Looking for doped-up ufologists

[Zebra or the Logos]

Anybody know of any ufologists that advocate for the use of entheogens to communicate with entities or have contact? I am looking for people from the ufo field only. Thank you.

What two extremely doped-up dudes not within the ufo field have to say about this.

 

[Burnt State]

I am unaware of any ufologists advocating such things. If anything, there are the entheogenic explorers who then make connections back to the UFO as pyschadelic representative, or as with Strassman's experiments, there's some investigation with contact with aliens while flying on DMT.

I did run into this crossover space, but you've probably already been here:
Ayahuasca, DMT and UFOs

 

[Han]

You may be interested in the work of DR Richard Sauder.

I know that he has used ayahuasca, and the last I heard he had a legal case against a Shaman.

here are two interviews on the Paracast:

December 23, 2007 — Dr. Richard Sauder | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

March 27, 2011 — Richard Sauder, Ph.D. | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

 

[Stagger Lee]

April 19th 1943. Chemist Albert Hoffman accidently ingested (spilled) lsd, leading to the first most interesting "bicycle ride home" in human history. Without doing a google search- I know he lived to be a very old man, always advocating the responsible use of "his product" which has destroyed countless ego's forcing the user to look at himself and the world around him in ways that would otherwise never occur to a person. I miss my own "bicycle rides home" but, I found out the hard way that old saying "You can't go home" applies to me, as far as trying to relive my youth in that fashion.

Han, thanks for those para links. Gotta check em out soon.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I am a big McKenna fan, and although I don't agree w/ everything he has to say about ufos and any links to psychedelics, I do feel that these entheogens are a completely underutilized potential investigative tool. My first sighting experience (1979) occurred in New Paltz after a Gentle Giant conference while I was while under the influence of a heavy dose of 'shrooms. I was the first to notice the group of small pinpoint lights high in the sky. I doubt I would have noticed them unless I had been tripping. There were seven of us, three were tripping four were not. Everyone appeared to experience the exact same thing with no deviation. The experience occurred after the three of us had been zinged four about 4 or 5 hours, so we were on the wax, but still pretty zipped out. The rest of the experience I have mentioned a number of times on the show, but this is the first time I have mentioned the detail of some of us being under the influence...

 

[Han]

I am a big McKenna fan, and although I don't agree w/ everything he has to say about ufos and any links to psychedelics, I do feel that these entheogens are a completely underutilized potential investigative tool. My first sighting experience (1979) occurred in New Paltz after a Gentle Giant conference while I was while under the influence of a heavy dose of 'shrooms. I was the first to notice the group of small pinpoint lights high in the sky. I doubt I would have noticed them unless I had been tripping. There were seven of us, three were tripping four were not. Everyone appeared to experience the exact same thing with no deviation. The experience occurred after the three of us had been zinged four about 4 or 5 hours, so we were on the wax, but still pretty zipped out. The rest of the experience I have mentioned a number of times on the show, but this is the first time I have mentioned the detail of some of us being under the influence...

I bet there are some people sitting there smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee or eating donuts, that think there behaviour is not influenced by stimulants. nothing could be further from the truth, we are constantly under the influence.

There was a recent study that described the use of smartphones as similar to taking drugs, in terms of the affect on the users brain!

article here:
App addicts: has your smartphone become a drug? | TechRadar

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

I am unaware of any ufologists advocating such things. If anything, there are the entheogenic explorers who then make connections back to the UFO as pyschadelic representative, or as with Strassman's experiments, there's some investigation with contact with aliens while flying on DMT.

I did run into this crossover space, but you've probably already been here:
Ayahuasca, DMT and UFOs

Excellent! I hadn't seen this site but I am aware of Luna and Amaringo. This must be the next book I buy, the images are amazing. I think Amaringo is featured in several Aya documentaries, I'll look for them...

Thank you for this as the experiences and perspectives of these "ufologists" must be considered, promoted and advocated for.

Amazon listing for book:
Ayahuasca Visions: The Religious Iconography of a Peruvian Shaman

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

You may be interested in the work of DR Richard Sauder.

I know that he has used ayahuasca, and the last I heard he had a legal case against a Shaman.

here are two interviews on the Paracast:

December 23, 2007 — Dr. Richard Sauder | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

March 27, 2011 — Richard Sauder, Ph.D. | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

Another excellent post! Thank you! I am peripherally aware of Dr. Sauder mostly from his Ecuadorian legal issues and I think I may have heard him interviewed before on underground bases (his voice is familiar). I listened to the two paracasts that you linked, and I think he's a very interesting guy. I certainly echo his environmental and nuke concerns and applaud his work in that regard. I found some threads on here that resulted from his most recent paracast interview, I won't bother linking them as they are full of ad hominem attacks and the usual intolerant nonsense. I also found some information as to his legal issues which can be found by googling his name. Anyways, I can't tell if his interest in entheogens is predicated on anything other than his own personal vision questing and he doesn't (publicly) seem to have much interest in the use of entheogens as a investigative ufological tool. The sacraments and shamanic instruction he has received seems to have greatly reinforced his environmental and conspiratorial concerns as it is known to do. I do gather that he has much more to say about psychedelic shamanism's potential as an investigative tool and the transmissions he has received regarding machine intelligence and the planet but he's not saying. He's pretty cautious in that regard and for good reason. Thanks again, Han, for this. I very much appreciate you thinking of this for me.

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

April 19th 1943. Chemist Albert Hoffman accidently ingested (spilled) lsd, leading to the first most interesting "bicycle ride home" in human history. Without doing a google search- I know he lived to be a very old man, always advocating the responsible use of "his product" which has destroyed countless ego's forcing the user to look at himself and the world around him in ways that would otherwise never occur to a person. I miss my own "bicycle rides home" but, I found out the hard way that old saying "You can't go home" applies to me, as far as trying to relive my youth in that fashion.

Han, thanks for those para links. Gotta check em out soon.

Thank you for this. You raise an important point and it recalls the famous Alan Watts quote:
"When you get the message, hang up the phone."

Alan Watts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

I am a big McKenna fan, and although I don't agree w/ everything he has to say about ufos and any links to psychedelics, I do feel that these entheogens are a completely underutilized potential investigative tool. My first sighting experience (1979) occurred in New Paltz after a Gentle Giant conference while I was while under the influence of a heavy dose of 'shrooms. I was the first to notice the group of small pinpoint lights high in the sky. I doubt I would have noticed them unless I had been tripping. There were seven of us, three were tripping four were not. Everyone appeared to experience the exact same thing with no deviation. The experience occurred after the three of us had been zinged four about 4 or 5 hours, so we were on the wax, but still pretty zipped out. The rest of the experience I have mentioned a number of times on the show, but this is the first time I have mentioned the detail of some of us being under the influence...

Thank you, Chris, for this thoughtful reply. I am thrilled to read of your experience. Would you consider doing a Paracast on this topic? I would greatly encourage you to do so as I certainly agree that "entheogens are a completely underutilized potential investigative tool". I believe that there is a growing community of people who believe this as well and we need to try to draw them out as they (we) are intensely private about these matters.

I started a thread detailing an experience of my own.

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

I bet there are some people sitting there smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee or eating donuts, that think there behaviour is not influenced by stimulants. nothing could be further from the truth, we are constantly under the influence.

There was a recent study that described the use of smartphones as similar to taking drugs, in terms of the affect on the users brain!

article here:
App addicts: has your smartphone become a drug? | TechRadar

Ha! I have no doubt about that. You make a good, solid point.




We are drugs.

DMT Found in the Pineal Gland of Live Rats

http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pineal-DMT.pdf

Endogenous Hallucinogen Assay | Cottonwood Research Foundation, Inc.

Cannabinoid receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Burnt State]

We are drugs.

Interesting. We just finished a conversation around the dinner table, as the 13 year old asked when they could try alcohol, about the various effects, impacts, consequences and reasons around the consumption of various substances, along with the production of natural drugs in the body produced through exertion or meditation.

 

[Last Laugh]

I remember that many of the times I used psilocybin mushrooms I seemed to be connecting to what seemed to be ET. It seemed like the the mushrooms opened a channel for communication and I had a number of apparent downloads regarding the alien involvement with the history of our planet.

Basically, the story was that life was first seeded here from space, almost like a spore that started the whole process of evolution on earth. Then much later, I got the sense of a more advanced traveler - very much like the conquistadors, looking for wealth and conquest. These beings came upon the earth and saw a beautiful, untouched planet, decided to stay and colonize, very much like Europeans in the new world.

The way of life of these travelers was different than those that had evolved here naturally. Agriculture, livestock, and the walls of cities were the way of the travelers, a way of life suited for traveling in space, as opposed to the more hunter gatherer style that was naturally adapted to the planet.

I'm not sure what to make of these downloads, I don't treat them literally, as in many ways these are very archetypal stories. It did seem like I was getting information from somewhere, though. It felt different than my imagination. Of course I was tripping....

Towards the end of my entheogenic experiments, I started to feel like the mushrooms were the aliens, not just a way to talk to them.

I never had these types of experiences with other entheogens, fwiw.

I have some doubts as to the possibility of using entheogens as bona fide research tools, due to the overwhelming subjective nature of the experience. Whereas good science requires so much objectivity.

But perhaps they are not as at odds as it sounds....

 

[boomerang]

Ostensibly crafted for the purposes of humor. But perhaps the world is indeed stranger than we can imagine without removing built in filters from the 3 lb. meat computer between our ears.

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

Interesting. We just finished a conversation around the dinner table, as the 13 year old asked when they could try alcohol, about the various effects, impacts, consequences and reasons around the consumption of various substances, along with the production of natural drugs in the body produced through exertion or meditation.

I bet that was a doozy! Sounds like fun, I look forward to having those same conversations.

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

I remember that many of the times I used psilocybin mushrooms I seemed to be connecting to what seemed to be ET. It seemed like the the mushrooms opened a channel for communication and I had a number of apparent downloads regarding the alien involvement with the history of our planet.

Basically, the story was that life was first seeded here from space, almost like a spore that started the whole process of evolution on earth. Then much later, I got the sense of a more advanced traveler - very much like the conquistadors, looking for wealth and conquest. These beings came upon the earth and saw a beautiful, untouched planet, decided to stay and colonize, very much like Europeans in the new world.

The way of life of these travelers was different than those that had evolved here naturally. Agriculture, livestock, and the walls of cities were the way of the travelers, a way of life suited for traveling in space, as opposed to the more hunter gatherer style that was naturally adapted to the planet.

I'm not sure what to make of these downloads, I don't treat them literally, as in many ways these are very archetypal stories. It did seem like I was getting information from somewhere, though. It felt different than my imagination. Of course I was tripping....

Towards the end of my entheogenic experiments, I started to feel like the mushrooms were the aliens, not just a way to talk to them.

I never had these types of experiences with other entheogens, fwiw.

Wow! Thank you so much for this. There's so much here that I could respond to. You should definitely consider submitting a trip report to erowid, bluelight or the shroomery.

What were your doses like and do you know the strain? Were these two variables the same over your experiences or did you attain connection/contact with different dose/strain? What about set and setting and how were those maintained across sessions? How familiar are you with Mckenna and Lilly? Leary?

It felt different than my imagination

I really like this. This is something important for us to think about. Could you expand?

I started to feel like the mushrooms were the aliens, not just a way to talk to them.

I would also love it if you might expand on this:

Do you mean this literally like the Mckenna's stoned ape theory/panspermia type thing?

I never had these types of experiences with other entheogens, fwiw.

The same goes for me.

I have some doubts as to the possibility of using entheogens as bona fide research tools, due to the overwhelming subjective nature of the experience. Whereas good science requires so much objectivity.

Often highly subjective, yes, but not always. Smoked or injected DMT is something very different and it is repeatable and predictable (to some degree) for more experienced researchers. Anyways, I'm not sure that subjectivity is such a limitation. Subjectivity can be managed or controlled and is not impossible to analyze. Ufology almost completely forgets about or just greatly neglects the subconscious be it Freudian, Lacanian or even Jungian (a stunning move considering Vallee's influence). This is very strange to me.

When you say science and most of Ufology seems to attempt to rest on "hard" science, it does so, in my mind, to account for the ETH. I am not comfortable with that hypothesis and believe that Ufology, like many disciplines within the humanities, have turned to science as a way of legitimizing oneself. Ufology, being outside of the academy (mainstream) has done this for different reasons, that, I suspect are similar but also have to do with a great many belief systems and the unquenchable desire for disclose and media legitimacy. I might think differently if I knew of a Ufologist that could successfully overlap with non-linear dynamics and complexity studies or quantum science.

I think that science, depending on what kind, and the methods and ethics involved can be useful but not exclusively and not at the expense of psychology, mythology, phenomenology, psychedelic and non-psychedelic shamanism, magick and mysticism. It's kind of like many people believe that philosophy is the only way to really get down to things and I totally reject that as an antiquated concept, that, the contemporary view is totally interdisciplinary now. With the collapse of the distinction of high and low, philosophy was placed alongside things rather than above. The same should be done with science. Also, objectivity is highly overrated!!

Be well.

Erowid
Erowid Experience Vaults: Mushrooms (also Magic Mushrooms, Psilocybin-containing Fungi) Main Index
Trip Reports
Shroomery - Trip Reports

Stoned Ape Theory Might be More Than Just Stoner Logic | Mysterious Universe

 

[Burnt State]

I'm curious, Zebra o.t.L., or anyone else who seeks through entheogens, do you have a working hypothesis outside of McKenna's hallucinatory pageantry regarding his connection to the alien other through the fungal teacher? I feel that there is something peculiar about altered experiences that connect us to disconnected ideas and I wonder if the nature of the connection is specific to our own relationships towards specific concepts/desires and how they may play out along the lines of entheogenic experiences?

In the same way that many believers in a cult may share in certain psycho-spiritual events with similar emotions and critical ideas, is the entheogenic journeyer also shaped by certain desires for more than what is, for a longing to be connected, to mainline the rhythms of the universe and be one with that which is not known. The seeker seeks, I guess is what i'm saying. In some of my previous intense desires to seek I definitely got very disconnected and just wonder what is really at the heart of what is being sought. Is it about incompletion or about the need for purpose for example?

I find that since finding myself with an immense amount of purpose after having children and making these other relationship choices, that the desire to seek has been minimized incredibly. As Greg Bishop relayed to me his own father's message (and I paraphrase), "if you decide to have children none of this stuff is going to matter much anymore." I feel that this is where I've come to in understanding what value is left in such experiences when my life motivations have changed or become more defined. My desire to seek along those lines has diminished greatly and find connectivity in many other low edge or more human ways. The UFO is almost a distant memory in some ways, and not that important anymore either.

I mThe ean the fI means the fascination

(EDIT: I don't know where that last phrase came from but it looks psychedelic friendly and seems like it should stand as is.)

 

[Burnt State]

Towards the end of my entheogenic experiments, I started to feel like the mushrooms were the aliens, not just a way to talk to them.

I would really appreciate you mapping this out a little more. When you say that the mushrooms were the alien was it about the nature of the experience itself, that was so enticing, so filled with ideas that are felt as much as they are understood, in the ways spies talk to each other with only a brief glance? I have found in the past that the sensation of oneness and intuitive understanding is much more magnified than in most other experiences with the mushroom. Fungus are also a primary form of food consumption - one of the top five we should eat daily. The fungal body fixes metals in the soil for tree root uptake and performs these incredible stunts in the forest as well as in our minds. What made them alien for you?

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

But perhaps the world is indeed stranger than we can imagine without removing built in filters from the 3 lb. meat computer between our ears.

It is and I wonder what it's like as raw sensory input, before it's filtered and made legible by our sensory apparatus. Imagine that!

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

hallucinatory pageantry

Hahaha!