the intent here is clearly comedic, again because of the context. The cutting of his comments in the context of the argument between Frasier and the woman, the "bit" where Glenn is tracing the quick movements of the object in the air with his finger, and the line "And now we only see these things in our nightmares [short pause for effect] or maybe in the movies ..."

For two whole installments (before the magazine folded) I wrote a satiric column for Stuart Miller's Alien Worlds magazine, poking fun at the UFO memes of the day. I enjoyed writing for Stuart, because he actually had a sense of humor about the subject, whereas it seems like most followers of the phenomenon wouldn't get a joke if it slapped them in the face. I actually had someone seriously ask me about how to find a book I made up called The Really, Really Secret Mission of Apollo 18, which I "featured" in a piece making fun of the "Apollo 20" material from a year or so ago.

The gag here was that the iconic astronaut was making the most significant announcement of all time, and that Frasier and the woman broadcaster missed it because they were caught up in their personal issues.

Glenn's intention or not, this was used for humor's sake, and I will venture the opinion that most of the audience saw it as funny, and interpreted his "disclosure" as nothing more than a joke.

 

[Schuyler]

I certainly don't want to be put in the Disclosure camp! I just thought it was interesting--and I know I'm a johnny-come-lately since this appeared in 2001.

The thing that kind of pisses me off about this whole issue is, IF the astronauts DID see unusual things, whether it was UFOs or artifacts on the Moon, or whatever, why are they such wusses about it? Just come out and tell us what you saw and be done with it! All the moon walkers are getting on in years. Many of the original astronauts are already dead.

Yeah, I now they 'took a security oath' but if I were an astronaut over 80 years old I would be thinking carefully about 'courage' and what good I could do to tell what I knew. What can the Bad Guys do to me? Kill me? I'm 80. Big deal. Kill my family? OK, I get it, but as a mercenary-minded person, so what? Besides, if my family is dead already, I won't care. What's more important? (I know, some are shocked. I'm not.)

So when I do see such a thing as this, I wonder why he says WE have to get to the truth. If he has it and thinks we ought to have it, too, give it out. Thanks. If your reputation is more important to you than the truth, well, then, that tells me something about your character. So I'm not very happy with these guys that speak in guarded innuendo. Put out or shut up already!

And that part of the scenario makes me think they don't have much to tell. Someone would have done it. Sorry for the rant.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

I remember that. Damn that was weird. Yes, context is important. It's important to think about Glenn having only recently been a US senator, and of course he was the "eagle scout" of the original seven astronauts. He was playing himself in the show. For that guy to say those things was remarkable, sitcom or not. I thought the bit worked well in the show, putting the argument between Roz and Frasier in a very silly light. Iirc, what Glenn said in response to questions about the episode was pretty provocative, too, in a low key way. As I recall, he basically said "no comment." It's been a while, though, and I could be wrong. Anyway, it always seemed to me that if Glenn had wanted to say something like that, he would have done it in a subtle way as opposed to the approach Gordon Cooper took, for example. Myself, I would probably be more like Cooper (Yeah, we saw some weird shit out there!), but then I'll never be a senator!

 

[DanielBrenton]

It does seem odd though. For this to be comedy, it really is quite a bit too subtle for the average Frasier watcher to appreciate. Its like a massive inside joke that I dont think many people at all would even get.

I'm not so sure about that. It's probably obvious I wasn't a big fan of the show, but what I did see struck me as being written at a pretty clever level, and the humor leaned toward being more droll than "laugh at loud." I do think the core audience would consider the UFO subject to be crazy fringe talk.

 

[DanielBrenton]

The thing that kind of pisses me off about this whole issue is, IF the astronauts DID see unusual things, whether it was UFOs or artifacts on the Moon, or whatever, why are they such wusses about it? Just come out and tell us what you saw and be done with it! All the moon walkers are getting on in years. Many of the original astronauts are already dead.

I'm with you. It took Edgar Mitchell some time to finally "come out," though I wonder what "Buzz" Aldrin is thinking of sometimes ... there was that comment he made on CNN about a "monolith" on one of Mars' moons, which faded into obscurity almost as soon as it was uttered.

 

[Ezechiel]

I don't see much comedic about this. Unlike most of Frasier, here every line said is designed to get a laugh, Glenn's speech stands out on stark contrast as a sober indictment, especially of NASA. He's also speaking directly to the TV audience; he's not acting. He's said he lied, NASA lied and he sees stuff in is nightmares. This is not the usual fodder for comedy.

Using comedy as an opportunity to get information out makes sense if you're bound by a secrecy oath. I wouldn't totally brush off that possibility.

However, the most puzzling behavior in the entire space venture saga still has to be Neil Armstrong silence and enigmatic quotes when he speaks publicly.


Over the years many people questioned Armstrong as to what the "good luck, Mr. Gorsky..." statement meant, but Armstrong always just smiled.

On July 5, 1995, in Tampa bay, Florida, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26-year-old question to Armstrong. This time he finally responded.

Mr. Gorsky had died, so Neil Armstrong felt he could answer the question.

In 1938 when he was a kid in a small mid-west town, he was pla ying baseball with a friend in the backyard.

His friend hit the ball, which landed in his neighbor's yard by the bedroom windows.

His neighbors were Mr. And Mrs. Gorsky.

As he leaned down to pick up the ball, young Armstrong heard Mrs. Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky "sex! You want sex?! You'll get sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!"


http://banderasnews.com/0802/nw-armstrongquote.htm

 

[Yestopia]

Very interesting but I have to admit my money is on pure comedy playing upon the woo.

I have to wonder what the rest of the Apollo gang think of Mitchell's pronouncements.

Any and all of the communications that the lads had with ground control can be explained by the fact that this was still the cold war, the Soviets were listening and codes were vital.

The statements by Mitchell and Cooper are heresay. Zero proof.

So why on earth do i still think that there was/is/has been a non human presence on the moon? No , seriously, why? 8)

 

[Schuyler]

Actually, the audience for Frasier was not the typical audience for something like 'Dancing with the Stars' or other insipid sit-coms. It tried to hit a little higher, to the wine drinking educated urban audience, which you can criticize also, of course. I watched the entire program, and it is obvious in context that the entire program was to showcase Glenn and that the entire half hour's climax, if you will, was a singularly un-funny soliloquy directly to the audience. I don't think Glenn was or is part of 'Disclosure' at all; I think he was asking for it and attempting an end-run around any secrecy that had been imposed on him. This was not a comedy episode, and it wasn't intended to be.

Here's a clip of Neil Armstrong, who also had something to say about 'truth's protective layers.' I used this clip because it gave Armstrong's speech in full, though it is from a somewhat undesirable source, the clip itself is genuine.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Thanks for the clip, Schuyler. Things are always surreal in the presence of Hoaglund. Man, talk about distorting they guy's words! It seems painfully obvious to me that Armstrong was quoting Wright because he has trouble speaking publicly, which is a very good reason for his "reclusiveness." I have the same problem with speaking, even to a small group, so it's even hard for me to watch the clip. What did he mean by "truth's protective layers?" I don't know, but then neither do the headcases out there like Hoaglund who insist on interpreting every odd phrase uttered by an official as some kind of whistleblower hint. That crap was getting old ten years ago.

Also, I liked your comments on the Frasier show. I liked Frasier better when he was on Cheers, I think, but the later show was a good and funny study of a household where two distinct social classes overlapped and sometimes collided. The scene with Glenn could have been done any number of ways, but for someone who was around when the guy was King of the (Free) World and "too valuable" to get to fly into space again, seeing him face the audience and deliver that speech is a bit much to write off as "just sitcom fodder." A person of Glenn's stature and background saying something like that as a throw-away joke is hard to swallow. As noted elsewhere, we did not see him respond to the many questions by saying it was just a joke, either.

There has been some discussion of secrecy oaths taken by astronauts. Like many others, I have watched with interest when those guys have spoken, and I think one of the reasons Nasa used test pilots in the program is that all sorts of things were a given with a group like that. None of them would have missed the "official line" on UFOs, or been ignorant of what happens to government flyers who talk about weird encounters. By the time they got to Nasa, that was all second nature to them. Still, I am intrigued by the apparently very careful pushing of the envelope some of them seem to have done publicly. Of course, very carefully pushing the envelope is a big part of the job description of a test pilot.

 

[Kieran]

The video is indeed intriguing, and you have to assume he' was well aware of the nature of what he was saying, and how it would be viewed by some people. Is this proof of some other truth' no, but you have to look at the comedy sketch and say maybe this was his way of overcoming issues that he has sworn to keep secret under agreement.

Most of the comedy was between Frazier and this women. Glenn was opposite in the next booth or studio doing his thing

Break it down. It my nature to be honest and later he said was uncomfortable in saying things he did not want to say' We go on...
People have asked where you alone out there? Response We never gave the real answer... interesting both lines.

We see things and he done a bit of comedy "strange things"

We knew what we saw out there, we couldn't really say anything and the bosses where scared they feared there would be panic on the streets.

The comedy sketch ends and Glenn leaves the other studio. Wait you recording all that' i take that tape.

Very weird stuff. You can look at it many different ways and have your own view to what the video is all about. Here some suggestions... One is was his way of revealing what actually happened or maybe it was just comedy nothing more' nothing less. Scriptwriters who devised his sketch may have been aware of the conspiracy theories that where out there, so in pops Mr Glenn and does his mocking of those very notions?

Former Astronauts have been talking now and in the recent past. We are well aware of there names. The one Astronaut that puzzles me is Buzz Aldrain.His body language and if you look into his eyes not personally, but on video.You can see the Guy is not revealing everything that he knows. I do doubt they landed on the moon , but not everything during that mission was straightforward. Did he see UFOs or other things, i am not sure? but something, i just feel in my bones when i watch him on video.I guess he might be fearful of ruining his reputation, if he speaks openly about different things connected with the moon landing.

 

[Ezechiel]

Here's a clip of Neil Armstrong, who also had something to say about 'truth's protective layers.' I used this clip because it gave Armstrong's speech in full, though it is from a somewhat undesirable source, the clip itself is genuine.

If the explanation for 'good luck, Mr. Gorsky' was disclosed after the death of Mr. Gorsky.... let's hope he can explain 'truth's protective layers' before his death.

Is the truth being protected by governments or is he referring to the levels of complexity that pop up as we dig deeper in scientific quests ?

Can't believe NASA chose such a bad public speaker to accomplish a task of such historical significance..... Or is dishing out enigmatic snippets and incomplete statements alluding to wild possibilities all you can do when you are frustrated by an oath of secrecy ?

Makes no sense ! First astronaut on the moon should have been on tour giving lectures from the first day he got back. He should have been sharing his adventure with everybody instead you get 50 years of silence. Bravo NASA !

No wonder you've got quacks claiming we never went to the moon.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Do keep in mind that they *just barely* pulled off the first moon landing. I doubt very much that anyone at Nasa was the slightest bit interested in the public speaking abilities of the people who went there. Maybe it would have been better if the first one on the moon was a great speaker, but then he might have been the first to die in a crash on the moon, too. I'm glad they sent the guys they did, because not many people could have pulled it off. The real story of that landing is a hair raising wonder. All those guys are heroes no matter what.

 

[Ezechiel]

I'm glad they sent the guys they did, because not many people could have pulled it off. The real story of that landing is a hair raising wonder. All those guys are heroes no matter what.

Absolutely.

Just venting about the protective layers bit, very condescending