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Lonnie Zamora Has Died!

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Christopher O'Brien

Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
Lonnie+Zamora.jpg
By Frank Warren
The UFO Chronicles
11-4-09
"Veteran researcher, and lead investigator of the Socorro Incident, Ray Stanford has informed The UFO Chronicles [and others, including me], that former Socorro, New Mexico police officer and preeminent eyewitness to one of the most well-known UFO cases in history, "Lonnie Zamora" died Monday night of heart failure. Ray received direct confirmation from the Socorro Police Department."

Ray also had these comments in an email to me this morning: "It is with great sadness that I have learned that Lonnie Zamore has just died, and, alas, in the totally inappropriate and dishonest shadow of aspersions being cast by upon his absolutely outstanding reliability as a witness, by claims he was fooled by a balloon flying off directly the wind, preceded by pyrotechnics!'"

Is it possible that Zamora's death could be connected to this ill-advised innuendo put forth by Anthony Bragalia? The timing is highly suspect, his death coming the day after Bragalia's most recent "Part 3" of his Socorro Hoax claims were published. For shame!:mad:
 
Oh no, VERY sad to hear this. I always admired Officer Zamora. He was a person of integrity and very brave for first reporting, then standing by his account for all those years. He didn’t try to overtly profit from what happened to him and from what I know of the case, seems to have just wanted to live his life and not seek “fame and fortune”. To me, if you had a lineup of reputable UFO witnesses, his picture would always be there.
<o></o><o></o>
As for Bragalia the tripe he is throwing out, I hope he is happy with himself. I’d like to have a little discussion with him, one-on-one. :mad:<o></o>
 
This is sad news, but can hardly come as a surprise given Zamora's age.

As for Bragalia, yes, his stuff is clearly crap (and Bragalia a bit of an unstable stalker type, if one can judge by the e-mails he's sent me because I dared to criticize him), but any intimation that he drove Zamora to an early grave is a bit much. Zamora had weathered worse over the years.

Paul
 
paulkimball said:
… but any intimation that he drove Zamora to an early grave is a bit much. Zamora had weathered worse over the years.
Paul
Click to expand...
I disagree. Zamora's integrity and observational skills have never been the issue until Bragalia's revisionist mystery-mongering. Zamora was a rock of Gibraltar at an important bedrock case for nuts and bolts ufology but he carried the stigma for over 45 years. It wouldn't surprise me if somehow this controversy (which he knew about, btw) and his death were somehow beyond merely coincidental. When your his age, it probably doesn't take much to send you along. The timing is unfortunate, at the very least…
 
I'm very sorry to hear of Lonnie Zamora's passing. I'll reserve judgement on whether or not Bragalia's articles may have played a part in his passing, but I hope, given this sad news, that Bragalia stops trying to further tarnish Mr. Zamora's reputation. Everything about the Socorro case, for me, points to Mr. Zamora being a credible and reliable witness. Of course, this doesn't prove he witnessed an ET craft and beings - but he doesn't sound like the kind of man who would fall for a hoax, either, even an elaborate one. The Socorro case is the first UFO case that made me sit up and really take notice. RIP, Lonnie Zamora.
 
christopher o'brien said:
I disagree. Zamora's integrity and observational skills have never been the issue until Bragalia's revisionist mystery-mongering.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's not accurate. Almost from the beginning some ardent debunkers intimated that Zamora had been involved in a hoax, in one case the suggestion being that he and the mayor were trying to cash in on the UFO craze and make Socorro into some sort of tourist destination (I think that one was the late Phil Klass, but I may be mistaken). In Bragalia's latest version, he never questioned Zamora's personal integrity, but rather stated that he had been the victim of a hoax.

I think Bragalia's research is shoddy, and his conclusions laughable, at least without a lot more evidence, but to say he might have had a hand in Zamora's death is, I think, both in poor taste and just as ridiculous, perhaps even more so.

Paul
 
Bragalia at least put up a recognition of Zamora's passing. It certainly doesn't seem like he has anything against the guy. It's more about the lines of "evidence" he found that leads him to believe it was a hoax. I don't think he intentionally tried to cause Zamora any type of harm.
 
My first reaction to the idea that the recent hoax articles might have played a part in Zamoras death was that it was a ridiculous notion. But thinking about it a little more, now I guess maybe it was possible. When you get to that age little things can have a big affect on psychological well-being. And that can have a follow on impact on physical health.

As far as Bragalias 'research' and articles. Well I dont even bother reading his stuff any more. Like I said in some other thread, for Bragalia 2 + 2 always seems to equal 100. The conclusions he draws are mostly just absurd and often the evidence is only the slightest bit suggestive of those conclusions.
 
GreetingsTClaeys,

TClaeys said:
Bragalia at least put up a recognition of Zamora's passing. It certainly doesn't seem like he has anything against the guy. It's more about the lines of "evidence" he found that leads him to believe it was a hoax. I don't think he intentionally tried to cause Zamora any type of harm.
Click to expand...

Point of fact: Bragalia hasn't found (by defintion) any evidence. He has churned up written and oral hearsay, and wrapped it in innuendo and speculation, while all the time spouting proclamation.

Fortunately for Tony, in this thing we call Ufology, most have short memories, and if Bragalia ever stops rehashing this nonsense, he "might" be able to recover from it.

Cheers,
Frank
 
Thanks Frank-

That's why I put evidence in quotes.

In the meantime I wonder if you would or have somewhere commented on the (I don't know what else to call it) "indicators?" that the event was hoaxed. Particularly the charred cardboard (I never knew this was found and seems potentially significant). I also didn't know that numerous footprints (as the FBI agent said "bigfooted teenager") were found as well.

The "experts" calling the burnt creosote "classic to pyrotechnics" and entirely dissimilar to what one would expect from "an object that blasts off by rocket or jet propulsion" is less convincing. But the argument seems to be that some type of propulsion described would have burnt the entire bush not just half of it. I don't know about that.

He also states that investigators didn't even consider the possibility of a hoax perpetrated by NM Tech students. Of course I believe this is BS because my understanding is that they DID do this and looked into the hoax possibility from many angles.

Either way if you could point me to some information regarding the charred cardboard and the footprints I would be thankful. Are there pictures of this cardboard or of the footprints or mere references??
 
Evenin T,

TClaeys said:
Thanks Frank-

That's why I put evidence in quotes.

In the meantime I wonder if you would or have somewhere commented on the (I don't know what else to call it) "indicators?" that the event was hoaxed. Particularly the charred cardboard (I never knew this was found and seems potentially significant). I also didn't know that numerous footprints (as the FBI agent said "bigfooted teenager") were found as well.
Click to expand...

In an under an hour after Lonnie witnessed the UFO there were "4" other people on site" 3 police offers and a local rancher. One of the officers took pictures before the site was contaminated. "There were no 'large footprints (prior to contamination)." In the landing site there was were 4 landing gear; marks made from presumably a ladder or something similar and the "small footprints."

The incident took place in the ravine and there was an ample ample of paper particulate (trash) which got scorched and burned upon the craft coming in for a landing and taking off again.

TClaeys said:
The "experts" calling the burnt creosote "classic to pyrotechnics" and entirely dissimilar to what one would expect from "an object that blasts off by rocket or jet propulsion" is less convincing. But the argument seems to be that some type of propulsion described would have burnt the entire bush not just half of it. I don't know about that.
Click to expand...

Lonnie Zamora, nor any of the 4 men to show up later ever saw or smelled anything like pyrotechnics; moreover Zamora never saw any smoke (in contrast to the official AF report). Anyone that has experienced fireworks can verify the specific smells and smoke that accompanies them.

Additionally, Lonnie recounted the flame as primarily "blue."

The ground, burnt brush and papers were all analyzed and "no conventional source of ignition could be found," e.g., pyrotechnics, rocket or jet fuel, propane etc.

TClaeys said:
He also states that investigators didn't even consider the possibility of a hoax perpetrated by NM Tech students. Of course I believe this is BS because my understanding is that they DID do this and looked into the hoax possibility from many angles.
Click to expand...

This again is incorrect; the hoax notion has been with the event since the beginning; although the "experimental craft theory" has been more predominant. Also NM Tech was contacted at the time.

TClaeys said:
Either way if you could point me to some information regarding the charred cardboard and the footprints I would be thankful. Are there pictures of this cardboard or of the footprints or mere references??
Click to expand...

There are no pictures the paper.

The best, most thorough report/investigation done on this event is culminated in Ray Stanford's book, "Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry." The first order of business for any investigator trying to overturn the the conclusions (UFO) of the official investigations of the Air Force, Army Intelligence, FBI and civilian agencies i.e., NICAP (Ray Stanford) and APRO, would be to address the evidence already on the table--Tony has failed to do that.

Cheers,
Frank
 
I'd like to see something from a credible source, which Ray Stanford is not, that Mr. Zamora has actually passed. No mention from local media, not even an obituary. I understand Mr. Zamora is not Michael Jackson, but there should be something.

http://dml.cmnh.org/1999Feb/msg00416.html

http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/WORLDS.htm

http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srdiscernment.html

http://www.nvcc.edu/home/cbentley/geoblog/2009/05/ray-stanfords-dino-tracks.html

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0345355105/?tag=rockoids-20

http://www.tikaro.com/2008/01/my-dad-the-ufo-hunter.html
 
Siani said:
Why the heck would Stanford make something like that up?
Click to expand...

Why would he claim he was in a car that was teleported 37 miles or that he channeled a spirit that revealed the secrets of Fatima to him or that he could summon UFOs or give psychic readings?

I find it most interesting that he's presented by some in the UFO field as a distinguished researcher and scientist but they always fail to mention these other pursuits.

He's not credible and I remain unconvinced of Mr. Zamora's passing until it is confirmed independently.
 
Loren Coleman has stated that Zamora's death was confirmed to Stanford by the Socorro Police Department:

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/

I'm sure that should be easy enough to verify:

Socorro Police Department

407 Center St, Socorro, NM, United States
<NOBR>(575) 835-1883</NOBR>‎.
 
Excude me, "Frank Stalter", but you just signed up here to make these posts about Stanford falsely claiming that Zamora has passed? I don't think so. I'll make the call tomorrow, but until then, you're banned from posting.

dB
 
David Biedny said:
Excude me, "Frank Stalter", but you just signed up here to make these posts about Stanford falsely claiming that Zamora has passed? I don't think so. I'll make the call tomorrow, but until then, you're banned from posting.

dB
Click to expand...

Thanks David — THAT was weird! He does bring up an interesting subject i.e., Ray's documented involvement personally in many intriguing scenarios during his earlier years. The teleported car crash event (90 feet) mentioned in Mishlove's book is amazingly well-documented, including court records and transcripts, photos etc. One of the more amazing examples of a truly inexplicable occurrence. Ray's experiences with Uri Geller are among the most tricksterish cases I can think off... I'm saving all this "non-ufological" subject matter for the second book of conversations w/ Ray.
 
Why would someone post that Zamora was dead unless he was. Then somebody else says no that is false information.Nobody is that sick to post this type of post. I would like to believe that the information got was true to what he believed at the time, it does not matter if turns out either true or false, as long as the post came honestly.

As for Ray stanford, Questions need to be asked, but i am holding back in judgement further just for one reason.David said he was going to visit Ray to see the information collected over the years, videos and photographs. Ray has made some claims on Greg Bishop Show to this effect. Now if you have such evidence, why has it never come out never, but like i said, this is all i will say until we get more feedback from David in regards to the issue.
 
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