MoD to destroy future UFO reports

[Jay]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14487813

 

[Sean Elifritz]

All that's going to do is convince people even more that there is some big cover-up. I really don't buy into the conspiracy arguments as all I ever see from the governments of the world is indifference and ridicule. But a lot of people do believe in it and this is just going to further their beliefs.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

All that's going to do is convince people even more that there is some big cover-up. I really don't buy into the conspiracy arguments as all I ever see from the governments of the world is indifference and ridicule. But a lot of people do believe in it and this is just going to further their beliefs.

We also have to assume that governments are largely competent.

And that's a huge stretch.

 

[bobheck]

Gene,

Just send a letter to the MoD and offer to be a repository for all the stuff they are going to throw away.

 

[Para]

Gene,

Just send a letter to the MoD and offer to be a repository for all the stuff they are going to throw away.

Dont hold your breath.. Be nice to know if you do get a reply.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Hi Folks,

MOD is a great institution which has other important issues to worry about and UFO sightings comes bottom of the list unless it disarm nuclear weapons systems , fly over military airbases he he.

You never get Gov disclosure unless it all out war on ET.

 

[Darkly Brooding]

Gene,

Just send a letter to the MoD and offer to be a repository for all the stuff they are going to throw away.

Too late,...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/29/sun_ufo_files/

Is it just me or is forwarding the MoD UFO files to the Sun the same as filtering all raw news coverage through the National Enquirer(being a well documented CIA funded publication)?

Am I wrong in thinking the exposure that certain former MoD personalities in the UFO community may have brought to the MoD UFO files, and subsequent flooding of reports and FOI requests, contributed to the finality of the MoD's involvement in UFO data collection and research?

Yes, I'm referring to Nick Pope, who perhaps unwittingly, may have helped expedite this matter, in the hopes that further exposure to the public might aid the cause and the study.

Well brilliantly played either way British MoD, you've managed to clean up a mess for yourselves that was quickly getting out of control & quite possibly shown the US how to clean up it's own disclosure headaches,....time will tell.

 

[Schuyler]

Is it just me or is forwarding the MoD UFO files to the Sun the same as filtering all raw news coverage through the National Enquirer(being a well documented CIA funded publication)?

Assuming you are not being tongue in cheek, the National Enquirer/CIA connection is not well documented at all. It comes from Terry Hansen's book 'Missing Times' where he muses that such a connection might be possible based on the fact that Gene Pope (interesting that it's the same last name--must be a connection) worked as an analyst for the CIA for a few months when he was 24 years old. He spoke fluent Italian and was used in conjunction with CIA activities in Italy, which had a strong Commuinist contingent after WW II. From my essay on Dolan:

Dolan also makes the claim that the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]National Enquirer[/FONT], which was purchased by Gene Pope, who had “long time” CIA connections, got the money from a CIA slush fund. (p. 326). His reference is Terry Hansen’s analysis in his book, [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]The Missing Times[/FONT]. The idea is that by virtue of the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]National Enquirer [/FONT]reporting on UFOs, sometimes quite accurately, according to Dolan, again with no references, this somehow marginalizes the subject and further meets the nefarious goals of the CIA.

Pope bought the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Enquirer [/FONT]in 1952, two years after his father’s death. Pope apparently worked for the CIA between 1951 and 1952, likely less than a year. Another explanation of the start-up money (if he needed it at all) is that Pope got it from Frank Costello, the Mafia boss, in exchange for never fingering the Mafia in its stories. But since that possibility does not fit Dolan’s overall “The CIA did it” thesis, he doesn’t even bring it up.​

Hansen himself has this to say about the issue:

“So maybe it is not just a meaningless coincidence that the Enquirer was founded by Gene Pope, formerly of the CIA's psychological warfare division. Pope, 25 at the time he left the CIA, had loads of cash to spend on buying and nurturing a newspaper, the source of which has never been determined.” ​

http://www.themissingtimes.com/documents.xhtml

And…​

“For this to be workable, one must assume that Pope continued to work for the CIA in deep cover as a newspaper publisher after he left the agency. Although there is no direct evidence for this, it hardly seems out of the question in light of what we know about the CIA’s extensive covert involvement with the news media. [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]Missing Times[/FONT][/FONT], p. 236.

Hansen builds a more extensive, but completely circumstantial case for this in pages 236-239. First, Hansen claims that Pope had “loads of cash” to buy the [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Enquirer[/FONT], then he suggests Pope was “formerly of the CIA’s psychological warfare division.” He does say that Pope was at the CIA for less than a year, but he fails to say that Pope spoke fluent Italian, or that Pope and the CIA were engaged in fighting Communism in Europe (specifically Italy) during the time he was there, or that he was bored to tears (He was 24 years old.) and hated the CIA bureaucracy.

There’s not one shred of proof that Pope got the money from the CIA. Hansen’s account provides no documentation and leads you to believe that since he doesn’t know where Pope got the money, the likely source was the CIA. This is essentially an illogical ‘conclusion from ignorance.’ That’s where and how Dolan gets his information, thus what starts out as an extremely weak assumption that waffles in double negatives as it speaks, “maybe…not just a meaningless coincidence,” winds up as fact, a “CIA slush fund” by the time Dolan is finished with it. For a much more comprehensive account of Pope and the CIA see: The Godfather [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]of Tabloid: Generoso Pope Jr. and the National Enquirer[/FONT], By Jack Vitek, PhD (2008: University of Kentucky Press), where Vitek explains that he did not have ‘loads of cash’ at all:​

"To make the purchase, Pope put down whatever cash he had left from his millionaire father’s sole slim cash legacy—possibly as little as $5,000—and borrowed another $20,000 toward the down payment on the $75,000 total.(9) Pope never revealed where he got the money. But he told how he spent his “last buck” on the deal: “I took a cab to the lawyer’s office on Wall Street, and I didn’t have the money to pay the cab. I had a lucky silver dollar, so I paid the cab with it, and went up to close the deal, more on nerve than anything else.(10)…


Many sources have indicated that Pope had turned to the Mob and Costello for the loan,(11) Roy Cohen also claimed he loaned Pope money towards the paper’s purchase, but his recollection of the numbers doesn’t square with Pope’s account. Cohn was dying of AIDS when he related his story to his biographer, Sid Zion, who said Cohn’s mind occasionally wondered into hallucination. Zion said he assumed the virus had affected Cohn’s brain,(12) a well-known phenomenon in death from AIDS. Cohn said Pope bought the [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]Enquirer [/FONT][/FONT]for $40,000, and that he loaned Pope $10,000….Aside from the problem with the amounts, there seems little reason to doubt that Cohn loaned Pope money on the [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]Enquirer[/FONT][/FONT], though his help could have come later, because for the next few years Pope continued to borrow money, almost certainly from Costello, to keep the paper afloat. (pp. 41-42)"

Dolan either did not find or look for alternative explanations, or if he found them, he did not use them. As is obvious from the passage immediately above, Vitek’s account is both documented and much more comprehensive than Hansen’s, which is not documented at all—another dead reference based on the ‘coincidence’ that Pope did a short stint with the CIA then took over a newspaper. Obviously we ‘must assume’ the two are connected because, after all, one happened after the other. Vitek’s account at least deserves a hearing.

 

[bobheck]

Assuming you are not being tongue in cheek, the National Enquirer/CIA connection is not well documented at all. It comes from Terry Hansen's book 'Missing Times' where he muses that such a connection might be possible based on the fact that Gene Pope (interesting that it's the same last name--must be a connection) worked as an analyst for the CIA for a few months when he was 24 years old. He spoke fluent Italian and was used in conjunction with CIA activities in Italy, which had a strong Commuinist contingent after WW II. From my essay on Dolan:

Well regardless of all the CIA/Enquirer stuff (very good work Schuyler), The Sun isn't in the 'cafe society' of newspapers, to be sure.

 

[Darkly Brooding]

Assuming you are not being tongue in cheek, the National Enquirer/CIA connection is not well documented at all. It comes from Terry Hansen's book 'Missing Times' where he muses that such a connection might be possible based on the fact that Gene Pope (interesting that it's the same last name--must be a connection) worked as an analyst for the CIA for a few months when he was 24 years old. He spoke fluent Italian and was used in conjunction with CIA activities in Italy, which had a strong Commuinist contingent after WW II. From my essay on Dolan:

Actually, no, the comment was not tongue-in-cheek, but contentious; as the assertion against the claim that the National Enquirer couldn't have CIA involvement also has holes in it, particularly ironic when considering the propagandist pulp that it is,...

Can anyone say CIA agents(as general a position as that has become) have never worked for or produced articles for, or influenced the direction of, or arranged for preferential business considerations for, etc. such a small publication in such a cut-throat industry,...not with 100% certainty, but the implications still makes me chuckle. Broader point, as Bobheck points out, is that it isn't exactly highly regarded for it's impeccable journalistic integrity, much as the NEnq.

Point being it's a perfect white-wash opportunity for any government bodies to control the flow, collection & research of data from a privatized distance while expending less resources & maintaining complete control of the perception of that data; data that would be better collected and reviewed by a non-existent(unfortunately), independent, international scientific community & organization.

 

[Schuyler]

Point being it's a perfect white-wash opportunity for any government bodies to control the flow, collection & research of data from a privatized distance while expending less resources & maintaining complete control of the perception of that data; data that would be better collected and reviewed by a non-existent(unfortunately), independent, international scientific community & organization.

But you have absolutely no proof whatsoever, and I have shown you categorically that the 'proof' (the 'documented proof') is non-existant. I have shown you where that 'documented proof' came from, how it was 100% speculative, how it has been contradicted by documented facts, and how it morphed from speculation into acceptance, from someone's musing into well-known 'fact.' You said this was 'well documented.' Well then, where, exactly, is the 'documentation?' The answer here is that it exists only in the minds of people who think it might--and THAT'S not proof.

And that's what's wrong with Ufology. Speculation masquerading as 'facts.'

 

[Darkly Brooding]

And that's what's wrong with Ufology. Speculation masquerading as 'facts.'

Or perhaps ego is,...
as in one that would derail a topic about the Defense Department shifting the collection of UFO data over to a privatized publication, and spend all it's time arguing over a passing contentious comparison, that was, admittedly, intentionally made to inflame, on a topic who's truths are now lost to history,...

unlike the topic of this thread,...
which is the MoD & their dealings with ufo files,....

 

[Schuyler]

I don't even pretend to understand that. I just notice that the issue raised is being evaded. I'm not the one who brought up the subject of CIA/National Enquirer originally. You were. So if there is any drift off topic, you provided the origin by making that unsubstantiated claim.

Topics drift in forums. There are some forums, such as ATS, where that is not allowed and moderators will step in to force the discussion back 'on track' even going so far as to delete posts. This isn't one of them.

However, one thing we really try to stay away from is personal attacks. Your comments about ego are perilously close. Stick with the subject (whatever you want that to be) and leave the author out of it and you'll be fine.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I would enjoy someone else doing the work of proving a CIA connection to the National Enquirer via an examination of their articles. What is the CIA trying to prove supposedly via the National Enquirer, that your dog may be an alien from outer space, that Britney Spears is an emotional basket case and unfit mother, that Tom Cruise has front tooth implants, that Kirstie Alley has weight problems, that Brad and Angelina are fighting again, that there is a secret race of blue people (like in Avatar) living in the rain forests of Brazil?

Honest! I'd love someone to show how the National Enquirer has been used to further CIA interests. In case anyone outside the USA does not know, the National Enquirer is a trash gossip rag that is sold usually in supermarket checkout lines and focuses on celebrity gossip (most of it untrue) and bizarre stories about a "bat boy" who sleeps hanging from his feet, and proving why men with big noses make better lovers. You can imagine the readership! I suspect it is the Tea Party's national publication! Ha, ha.

Doesn't the CIA have better things to do than appeal to the below-average intelligence house wife who reads such trash?

P.S. I realize that the above post may be very elitist to some readers. Sorry about that. Everyone has a choice of how they occupy their mind. Consciously choosing the National Enquirer says something about a person, and it ain't pretty. Someone may ask how I know about the NE. Well, after a life time of standing in long supermarket checkout lines, I've gotten a cheap thrill or too chuckling over the ludicrous expose articles in the NE, including the priceless article (which almost got me to buy an issue) "Beware of Gay Aliens". The article was by a farmer who said a gay alien with (get this) stereotypical limp wrists and a lisp tried to seduce him. They included a picture of the farmer and he made Rush Limbaugh look attractive. I wonder if gay aliens also love Barbra Streisand and dance club music? The CIA has a lot to answer for, turning homophobes against our alien visitors! :