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Kevin D. Randle and Jim Moseley 2/12/12

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Sentry

Paranormal Adept
Wow, great show! I also, liked the cameo appearances by Gene and Chris. Kidding aside, it was very interesting to me to hear the guests' conversation, and I found it a nice contrast to the typical format.

As to the discussion, I think my favorite part was Kevin answering the question from SonofaSkunk about the ways our technology had advanced from the study of the ET technology recovered at the Roswell crash wreckage. It was also interesting how both Jim and Kevin both admitted believing in some weird stuff, but not all that other weird stuff!

One comment, on the format of the show. I'd like to see some of the listener's questions incorporated into the main guest section whenever relevant. Sometimes really good ones get tossed just because the topic has already been mentioned. (And yes, I'm mourning the loss of some of my own.)

Again, nice episode- several moments to add to this year's highlight reel!
 
Thanks for writing. Because of the organic way in which conversation flows, we can't always toss a question from a listener in when a guest says something relevant to the question, because we may be taking the discussion elsewhere. For now, we prefer to ask questions as a group, although it's always possible the organic flow might take us in a different direction.
 
Ive just started listening, but on the point of the technology being just one step ahead of ours,
Well if we look at how many tools our own astronauts have lost in space, perhaps there is a protocol thats designed to prevent anything too high tech falling into the hands of less advanced species, A subclause of the prime directive if you like.
 
Good show!! I would like to hear one sometime with just Dr. Randle. Great answer to my question, even though he didn't know who asked it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Chris.
rimshot-1.gif
 
It was interesting that Kevin seemed open to other explanations for the "aliens", and considered time travelers as a possibility. This would answer one of Jim's big complaints, about why aliens would be obsessed with visiting this particular planet. They're just Earthlings from the future, coming back for study and tourism.

I guess then, the Men in Black must be time police, here for damage control, to clean up after accidents and purge any knowledge of visitors from the future. Y'see, it's the MIBs that sabotaged the Roswell investigation, and they're the reason why we've been denied the technology of hoverboards.
 
A great discussion between two well seasoned and informed veterans of ufology. I think Moseley gets points for his wider view of the classic Roswell legend, such as questioning why the government would do anything as transparently suspicious as calling the local mortuary for child sized coffins, etc. There's not much left to dig for in the Roswell case. But documentation has indeed gone missing. Something may yet surface when we least expect it.
 
Gene, even if the "Dream Team" comes up with absolutely zero, the Roswell thing is never going to completely go away. BTW, I'm in the "something happened, just don't know what" camp.
 
Jeez, Roswell is turning into the 'Fermat's last theorem' of ufology (a long standing mathematical puzzle that was thought unsolveable - but it was finally solved quite recently).

Few things about the points brought up here regarding the show.

We don't know that if ET is really visiting, that they are visiting because of an obsession/interest in US.
Of all the reported sightings and the number that must go unreported, very few seem to involve direct interaction or observation of us (humanity). I'm not really sold on abductions being ET either. So for me anyway, there isn't that much evidence that we might be the primary reason for alien visitation and I'm not sure where Jim gets that idea either. I really like hearing from Jim, he will no doubt have forgotten more about ufology than most of us will ever know.

It is a bit human-centric to assume we must be the reason for visitation.

I know Gene also thinks that it is his duty to get as much of Jim's thoughts and knowledge on tape while he is healthy and still young! (Sorry for assuming on your behalf Gene, but I'm sure you agree regarding Jim).
I have often thought most sightings are simply an accident in that the UFO is not there for our benefit to see and photograph. IMO the UFOs are doing something else for their own interest/benefit. The fact UFOs are seen in extremely remote places and not often over very large cities leads me to believe they have an agenda other than showing themselves to us.
I think they neither care or not care whether we see them. We may be insignificant in their priorities. I can think of many reasons to visit this planet. It has an amazing range of life on it. It has abundant water. It has metals and minerals etc. Of course if ET is here and their technology is more advanced than ours (a given I think) then they may be after something we don't even know about that is here around us.

This thing about the distances to other habitable planets I think is just something we cannot comprehend in terms of technology and science. It was not long ago that the idea of circumnavigating the circumference of the world in a day or so would have been akin to a magic carpet ride and certainly thought of us being impossible and no doubt always so for forever and a day. We just could not conceive of powered flight, never mind jet engines that allow speeds hundreds of times the speed of old sailing ships.
To imagine the distances from Europe to Australia being covered in less than a day as a matter of routine for everyday passengers was unthinkable until quite recently.

Scientific conceit is so ingrained even after numerous examples of progress bringing humanity to places once thought impossible. You would think that mainstream science would have learned by now not to make definite predictions of what will never be possilbe. Big mistake!

Yes, physics tends to think there may be certain ways of cheating the fuel/velocity problem - usually with some kind of bending of 3-D space but always the problem in calculation is the energy required.
Once again though, scientific conceit makes scientists think they can predict what we may or may not be able to do in the future. But again, like with speed, we used to think that coal-fired engines were the most efficient and compact way of providing energy for locomotion. We did not know about electricity or batteries, certainly no-one even dreamed that power contained within actual atoms would be unleashed providing staggering amounts of energy from very little mass.
There is almost no point idly trying to make a linear progression of technology today and from that trying to predict what will be possible in 100years. I imagine that some unexpected huge leap in energy will be made, probably by accident and this will completely change what is feasible in the future. Never say never is a good motto for science, cos it is regularly proved correct.

I predict sometime in the future it may be possible to send just the raw information required to create life and intelligence so that one day, just some signal will need to be sent to a host planet, a bit like a seed, that will use the energy and resources of that planet to create life that can then explore that solar system and region. The same can be done again and again, life leap-frogging from system to system.

Back to Roswell for a mintute (groan). I don't think it is a red-herring for the US military to have ordered child-size coffins. In retrospect, possibly it was stupid, but people and military and government employees often make huge mistakes, especially with something new.
It has to be remembered that if there has been a cover-up about alien visitation, then Roswell occured way back at the beginning. People were working blind, writing the book on the whole deal as they went along. Mistakes, and huge ones, are bound to have been made as with all areas of life and over time procedures and rules will have been created in response to events and tweaked and tightened over time as more was learned about how to go about a cover-up on such a scale.
Regardless of what crashed near Roswell, I can see no benefit to issue a press release about captured flying saucers, only for it to be recanted immediately after. At the very least it made the RAAF look inept. If the crash was of a top-secret balloon or aircraft then a suitable cover-story would have been a different balloon/aircraft. Never would it have made sense to use a story about a flying saucer. This is one of the facets to Roswell that make me believe a saucer may indeed have been involved and it was just serious back-tracking that took place as the higher-ups started to appreciate the implications of what they'd said.

I still don't buy the Mogul explanation, simply because all concerned accept there was a large debris field involved and I do not see how a mogul (or any other) balloon can come to such grief that it ends up in thousands of small pieces spread over a wide area. It is the wrong type of material to end up like that from the kind of speeds such apparatus could have reached, even at free-fall. It's terminal velocity would have been way to low. It could only really have been a relatively heavy solid object going very fast to end up the way everyone agrees it ended up?

Good episode and I hope Gene and Chris are already planning when to have Jim back. He no doubt has lots still to say on any number of UFO topics as yet not covered while he has been a guest.
There are so many individual great cases that can be disected in an episode.
 
It was interesting that Kevin seemed open to other explanations for the "aliens", and considered time travelers as a possibility. This would answer one of Jim's big complaints, about why aliens would be obsessed with visiting this particular planet. They're just Earthlings from the future, coming back for study and tourism.

I guess then, the Men in Black must be time police, here for damage control, to clean up after accidents and purge any knowledge of visitors from the future. Y'see, it's the MIBs that sabotaged the Roswell investigation, and they're the reason why we've been denied the technology of hoverboards.

Logically, if time travel is possible at all, then no matter how long it takes to develop it (assuming we don't destroy ourselves) we can expect visitations at almost any point in history. One remaining concern though is how risky it would be regarding the timeline. Long ago, I read a series of novels about the Time Patrol by Poul Anderson. They are pretty good.
 
Agreed regarding time travel. Even if from our point of view it is invented 50,000 years from now, there would presumably be nothing stopping a time-traveller from coming back to now or whenever.

Stephen Hawking's argument that if time travel were possible we would already have time tourists to prove it so. I do not think this argument neccessarily stands as there could indeed be a rule or something that forbids such travellers from announcing they are from another time. If humans look and speak the same whenever time travel is invented, they could indeed be here but they would just appear to be one of us.

The MIB phenomena I think, if true, has aspects to it that kind of indicate time travel. Their seeming ability to be around someone who has just sighted or reported a UFO without enough time for the info to reach them and them to travel to the witness etc makes me think they 'insert' themselves at the appropriate time. They often are reported to come from nowhere and disappear quickly too - which would be possible if time travelling. Also this whole thing about their dress and cars being not quite right, I can imagine an historian from the present going back 500 years and not quite getting the clothing correct - not enough to really stand out but weird enough for people to pass comment on perhaps?

Also because of the grandfather paradox, I tend to think any time-traveller changing things in the past would be inserting themselves in a different universe in which the new history has always been so. The infinite universe theory can account for all paradoxes and also I believe every single choice/decision we make puts us on a slightly differing path than if we had made a slightly different choice. All these differing paths are actually different universes, created at the instant a fork in the road of choice is made.
I can picture another me who did everything today exactly as I have until choosing to write this post. Some other me did something else and while the main direction of our lives may be the same more or less, they are still different and possibly there is another me right now in another universe who is doing something a little different?
The possibilities are infinite, but luckily so is the number of universes in which to live them!

On a slightly different thought - I imagine there is a mathematical theory explaining the following though I do not know it.
Are there differing scales of 'infinity'?
I mean, if there are an infinite number of whole numbers (integers) then I sort of think then there must be an even larger number of fractions! If you think of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 - that is 10 whole numbers, but think of the infinite amount of fractions between just two of those integers?

There are an infinte number of integers but for every couple of integers there is an infinite amount of fractions just between those two integers, never mind the rest of possible fractions!

The mind boggles (great word too!)
 
About different levels of infinity, your intuitions are correct.
Transfinite Numbers
Regarding the parallel universes, I remember a long time ago reading in Scientific American that time travel would have to be between parallel worlds. That may reflect restrictions imposed by the grandfather paradox, etc.

I also like your thoughts about the MIBs.
 
like the term 'transfinite'! gets more complicated than I had imagined. i started thinking about these things not at first about integers and fractions but to do with infinite universes. if a universe is infinitely big, but there are infinite numbers of universes then one number has to be larger than the other.
i am still really unsure about whether our universe is considered infinite in size? i always thought there was a finite amount of matter in the known universe and that must be the case otherwise it would take forever for the big bang to be completed. but if that is the case, then unless there is infinite space between the matter observable, then there must be a finite size to the universe. and if that is the case, what is outside the universe?
i know what the physics answer is to this in that 'nothing' exists but the universe so it cannot have an edge, it must occupy at least another dimension of direction that is not observable by us. i don't think any human brain can comprehend more than 3 dimensions. if i were to travel in one direction, after how much travelling and fraction of the matter in our universe going by would i come back on myself?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

i wonder if the human brain would go mad instantly if it were afforded one glimpse seeing another dimension on top of our 3?
 
Jeez, Roswell is turning into the 'Fermat's last theorem' of ufology (a long standing mathematical puzzle that was thought unsolveable - but it was finally solved quite recently).

Few things about the points brought up here regarding the show.

We don't know that if ET is really visiting, that they are visiting because of an obsession/interest in US.
Of all the reported sightings and the number that must go unreported, very few seem to involve direct interaction or observation of us (humanity). I'm not really sold on abductions being ET either. So for me anyway, there isn't that much evidence that we might be the primary reason for alien visitation and I'm not sure where Jim gets that idea either. I really like hearing from Jim, he will no doubt have forgotten more about ufology than most of us will ever know.

It is a bit human-centric to assume we must be the reason for visitation.

I know Gene also thinks that it is his duty to get as much of Jim's thoughts and knowledge on tape while he is healthy and still young! (Sorry for assuming on your behalf Gene, but I'm sure you agree regarding Jim).
I have often thought most sightings are simply an accident in that the UFO is not there for our benefit to see and photograph. IMO the UFOs are doing something else for their own interest/benefit. The fact UFOs are seen in extremely remote places and not often over very large cities leads me to believe they have an agenda other than showing themselves to us.
I think they neither care or not care whether we see them. We may be insignificant in their priorities. I can think of many reasons to visit this planet. It has an amazing range of life on it. It has abundant water. It has metals and minerals etc. Of course if ET is here and their technology is more advanced than ours (a given I think) then they may be after something we don't even know about that is here around us.

This thing about the distances to other habitable planets I think is just something we cannot comprehend in terms of technology and science. It was not long ago that the idea of circumnavigating the circumference of the world in a day or so would have been akin to a magic carpet ride and certainly thought of us being impossible and no doubt always so for forever and a day. We just could not conceive of powered flight, never mind jet engines that allow speeds hundreds of times the speed of old sailing ships.
To imagine the distances from Europe to Australia being covered in less than a day as a matter of routine for everyday passengers was unthinkable until quite recently.

Scientific conceit is so ingrained even after numerous examples of progress bringing humanity to places once thought impossible. You would think that mainstream science would have learned by now not to make definite predictions of what will never be possilbe. Big mistake!

Yes, physics tends to think there may be certain ways of cheating the fuel/velocity problem - usually with some kind of bending of 3-D space but always the problem in calculation is the energy required.
Once again though, scientific conceit makes scientists think they can predict what we may or may not be able to do in the future. But again, like with speed, we used to think that coal-fired engines were the most efficient and compact way of providing energy for locomotion. We did not know about electricity or batteries, certainly no-one even dreamed that power contained within actual atoms would be unleashed providing staggering amounts of energy from very little mass.
There is almost no point idly trying to make a linear progression of technology today and from that trying to predict what will be possible in 100years. I imagine that some unexpected huge leap in energy will be made, probably by accident and this will completely change what is feasible in the future. Never say never is a good motto for science, cos it is regularly proved correct.

I predict sometime in the future it may be possible to send just the raw information required to create life and intelligence so that one day, just some signal will need to be sent to a host planet, a bit like a seed, that will use the energy and resources of that planet to create life that can then explore that solar system and region. The same can be done again and again, life leap-frogging from system to system.

Back to Roswell for a mintute (groan). I don't think it is a red-herring for the US military to have ordered child-size coffins. In retrospect, possibly it was stupid, but people and military and government employees often make huge mistakes, especially with something new.
It has to be remembered that if there has been a cover-up about alien visitation, then Roswell occured way back at the beginning. People were working blind, writing the book on the whole deal as they went along. Mistakes, and huge ones, are bound to have been made as with all areas of life and over time procedures and rules will have been created in response to events and tweaked and tightened over time as more was learned about how to go about a cover-up on such a scale.
Regardless of what crashed near Roswell, I can see no benefit to issue a press release about captured flying saucers, only for it to be recanted immediately after. At the very least it made the RAAF look inept. If the crash was of a top-secret balloon or aircraft then a suitable cover-story would have been a different balloon/aircraft. Never would it have made sense to use a story about a flying saucer. This is one of the facets to Roswell that make me believe a saucer may indeed have been involved and it was just serious back-tracking that took place as the higher-ups started to appreciate the implications of what they'd said.

I still don't buy the Mogul explanation, simply because all concerned accept there was a large debris field involved and I do not see how a mogul (or any other) balloon can come to such grief that it ends up in thousands of small pieces spread over a wide area. It is the wrong type of material to end up like that from the kind of speeds such apparatus could have reached, even at free-fall. It's terminal velocity would have been way to low. It could only really have been a relatively heavy solid object going very fast to end up the way everyone agrees it ended up?

Good episode and I hope Gene and Chris are already planning when to have Jim back. He no doubt has lots still to say on any number of UFO topics as yet not covered while he has been a guest.
There are so many individual great cases that can be disected in an episode.

Amen on all points. Preach it brother!
 
Great show. Looking forward to the next one. Just a head's up though: I don't Kevin D. Randle's phd is legit. I was intrigued by his answer about distance learning phds when he answered that question toward the end. It's not legit in academic circles and I don't think Randle's is either...He could be a great UFOlogist and researcher. No offense. It's just that the credential isn't real.
 
Yeah, I don't know how it works Stateside but in the UK, a PhD is something that takes at the very least a couple of years, you must add something original to the field of study and there must be peer reviewing and testing of the candidate. I know extremely well-educated people who spend a long time doing their PhD but had to give it up because of it over-running on time, them running out of money, the research not going where they intended etc.
I just cannot see how anything done distance-learning style can compare with a standard PhD.

No offence to Kevin Randle - he may indeed have earned something in that way that gets called a PhD but I would not put it in the same category as the PhD's attained by my tutors at university.
I am glad that Kevin did not try to hide the manner of this qualification. I think he probably realises there might be some controversy over whether it has the same value as a traditional PhD. Unlike Imbrogno, Kevin is not trying to claim an academic background he does not have. In that sense I am perfectly satisfied with Kevin's integrity.
 
I perfectly understand, goggsmackay: I appreciate anyone who's serious about studying any subject including unconventional ones, of course. However, the PhD that Kevin holds and describes in this podcast isn't legitimate. It's not a matter of it being stateside or not nor that it's not as prestigious as Harvard's. It's just not legitimate. There isn't any real one for distance learning that can be gained without several years investment in the US, UK or anywhere. Kevin Randle shouldn't be called doctor at any rate. He should be respected for the caliber of his research, but not with that credential. And yes, I do know several PhDs Stateside.
 
Yeah, agreed Opinerdude. I don't think the 'Dr' is applicable. But as I said, at least Kevins honesty is not in question as he has not attempted to pass himself off as anything other than an investigator who got some distance learning title whiich is not the same as what we understand of that title 'PhD'
 
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