Lest We Forget

[stonehart]

Just thought I would post this before I hit the road to Auckland for work.

 

[Wade]

Happy Anzac Day to all the kiwis and ozzies out there. I have a friend from Brisbane whose made several trips to the gallipoli peninsula.

I guess this is for mike

By the way I always wondered if there was a reason why the anzac memorial was located out in alice springs instead of canberra. Perhaps because the hill provides some aspect of what the guys were up against?

 

[Randall]

Memorial day slogans like "Lest We Forget" are ironic because it seems to me that people have forgotten the real significance behind them. This slogan was introduced at the end of a poem called "For The Fallen" which was written in response to World War One which was billed as "The War To End War", another slogan which later became recognized as wartime propaganda. So if we are going to insist on not forgetting, then lest we not forget the horror of war and lest we not forget the propaganda that goes along with getting us sucked into yet another one. If we do, then we have most certainly forgotten and at the same time cheapened the deaths of those who have fallen.

 

[Bob Watson]

no matter the nationality: the price of freedom is often paid in blood. never forget those who died so we can enjoy the fruits of the tree of liberty!

it's so easy to forget them the old bob's of this world went off to war. but we know
it's not politions with the comprimse and ploys
that won us the FREEDOM our nation now enjoys..

 

[Decker]

To all of our Aussie and Kiwi friends ... I have not forgotten.

Decker

 

[Randall]

no matter the nationality: the price of freedom is often paid in blood. never forget those who died so we can enjoy the fruits of the tree of liberty!

That's just more propaganda from a purely one sided perspective. The fact is that all those who died and suffered on both sides of all the wars are victims and they should all be remembered for the sacrifice they were either forced or lured into making, not for anyone's freedom, but for the politicians and the industrial war machine. Had nobody been conscripted or lured by the propaganda to volunteer, there would have been no war in the first place and nobody would have died in the name it.

 

[stonehart]

Memorial day slogans like "Lest We Forget" are ironic because it seems to me that people have forgotten the real significance behind them. This slogan was introduced at the end of a poem called "For The Fallen" which was written in response to World War One which was billed as "The War To End War", another slogan which later became recognized as wartime propaganda. So if we are going to insist on not forgetting, then lest we not forget the horror of war and lest we not forget the propaganda that goes along with getting us sucked into yet another one. If we do, then we have most certainly forgotten and at the same time cheapened the deaths of those who have fallen.

I understand where you are coming from here Ufology.

ANZAC Day for the common kiwi is about remembering those who were lost in conflicts that for whatever reason they felt compelled to fight in, it is a day where politics is put aside and we remember those that died because politics and reason had failed.

I guess you need to be a kiwi to understand what the words "lest we forget" mean to us as a nation, but in a nut shell it is no slogan to most of us because we are such a small population you can imagine that both wars had a significant impact on us.

Yes I know that many nations suffered in both wars, but if you drive around say rural Canterbury and look at the memorials you get the idea very quickly the level of damage that ww1 alone did to the local population. Some of these towns at the time had a population of less than 200 people and you see 60 or 70 names on these memorials... yeah near half the population gone in a war.

I guess unless you are part of the community that those words could just sound like a slogan, but to me it reminds me of my Great Grandfather who was in both wars, my Grandfather who was in WW2, and the many other family members who have been in the armed forces.

But above all for me it reminds me of the supreme failure of politics and rational thinking. Wars a wasteful, stupid, and almost never do you see those that started them with their propaganda and political floundering actually fight in them.

But should we have fought in WW2 to stop Hitler? ... Well in short yes is the answer, for even after politics had failed and the rise of Hitler due to the economic beating Germany got at the end of WW1 can be placed soundly at our own feet (well the bankers feet, funny how somethings never change) it was the right thing to do.

I often feel that it is the common people, the every day Joe that so often has to clean up the mess left by those that would be our betters... reminds me of my Grandfather "never trust a politician, never ever"

Reminds me also of a Proudhon quote:

To be governed is to be watched over, inspected, spied on, directed, legislated at, regulated, docketed, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, assessed, weighed, censored, ordered about, by men who have neither the right, nor the knowledge, nor the virtue. ... To be governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction, noted, registered, enrolled, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under the pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, trained, ransomed, exploited, monopolized, extorted, squeezed, mystified, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, despised, harassed, tracked, abused, clubbed, disarmed, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and, to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

Anyway I am ranting.

Peace all as always.

 

[Wade]

This forum can always use "rants" like that one.

 

[stonehart]

This forum can always use "rants" like that one.

hahaha thanks Spooky

Been a long weekend and not had much of a chance to get on the forums and read.... felt I had to rant then

 

[mike]

I got up at 4:00am , put on a suit and tie, and attended the local dawn service

 

[Randall]

... But should we have fought in WW2 to stop Hitler? ... Anyway I am ranting ... Peace all as always.

Hey ... we're both ranting ... It's OK ... and I'm glad you didn't get all offended like some people do. None of my comments are intended to tarnish the memories of the victims of war, be they those who volunteered or otherwise. On the Hitler question, I'm glad you brought it up because Hitler is an almost perfect example of a politician who used governments and industries on both sides of the conflict to fund and fuel his campaign. He was also among the first to make the most of mass media, including radio, television, and high powered P.A. systems to put on political "rock god like" performances that sucked people into the maniacal scheme that he was himself largely only a front-man for.

The men in shadows behind the façade who were pulling the strings were in positions of financial power and political influence. Together they sucked the German people into a war that led to horrific casualties for their people ... many of whom didn't believe in the war or Hitler. So again, had they not been able suck anyone in, there would have been no war. Why do you think that the Jewish community became prime targets? Not because they were "Jewish", but because many of them were involved in business and finance and had principles and they could see where the money was going. They could see what the real agenda was, and therefore represented a threat to the "plan".

This isn't conspiracy talk. It's all come out in history, but you have to dig a bit. When you do you'll find that the Bank of England quietly participated in funding Hitler, and that the industrialists, particularly Farben were the real drivers of the war machine, and yet few were ever tried for war crimes. Everyone who died was a victim of their scheme, including all the innocent civilians who were killed in the leveling of Berlin and other cities in wave after wave of bombing. I've worked with both German and English people who were in WW2, and the stories they tell aren't like the glorified versions we get from Hollywood. Nobody "died for our freedom" ... they died as pawns of politicians and greedy financiers and industrialists who ran the war machine ... and lest we forget that, or face getting sucked in yet again. Let's not allow those deaths to become meaningless by allowing that to happen ... rant ... rant ... rant ...

 

[Bob Watson]

Also a sad fact henry ford charles linburg and GM funded hitler.. the united states locked up evey japaness person they could get ahold of...and millions died from the axis countrys...war is hell grant said...I agree...

 

[mike]

And sometimes its the only currency, with which we can purchase peace.

 

[stonehart]

I have a much tougher skin than that Ufology and I am prone to rant from time to time.

Point that some miss here at the forums (those posting in this thread are not offenders), that it is opinion and debate and never take it personally.

Oh and on a side note I have German and Austrian ancestry and the Irony is during the first world war the family would have been fighting on different sides.... sort of makes you think that dose it not?