My not-so-thrilling ayahuasca experience

[TalkingMeatSuit]

So, a couple weeks ago I took a trip out of the country to see what this ayahuasca thing is all about. I signed up for 2 nights of ceremonies and was with a group of a dozen people.

The first night I took 2 "doses". The first one I vomited after 30 minutes, the second came back up after staying down for 20 minutes. The minimum recommended time to keep it down was 20 minutes. So, even though it wasn't ideal, I certainly got it in my system. Unfortunately I was the only person there that didn't experience anything. Later that night / early morning the rest of my shamanic seeker comrades all couldn't stop talking about how amazing and mind-blowing the whole experience was for them. Words seemed to escape their grasp and not do it justice.

I did feel that my equilibrium was off a bit, and it sure made me sick, but nothing else. I was so disappointed.

The second night actually went worst than the first. I tried a pair of doses again, but all the fasting and vomiting had left my stomach extremely raw and unhappy. They didn't even stay down as long as the first ones did, so needless to say even less happened. Just some vomiting.

Having spent much of my life taking herbal and natural remedies, being familiar with bitter / pungent tastes - I found that the brew didn't taste as bad as I thought it would. It went down rather easy, even if it was a bit thick and grainy.

So, there ya have it! My terribly underwhelming "Teacher Plant" experience. The shaman leading the ceremony kept saying things like "it works in mysterious ways", "I can see it working in you", etc - and everyone there seemed thoroughly awestruck (no, they weren't all faking because 2 of them are close IRL friends) - but I guess it just wasn't for me. The second day I know it didn't stay down long enough. Maybe next time I will prep my stomach better and bring a huge stein to drink it with.

TL;DR - Nothing happened lol

 

[ward]

Thank you for the feedback TalkingMeatSuit,

I'm glad to hear a range of experiences, I've only heard one other time of ayahuasca not working. Seems like this time the "poison" was rejected to fast from your system.

Out of curiosity were you told how to prepare your stomach? How would you prepare now having gone through the experience?

 

[Decker]

Hell's Bell's ... if I plan to get myself f**ked up and KNOW I am gonna puke ... brother .. let me tell you ... it will be with tequila sunrise's. At least I know what I am getting ...

Decker

 

[Decker]

... or possibly with either white or black Russians. I like them to ...

 

[stonehart]

Hell's Bell's ... if I plan to get myself f**ked up and KNOW I am gonna puke ... brother .. let me tell you ... it will be with tequila sunrise's. At least I know what I am getting ...

Decker

Now there is an experience I have had.. ouch.

Will stick to my Single Malt Scotch Don, tastes better and the hangover is not as bad.

 

[Randall]

I don't recommend poisoning one's self in order to experience the effects of one's own brain damage. Alcohol tastes good, but it's actually pretty harsh. Anything you smoke can't be all that good for your lungs. I've heard that clean LSD and certain select hallucinogens don't cause brain damage or make one feel ill in modest doses, but how can one be certain of the quality control? I suppose one could get into mushroom culture or learn the secret chemistry of LSD, but just how necessary is it to go to those lengths? Have any of these allegedly profound experiences produced any objectively verifiable information? Certainly we have heard claims that they have been inspirational in both the arts and sciences. But do we really know that great music and technology wouldn't have happened without artists and techies getting loaded?

From what I gather they're all very personal subjective experiences that seem amazing to the experiencer, but have little relevance to anyone else. I've also heard plenty of musicians say how they thought something they did was amazing at the time they were high, and then when they listen to it played back when they were straight, they thought it sucked. This isn't any kind of commentary on what should or shouldn't be legalized. That's a whole other issue. And it's not that I don't understand that people can get into exploring these experiences for the sake of their own curiosity either. I was in the alternative underground rock scene for years and in the past I've tried this and that, but in the end, I grew out of it all and looking back, I would have been further ahead to have just avoided it all altogether. In fact I'd recommend avoiding it to anyone thinking of trying it. Not just because of the potential hazards, but also because of the social responsibility. Until it's legalized and regulated, participation only fuels a lot of really bad business. Alcohol may not be very good for you, but at least the other problems aren't as much a part of it.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Not trying to be funny but can it be taken up the back passage? Apparently many drugs can be as there is a good supply of blood vessels. Be a bit embarrassing but nothing ventured nothing gained eh?

As for your own failed experience, I wonder if the fact that the drug has to be mixed with a mono-amine oxidase inhibitor, perhaps some people have far more of the enzyme that breaks DMT down in the stomach and therefore the usual amounts of MAOI in the mix might not cut it for you?

You'd be better off just smoking DMT and avoid all this sickness stuff. Or, try Ibogaine - it does make you puke but there is no chance it won't work.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I never understood the point of poisoning one's self in order to experience the effects of one's own brain damage. Alcohol tastes good, but it's actually pretty harsh. Anything you smoke can't be all that good for your lungs. I've heard that clean LSD and certain select hallucinogens don't cause brain damage or make one feel ill in modest doses, but how can one be certain of the quality control? I suppose one could get into mushroom culture or learn the secret chemistry of LSD, but just how necessary is it to go to those lengths? Have any of these allegedly profound experiences produced any objectively verifiable information? From what I gather they're all very personal subjective experiences that seem amazing to the experiencer, but have little relevance to anyone else. This isn't any kind of commentary on what should or shouldn't be legalized. That's a whole other issue.

My argument for that is we take car's for drive's we don't need, for fun, even though as a means of transport it's very dangerous. Ditto for many sports or pursuits that involve danger of injury or death.
I don't think the point of such things has to be to produce outwardly verifiable anything - like music and art and sex, it's just something that has to be experienced to appreciate. I certainly do not advocate people use any chemical without serious consideration and especially alcohol. If I were inclined to ban something, it would be booze. Some of us can handle it but so many people end up in fights, murders, spousal abuse etc, you just ask cops and nurses which drug causes them the greatest headaches and they will say to a man (or woman) it's alcohol.

 

[Wade]

Hell's Bell's ... if I plan to get myself f**ked up and KNOW I am gonna puke ... brother .. let me tell you ... it will be with tequila sunrise's. At least I know what I am getting ...

Decker

or for that matter anything that tastes as good going up as it does going down .

 

[Burnt State]

I'm tempted to agree with Goggs on the banning of booze if it were not for good single malt whiskies. But when it comes to damage to society alcohol is number one and tobacco close behind.

Ufology, as far as the value of hallucinogens I can testify to their value in terms of "cleaning out one's head." These drugs do pierce to the core of where we are historically at socially, emotionally and psychologically. They have been known to assist individuals to make better life decisions, as well as cure long standing personal disorders, issues and addictions. In the case of ayahuasca I have read that individuals looking to get rid of their heroin or other narcotics addiction can experience, during the trip, a replay of the exact moment in their life that put them on addictions' path. Having cleaned my own head once or twice before, these are more than just recreation or fun drugs, they have the power to heal and inform. I can understand why they have occupied such a unique space socially across history. I also wish they were more under the control of the shaman instead of the dealer. Drugs waste the young and are probably mostly wasted on them. We have made some pretty strange decisions regarding substances in our society. It's probably better if everyone just learned how to meditate.

 

[Randall]

I'm tempted to agree with Goggs on the banning of booze if it were not for good single malt whiskies. But when it comes to damage to society alcohol is number one and tobacco close behind.

I also agree with Goggs to the extent that we deserve the freedom to make personal choices regarding drug use without the added negative consequences of criminalization. Regulation, quality control, education, and rehabilitation could all better managed by making it legal and taxable, while at the same time relieving society of the burden on the legal system.

Ufology, as far as the value of hallucinogens I can testify to their value in terms of "cleaning out one's head." These drugs do pierce to the core of where we are historically at socially, emotionally and psychologically. They have been known to assist individuals to make better life decisions, as well as cure long standing personal disorders, issues and addictions. In the case of ayahuasca I have read that individuals looking to get rid of their heroin or other narcotics addiction can experience, during the trip, a replay of the exact moment in their life that put them on addictions' path.

Sure, take someone who's hooked on crack and get them messed up on ayahuasca or Oxycontin or some illicit drug or whatever. What part about the word "poison" are you missing or downplaying or glossing over? The phrase "pick your poison" is literally true in most cases. Whatever it is, it's still substituting one drug for another and that doesn't really get to the root of the problem of addictions in the first place. As for personality disorders, I'm no fan of Ritalin or other pharmaceuticals and I'm far from convinced that drug therapy with illegal drugs is going to help most people with problems, and again I don't think any sort of drug therapy deals with the root causes. For that I think prevention and education are the real answers for otherwise normal healthy people.

Having cleaned my own head once or twice before, these are more than just recreation or fun drugs, they have the power to heal and inform. I can understand why they have occupied such a unique space socially across history. I also wish they were more under the control of the shaman instead of the dealer. Drugs waste the young and are probably mostly wasted on them. We have made some pretty strange decisions regarding substances in our society. It's probably better if everyone just learned how to meditate.

I don't doubt that the responsible use of drugs can contribute to quality of life, but as usual, my concerns are for the present state of affairs regarding the irresponsible use and the social consequences of supporting the crime that goes on with the illegal business. These days I don't do drugs any harder than caffeine. I had a beer 2 months ago. My birthday is coming up and I'll probably celebrate with a rye and ginger ale. I live a really modest low key straight lifestyle and don't feel as though I'm missing out on anything

Last but not least, we have participants of all ages coming in here and although I know that this isn't what this discussion is about, I think it's really important not to give younger people the impression that we are in any way endorsing the use of any kind of drugs to induce any sort of paranormal experience. Even if we obviously don't seem to endorse that position when reading through the posts, there are those, particularly those who openly attack the subject matter who would exploit it and twist it to suit their own agendas. Therefore IMO it would be better to avoid the topic in the Paracast altogether and move it to some drug culture forum instead. The last thing we need is some kid asking, "Mom, what's ayahuasca?"

 

[Burnt State]

Sure, take someone who's hooked on crack and get them messed up on ayahuasca or Oxycontin or some illicit drug or whatever. Whatever it is, it's still substituting one drug for another and that doesn't really get to the root of the problem of addictions in the first place. As for personality disorders, I'm no fan of Ritalin or other pharmaceuticals and I'm far from convinced that drug therapy with illegal drugs is going to help most people with problems, and again I don't think any sort of drug therapy deals with the root causes. For that I think prevention and education are the real answers for otherwise normal healthy people.

No, the whole point of the exercise is to use the drug (ayahuasca) to explore one's psyche, to find, in fact, the root cause of the addiction, and then, with a guide, work to understand how the addiction manifested and why this moment is something that can be let go of psychologically, and how the addiction can be let go of along with it. This process is similar to the early use of LSD and current resurgence in treating various psychological disorders.

History of LSD Therapy

This is not about replacing one drug with another but a therapy to help an individual address root cause issues that have often been buried under layers of depression and addiction. This type of drug therapy has seen some success, and after acid stopped me from marrying the wrong person in my early years I can safely say that these therapies have great value indeed. Most recently the psychoactive ingredient in magic mushrooms was being used in palliative care units to successfully help patients overcome their fear of death.

Hallucinogens are here for us to investigate our history, overcome root causes and help us on our journey. They are very powerful compounds and I don't suggest anyone enter into their usage lightly, as I also have stories of those whose first time use left them in a psych ward, permanently, and I'm not talking Syd Barrett.

The whole Ritalin thing and the diagnosis of ADD and ADHD etc. are in fact just a ruse by big Pharma. If you look at the distribution of prescriptions across the US you can see that there is a very uneven distribution of prescriptions concentrated in the eastern seaboard, fading across midde America and then disappears altogether by the time you get to the west coast. This type of therapy is in fact about creating new addictions altogether, or at least maintaining cash for the dealer.

What I'm referencing is more akin to a vision quest, something that is undertaken during rare moments in one's life and with great purpose.

 

[Burnt State]

Hell's Bell's ... if I plan to get myself f**ked up and KNOW I am gonna puke ... brother .. let me tell you ... it will be with tequila sunrise's. At least I know what I am getting ...

During my years tending bar near the shipping docks and Steel Plant I have say that there is nothing quite like the Tequila drunk. The Whisky Monster is difficult to deal with once they crawl out of the bag, and beer drunks usually just fall up the stairs, but the Tequila Drunk, they get up on top of tables, start howling at the moon and then begin playing invisible harmonicas with great effect. I almost miss those days except for when I remember all the blood, vomit and violence.

 

[Randall]

No, the whole point of the exercise is to use the drug (ayahuasca) to explore one's psyche, to find, in fact, the root cause of the addiction, and then, with a guide, work to understand how the addiction manifested and why this moment is something that can be let go of psychologically ...

Sure, I get that. But is the Paracast the place for these discussions? Do we really need people linking paranormal experiences to drug use? If we're going to attract young people to take the topics seriously, we don't need to be perceived as a site that introduces young people to it, responsibly or otherwise. It's better to stick to the topics we're supposed to be exploring and only very carefully explore the history of drug use from a cultural perspective as it relates to certain paranormal experiences. I don't want to be perceived as unreasonable or the bad guy here. Just words of caution.

 

[Burnt State]

I can understand that perspective, though I feel that the education of substance use and abuse is always topical for youth - and better they get the real info as opposed to what their buddy dealer tells them is ok. Again, education is critical, especially for our most abused drugs (alcohol and nicotine) and it goes without saying, if you don't know everything that went into its manufacture, and what these things can do to YOU, it should not be consumed. The drug warning video I show to youth is about a first time ketamine user who was subsequently physically debilitated and had to relearn how their muscles worked - still can't walk, and can barely talk...sad. And she thought she was just going to have a really good time. No one should ever gamble with their life in such a way.

 

[Decker]

Well, I stopped smoking close to 20 years ago, but every once in a while I do treat myself to a very good cigar. Booze? Very seldom but I do now and then enjoy a stiff whiskey. Moderation in all things ... including moderation.

Decker

 

[boomerang]

As for your own failed experience, I wonder if the fact that the drug has to be mixed with a mono-amine oxidase inhibitor, perhaps some people have far more of the enzyme that breaks DMT down in the stomach and therefore the usual amounts of MAOI in the mix might not cut it for you?

Have a feeling this is close to an explanation. I guess if you are really intent on entering the DMT universe, you might ingest it in some more direct fashion.

Use of hallucinogens has been around for thousands of years and is not about to go away. I feel about them much as I do about high risk sports such as cave diving or base jumping. I would neither persuade nor dissuade a legal adult from trying them. A major concern should be lack of quality control in terms of what one is ingesting at the molecular level. Albert Hoffman was of the opinion that only something like 20% of recreational LSD is true LSD. And an even bigger wild card: The individual's response to the psychotropic. Even cannabis has been known to tip some folks over the line into psychosis ( rare, I think) and we all have known people whose lives have been wrecked by good old ethanol. Or even by their own innate brain chemistry.

Hallucinogenic exploration is not for me. But I have to admit to a kind of vicarious interest in hearing about the experiences of others. I would be lying if I said otherwise.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I also personally knew a true 'acid casualty' and it was very upsetting to see someone pretty much change overnight psychologically, and not for the better. We knew then what had happened to Sid Barret of Pink Floyd.
Some people have more susceptibility to mental illness brought on by hallucinogens. You can never tell whether these people would have become ill anyway without the drugs but the timing is usually a good enough indicator that in these cases, it was indeed the drugs.
I wonder if there could be some way of 'screening' out people with such susceptibility - obviously though the legal status precludes what I see as a sensible precaution. I do actually think anyone can be harmed in such a way, depending on amount used or frequency of use etc - without doubt it has risks.
I think the indigenous people have it right in that these things are done with reverence and under supervision. It's certainly not something that should be sourced on a street corner from a dealer who does not know what he even has.

 

[boomerang]

I also personally knew a true 'acid casualty' and it was very upsetting to see someone pretty much change overnight psychologically, and not for the better. We knew then what had happened to Sid Barret of Pink Floyd.
Some people have more susceptibility to mental illness brought on by hallucinogens. You can never tell whether these people would have become ill anyway without the drugs but the timing is usually a good enough indicator that in these cases, it was indeed the drugs.
I wonder if there could be some way of 'screening' out people with such susceptibility - obviously though the legal status precludes what I see as a sensible precaution. I do actually think anyone can be harmed in such a way, depending on amount used or frequency of use etc - without doubt it has risks.
I think the indigenous people have it right in that these things are done with reverence and under supervision. It's certainly not something that should be sourced on a street corner from a dealer who does not know what he even has.

I have a hard enough time trusting the purity of drugs made by the major pharmaceuticals. Sometimes it only takes a molecule or two out of place to change recreation or inner exploration into utter disaster. As for LSD, its a complex substance and its illegal status has almost insured a flood of impure and dangerous knockoffs. And we start with the premise that this is one of the most powerful drugs known to man, even in its purest form.

Life is crazy, with or without psychotropics. I think there may possibly be a role for drugs like LSD and DMT in treating psychiatric disorders. But I also don't think this culture has reached a level of sophistication and intellectual maturity wherein these avenues can be explored. Perhaps someday, or perhaps not.

I promise this is my last word on this subject/

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

I'm glad to hear a range of experiences, I've only heard one other time of ayahuasca not working. Seems like this time the "poison" was rejected to fast from your system.

Out of curiosity were you told how to prepare your stomach? How would you prepare now having gone through the experience?

All in all I kept the stuff down for 50 minutes the first night, when 20 minutes was the minimum recommended. I did lose my equilibrium for a little while. I have overdosed 3 times in my life, 2 of them being pretty bad, so I wonder if part of my brain needed to process the experience is fried.

Regarding preparation: I was on a pretty strict diet for 14 days leading up to it. No red meat, pork, artificial flavors or ingredients, no spices, no spicy or fermented food, medications (which was fine because I take none), caffeine (that one sucked), no sexual intimacy of any sort, and a bunch of other things that I can't remember. The days of the ceremony, no food or drink for at least 7 hours prior to participating. No food or drink until you've been down for at least a few hours.

Next time I would visit a doctor first and make sure that everything in my stomach is in perfect working order (I do have lots of acid / heartburn related issues). I'd get used to the diet for a longer amount of time so that it wasn't such a shock to my system. I'd go to the same place with the same shaman - he had a beautiful mix of both North and South American native songs that he sang along with a weird "boing"-sound string instrument that he plucked. As I mentioned, the effect was described as mind-blowing by everyone else there. Most were happy that it was only a 2 day excursion because they said that after just 1 night they had too much to process.

I would also take a larger quantity. I figure with a bigger dose, bullet-proofing my stomach, and not being so system shocked and tired from hitting a harsh diet cold turkey. If at first ya don't succeed...