Making a Case for Meditation using Science!

[General Misconception]

Although this subject can bring up great philosophical insights (or debates) I would like to share what I have learned about "Meditation". So that people like Greer and Prophet YHWH don't ruin this Very Real and very useful skill for others who would be put off by such Cult like sources of the information.

In this thread I am taking the route of the Cognitive Neurosciences, I don't want the waters of this forum to be muddied by - OBEs, Channeling, Remote Viewing, Auras, Chakras, Kundalini, Patented methods of meditation (maharishi university "Transcendental Meditation") or vague descriptions of things such as Chi, Pranic Breathing, or ESP. Why? Well first we must all agree on the Science presented to us, by sharing the actual observed and recorded the effects of meditation and neurological phenomenon (which by extension can include the nervous system, so the heart and guts Can have a place in this thread as long as we provide reference material). Then when we feel we are actually taking steps to learn what the latest understandings have been, then we can begin to hypothesize as to how these understandings MAY has implications on such understandings as are not within our grasp (yet). But I will open a new thread for that when we get there.

I am undertaking this because I know something most people do not, but many people need to reach this understanding in a logical orderly fashion, I aim to reach you from where your understanding is currently. I aim to be here to answer questions for you in a way that will reach you from where you are standing, there should not be any huge leaps of logic.

I will repeat and stress the fact that I do not want this thread to have anything to do with unexplained, vague or otherwise hard to reach concepts, Please abide by this one rule, we will begin another thread where all the Musings under the sun can be entertained, but not here. Please and thank you.

I do not know everything, I will work well with those who have a working knowledge and we can build each other up from there as we help others that have less knowledge but would like to learn what the big deal is. This is not a contest.

Here are some topics we can touch on. just for ideas.

-Sound (how it affects you and how you can use it as a tool)

- Various methods ( there are many ways to meditate not only one or 2, hypnogogic, focus, trance, empty mind, rhythm, dance, ex, ex)

- Cultures (the native Americans had powwows, Tibetan monks have chants, Gregorian monks sing...)

- Health benefits ( Stress relief, anger management, sleep aid, focus primer.)

-Clarity, ability to re assess the situation without thinking, letting go as a way of letting your unconscious to process complex issues over time, learn to recognize and utilize this more effectively, this is what we do when we sleep, why not take a more proactive approach.

And many more, I'm sure you reading this are thinking of some right now.


To begin I will present a short video that begins to bridge the gap between western science and the eastern tradition of meditation, arguably a science in its own right thru thousands of years of trial and error ( Objective meets Subjective ).

I hope this thread is enjoyable.
Peace.

 

[Randall]

Well, where to start. First let me say that the introduction above seems well intentioned, but I'm not so sure it's entirely accurate. The video says that idea for neuroplasticity came from a really unlikely source when in 1992 the Dali Lama Approached neuroscientists at the University of Madison Wisconsin. While it may be true that the Dali Lama made a visit to the university, the Wikipedia article on neuroplasticity doesn't mention the Dali Lama at all. It says that the first person to use the term neural plasticity appears to have been the Polish neuroscientist Jerzy Konorski, who further developed the work of Ivan Pavlov by discovering secondary conditioned reflexes and also operant conditioning. He also proposed the idea of gnostic neurons, a concept similar to the grandmother cell. There is no indication that he was influenced by the Dali Lama ... but there is a bit of a resemblance .

Another issue is the characterization of western psychology and its treatment of emotions, saying that in western psychology there are only six emotions. This claim obviously doesn't consider PH.D. psychologist Robert Plutchik who was professor emeritus at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine and adjunct professor at the University of South Florida, and who created Pluchik's Wheel of Emotions below:

Lastly, although it's a nice sentiment to suggest that science and religion can learn a lot from each other, it's doubtful that this is actually the case. The two disciplines are diametrically opposed in terms of what constitutes truth and evidence, and if anything, it seems to me that religion has both learned and benefitted more from science already than it will ever be able to give back to science in exchange. In fact, we could probably do just fine without religion altogether. However none of this is to suggest that meditation doesn't have its benefits. I think that its entirely possible to leave the religion out of meditation and still get the benefits, probably even more than if we had to include the religion along with it.

 

[General Misconception]

. However none of this is to suggest that meditation doesn't have its benefits. I think that its entirely possible to leave the religion out of meditation and still get the benefits, probably even more than if we had to include the religion along with it.


I was more aiming for the tradition associated with meditation more so than the Religious system it concerns so I agree, religion is something like trying to get your pants on with 2 legs at the same time. We should learn from the history of why certain practices had value though. Such as the chanting, mantras, and powwows. As there is evidence that the rhythmic aspects of these rituals can aid to bring a desired state of mind around. Music plays a large part in our lives these days, can you imagine a world before radio or records?

Good start, you said you used to meditate did you not?

 

[Randall]

.
However none of this is to suggest that meditation doesn't have its benefits. I think that its entirely possible to leave the religion out of meditation and still get the benefits, probably even more than if we had to include the religion along with it.

I was more aiming for the tradition associated with meditation more so than the Religious system it concerns so I agree, religion is something like trying to get your pants on with 2 legs at the same time. We should learn from the history of why certain practices had value though. Such as the chanting, mantras, and powwows. As there is evidence that the rhythmic aspects of these rituals can aid to bring a desired state of mind around. Music plays a large part in our lives these days, can you imagine a world before radio or records?

Good start, you said you used to meditate did you not?

Yes. When I was in my teens I got a yoga book and started practicing the part of meditation that emphasized clearing one's mind of thoughts and visions. It was said to be more restful than sleep, and as I got better at it, I noticed that even as little as 15 or 20 minutes of such meditation would leave me feeling much more refreshed and able to focus. What's more, having done it back then, whenever I have needed to do it since, the ability and benefits have come back very quickly, allowing me to get through stressful days much more effectively. I have also found it very helpful in recovering from the effects of hearing damage. By meditating on the various frequencies that manifest themselves in tinnitus, I can silence them completely. I don't think religion is required to reap these benefits. To me, the religious element seems like more of a mystique that has been built up around the practice, probably because in centuries past, they didn't know about science or psychology, and invoked supernatural explanations. As you suggest, one could probably make use of the essential principles of meditation without invoking religion.