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Rick Deckard said:
oops, thanks for that - I should use search more often - Gene/David can delete this thread as it's just 'clutter'...
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Funny, I saw you voted there hehe (after I replied here before). That thread is mainly about that Buzz Aldrin deal, so your thread is hardly clutter. I hope it stays.
 
A.LeClair said:
Funny, I saw you voted there hehe (after I replied here before). That thread is mainly about that Buzz Aldrin deal, so your thread is hardly clutter. I hope it stays.
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Yeah, I remember participating in the thread, but my head filed it under 'fake moon landings'.

What I really wanted to determine is where people draw the line in terms of trust - most here take NASA's record on the moon landings as gospel, but I wondered where those people stand on NASA and UFOs and if the two positions conflicted in any way...sort of "if you can't trust NASA about UFOs why do you trust them about the moon landings?" Perhaps now I've stated my intentions, people will be less willing to participate. We'll see.
 
Rick Deckard said:
Yeah, I remember participating in the thread, but my head filed it under 'fake moon landings'.

What I really wanted to determine is where people draw the line in terms of trust - most here take NASA's record on the moon landings as gospel, but I wondered where those people stand on NASA and UFOs and if the two positions conflicted in any way...sort of "if you can't trust NASA about UFOs why do you trust them about the moon landings?" Perhaps now I've stated my intentions, people will be less willing to participate. We'll see.
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It probably comes down to how impressed they find the evidence to support the conspiracy. One conspiracy might impress them in terms of evidence while another doesn't.

I'm convinced our gov. as an example, lies to us often. I am also convinced that they occasionally give accurate info. as well.

Even liars tell the truth.
 
I don't think *any* government, or governmental agency, is currently telling the whole truth about UFOs and ETs. The biggest reason being, I think, that they themselves don't fully understand what they are dealing with, and much prefer not to get drawn into a messy debate about the subject.

Put yourself into their shoes.

Image thousands, if not millions, of people knocking on your door, demanding to be told what you are going to do about those visitors from other worlds. "Can we trust them? Should we fight them? Should we make deals with them, or should we worship them?"

Can you imagine the confusion... The general public would expect leadership from their respective governments, but the leaders wouldn't be able to adequately respond.

How do you tell Joe Bloggs that time travel is not only possible, but easily doable for most aliens. How do you explain shape-shifting capabilities, and acceleration way beyond the speed of light. And here comes the real challenge: How do you tie this in with the kind of spirituality proposed, and lived, by the aliens? How do you explain to earthlings that religion and science are one, and always have been?

I can see why governments, for those reasons alone, wouldn't want to engage with the subject. That doesn't mean they have a right to aggressively and deviously cover up the truth.
 
musictomyears said:
I don't think *any* government, or governmental agency, is currently telling the whole truth about UFOs and ETs. The biggest reason being, I think, that they themselves don't fully understand what they are dealing with, and much prefer not to get drawn into a messy debate about the subject.

Put yourself into their shoes.

Image thousands, if not millions, of people knocking on your door, demanding to be told what you are going to do about those visitors from other worlds. "Can we trust them? Should we fight them? Should we make deals with them, or should we worship them?"

Can you imagine the confusion... The general public would expect leadership from their respective governments, but the leaders wouldn't be able to adequately respond.

How do you tell Joe Bloggs that time travel is not only possible, but easily doable for most aliens. How do you explain shape-shifting capabilities, and acceleration way beyond the speed of light. And here comes the real challenge: How do you tie this in with the kind of spirituality proposed, and lived, by the aliens? How do you explain to earthlings that religion and science are one, and always have been?

I can see why governments, for those reasons alone, wouldn't want to engage with the subject. That doesn't mean they have a right to aggressively and deviously cover up the truth.
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Yep, I share similar views - my question though is how involved are NASA? Are they in control or do they have to defer to some other 'power'? One of the popular arguments for 'authentic' moon landings is that NASA can't keep a secret - how does that sit with the idea that they're keeping another very big secret indeed?
 
Rick Deckard said:
Yep, I share similar views - my question though is how involved are NASA? Are they in control or do they have to defer to some other 'power'? One of the popular arguments for 'authentic' moon landings is that NASA can't keep a secret - how does that sit with the idea that they're keeping another very big secret indeed?
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I think there are probably several reasons for the current situation. I'll list them in order of significance (as I see it):

- Most people, in most countries, wish to have nothing to do with aliens, UFOs, or anything else considered spooky. You could present them with conclusive evidence for ETs and UFOs, but their response would be to run a million miles.

- The former point ties in with the next: Since most aliens appear to be rather smart (=understatement), they perfectly understand human psychology, and keep themselves at a distance. They try not to scare us, while, at the same time, making their presence known, until such day as humans have come to grips with the "greater reality".

- As mentioned earlier, governments have no incentive whatsoever for touching the subject. As long as there are only lights in the sky, but no direct or *lasting* confrontations, are governments only too happy to ignore ufology.

- Then there is the secrecy bit. As ever, the military in *all* countries would only be too keen to exploit knowledge of advanced technologies for their own purposes - and keep very quiet about it. Every new technology, from computer chips to fibre optics, gets used for military purposes first, long before civilian populations are allowed to get their hands on them. Talk about a time lag of, what, 40 years? And when it comes to advanced propulsion systems, the general public isn't supposed to know about them, even after 100 years. The idea that flying saucer technology has be re-engeneered, is a bit of a moot point, since we have plenty of human geniuses who, over the last decades, have come up with the most fantastic technologies. We don't even need aliens anymore to do at least some of the stuff they do.

- Finally: The media professionals, and the people who work for governmental institutions. They too are regular people, they too get confused and scared and despondent, just like the rest of us. Have you ever met journalists? Their main priority is to get the job done, i.e. to get the story out and to meet a deadline. Whether or not they got to the bottom of an issue is rather immaterial to most of them - as long as their boss is happy, they are happy.
The same goes for government employees. Why would any of them risk their reputation, and - much, much more importantly - their pension, by sticking their noses into something as scary and intangible as ETs, or UFOs? What's in it for them?

The bottom line is that - and there are probably more individual factors - in my view, humanity isn't quite "ready" (to use that New Age phrase) to look up to the skies, and feel curiosity and, most importantly, LOVE, for what might be out there.
 
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