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New info to me about JAL 1628 case...

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Creepy Green Light

Paranormal Adept
There is some information posted on Robert Shaefer's blog (badufos) that the captain of the JAL 747 (Capt. Terauchi) was a "UFO repeater". Supposedly he had two other sightings and had a strong belief in UFO's, aliens, etc. And supposedly the copilot and flight engineer NEVER saw the walnut shaped craft that was 4 times larger than an aircraft carrier. They only saw lights which they said they could not differentiate between stars or another flying object.

Also, there are a couple other people (who are named) that were at the FAA meeting that say nobody ever said "this meeting never happened" as John Calhoun states.

What do you think? I find some of these other points interesting. In case you don't know what I'm referring to, here are two links below. The first is of the JAL case. The second is Shaefer's blog.

Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: JAL 1628: Capt. Terauchi's Marvellous "Spaceship"
 
I think this is very interesting. Would not be the first time someone involved in a 'spectacular' sighting or event winds up being someone keen on ufo's. I am reminded of the curious case in Australian of the young man who went missing with his airplane - same situation, he had an interest in ufo's. [Under this possibility, the Australian could have been 'setting up' an 'incident' that went sadly awry.]

What does that mean? Is it significant? Are such folks concocting events in order to have 'evidence'? Or be part of the excitement with a sighting? Was the Japanese pilot doing so? Sounds like, unfortunately.
 
I think this is very interesting. Would not be the first time someone involved in a 'spectacular' sighting or event winds up being someone keen on ufo's. I am reminded of the curious case in Australian of the young man who went missing with his airplane - same situation, he had an interest in ufo's. [Under this possibility, the Australian could have been 'setting up' an 'incident' that went sadly awry.]

What does that mean? Is it significant? Are such folks concocting events in order to have 'evidence'? Or be part of the excitement with a sighting? Was the Japanese pilot doing so? Sounds like, unfortunately.
Yeah, they're trying to say that he's the boy who cries wolf. That he miracoulously keeps seeing UFO's while nobody else does. All pretty interesting stuff to me.
 
Creepy_Green_Light, thanks for posting the interesting blog. I want to comment on a couple of the points. The blog contains quotes from Phil Klass in which Klass misrepresents what the Copilot and Flight Engineer said (what a surprise).

First as a quick recap, there were two types of UFO reported in the encounter. There was the “large” UFO off the left side of the JAL 747 which could be seen primarily by Captain Terauchi through his left side window. This UFO appeared as two disconnected horizontal white lights. It was around these white lights that Captain Terauchi thought he could sometimes see the huge walnut-shaped silhouette. There were also two rectangular formations of an estimated 70-80 lights that moved as a unit to a position in front of the plane for about 5 minutes. These were clearly seen by all three crew members.

With regard to the Copilot, Klass took a statement out of context and wrote:
“When the copilot [Takanori Tamefuji] was asked if he could distinguish these lights ‘as being different’ from a star, he replied:’No.’”

The January 5, 1987 FAA interview with Tamefuji was done with the aid of an interpreter and encountered translation issues. In note 9 of his extensive report, Dr. Bruce Maccabee described the context of that statement:
“The difficulty in communicating through an interpreter is evident in the transcript of this interview. At one point the interviewer asked Tamefuji, referring to the arrays of lights ahead and to the left, ‘And you could distinguish these lights as being different from the star...?’ Tamefuji’s reponse is transcribed as ‘NNNooo...,’ which some might interpret as meaning that Tamefuji couldn’t distinguish the lights from stars. But the interviewer immediately continued ‘...from the stars?’ to which Tamefuji replied, ‘Different is fine.’ Subsequently Tamefuji made it quite clear that the lights were very different from stars.”

Some other comments Copilot Tamefuji made during the Jan 5, 1987 FAA interview:

When asked whether the formation of lights looked like an aircraft:
“And, but ah, very strange ah, I ah, it was too many lights …”

When asked about the color of the lights:
“… I think ah, salmon, just like Christmas assorted …and ah, I remember, red or orange, hum, and a white landing light. And weak green, ah, blinking”

Describing the sets of lights moving as one unit:
“How should I say – looks just like this, (hand signs were made by Mr. Tamefuji) moving like in one …very good formation flight”

Even Klass could have read this and seen this was not a person who thought he had seen something no different than stars. Klass would have also been well aware of the recorded communication between the Copilot and air controller in which Tamefuji talks about the unidentified “traffic” flashing strobe lights that was positioned in front of the JAL 747.

Here is the complete FAA interview with Copilot Takanori Tamefuji.
http://russhaywood.com/wp-haywood/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tamefuji-Interview-JAL-1628.pdf

With regard to the Flight Engineer, Klass wrote:
“[Flight Engineer Yoshio Tsukuba] ‘was not sure whether the object was a UFO or not’’

Once again Klass zeros in on a single sentence while ignoring the rest of what the Flight Engineer said. While Tsukuba was not sure the object was a “UFO”, there was no question in his mind that he saw the formation move in front of the plane and it was like nothing he had seen before.

Comments Flight Engineer Tsukuba made during the Jan 15, 1987 FAA interview:

Describing the formations of lights that moved in front of the plane:
“The first time I saw it was through the L1 window, at the 11 o’clock position. It looked larger than navigation lights. I do not remember exactly how many of those (lights) were there but clusters of lights undulating.”

“The lights in front of us were clusters of lights like this. I think they were made of two parts. How should I say this, but the lights were shaped like windows of a passenger aircraft.”

When asked how long he saw the objects:
“The one in front of us, as I mentioned earlier, I saw it for about 10 minutes, then, the one on our left side at 9 o’clock, together, a total of 30 minutes. The lights in front of us and the other one were of two absolutely different nature of lights.”

When asked what he saw on the plane’s radar when Captain Terauchi asked him to check for the object to the left of the plane:
“Yes, a green dot like, not exactly like a dot. It was not a dot, but stream like, I think the range was about 10 miles. I do not think it (on the radar) was the same lights as the one I saw in front of us.”

Here is the complete FAA interview with Flight Engineer Yoshio Tsukuba.
http://russhaywood.com/wp-haywood/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tsukuba-Interview-JAL-1628.pdf

Dr. Bruce Maccabee’s report:
FLIGHT OF JAL1628

It should be remembered that in at least one other case Klass offered a witness (Steve Pierce) $10,000 to come out and say he was lying without any concern for whether the witness was actually lying (Pierce declined the offer).
 
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I think this is very interesting. Would not be the first time someone involved in a 'spectacular' sighting or event winds up being someone keen on ufo's. I am reminded of the curious case in Australian of the young man who went missing with his airplane - same situation, he had an interest in ufo's. [Under this possibility, the Australian could have been 'setting up' an 'incident' that went sadly awry.]

What does that mean? Is it significant? Are such folks concocting events in order to have 'evidence'? Or be part of the excitement with a sighting? Was the Japanese pilot doing so? Sounds like, unfortunately.
I remember the case you speak of. I saw the reenactment of it.
 
Creepy_Green_Light, thanks for posting the interesting blog. I want to comment on a couple of the points. The blog contains quotes from Phil Klass in which Klass misrepresents what the Copilot and Flight Engineer said (what a surprise).

First as a quick recap, there were two types of UFO reported in the encounter. There was the “large” UFO off the left side of the JAL 747 which could be seen primarily by Captain Terauchi through his left side window. This UFO appeared as two disconnected horizontal white lights. It was around these white lights that Captain Terauchi thought he could sometimes see the huge walnut-shaped silhouette. There were also two rectangular formations of an estimated 70-80 lights that moved as a unit to a position in front of the plane for about 5 minutes. These were clearly seen by all three crew members.

With regard to the Copilot, Klass took a statement out of context and wrote:
“When the copilot [Takanori Tamefuji] was asked if he could distinguish these lights ‘as being different’ from a star, he replied:’No.’”

The January 5, 1987 FAA interview with Tamefuji was done with the aid of an interpreter and encountered translation issues. In note 9 of his extensive report, Dr. Bruce Maccabee described the context of that statement:
“The difficulty in communicating through an interpreter is evident in the transcript of this interview. At one point the interviewer asked Tamefuji, referring to the arrays of lights ahead and to the left, ‘And you could distinguish these lights as being different from the star...?’ Tamefuji’s reponse is transcribed as ‘NNNooo...,’ which some might interpret as meaning that Tamefuji couldn’t distinguish the lights from stars. But the interviewer immediately continued ‘...from the stars?’ to which Tamefuji replied, ‘Different is fine.’ Subsequently Tamefuji made it quite clear that the lights were very different from stars.”

Some other comments Copilot Tamefuji made during the Jan 5, 1987 FAA interview:

When asked whether the formation of lights looked like an aircraft:
“And, but ah, very strange ah, I ah, it was too many lights …”

When asked about the color of the lights:
“… I think ah, salmon, just like Christmas assorted …and ah, I remember, red or orange, hum, and a white landing light. And weak green, ah, blinking”

Describing the sets of lights moving as one unit:
“How should I say – looks just like this, (hand signs were made by Mr. Tamefuji) moving like in one …very good formation flight”

Even Klass could have read this and seen this was not a person who thought he had seen something no different than stars. Klass would have also been well aware of the recorded communication between the Copilot and air controller in which Tamefuji talks about the unidentified “traffic” flashing strobe lights that was positioned in front of the JAL 747.

Here is the complete FAA interview with Copilot Takanori Tamefuji.
http://russhaywood.com/wp-haywood/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tamefuji-Interview-JAL-1628.pdf

With regard to the Flight Engineer, Klass wrote:
“[Flight Engineer Yoshio Tsukuba] ‘was not sure whether the object was a UFO or not’’

Once again Klass zeros in on a single sentence while ignoring the rest of what the Flight Engineer said. While Tsukuba was not sure the object was a “UFO”, there was no question in his mind that he saw the formation move in front of the plane and it was like nothing he had seen before.

Comments Flight Engineer Tsukuba made during the Jan 15, 1987 FAA interview:

Describing the formations of lights that moved in front of the plane:
“The first time I saw it was through the L1 window, at the 11 o’clock position. It looked larger than navigation lights. I do not remember exactly how many of those (lights) were there but clusters of lights undulating.”

“The lights in front of us were clusters of lights like this. I think they were made of two parts. How should I say this, but the lights were shaped like windows of a passenger aircraft.”

When asked how long he saw the objects:
“The one in front of us, as I mentioned earlier, I saw it for about 10 minutes, then, the one on our left side at 9 o’clock, together, a total of 30 minutes. The lights in front of us and the other one were of two absolutely different nature of lights.”

When asked what he saw on the plane’s radar when Captain Terauchi asked him to check for the object to the left of the plane:
“Yes, a green dot like, not exactly like a dot. It was not a dot, but stream like, I think the range was about 10 miles. I do not think it (on the radar) was the same lights as the one I saw in front of us.”

Here is the complete FAA interview with Flight Engineer Yoshio Tsukuba.
http://russhaywood.com/wp-haywood/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tsukuba-Interview-JAL-1628.pdf

Dr. Bruce Maccabee’s report:
FLIGHT OF JAL1628

It should be remembered that in at least one other case Klass offered a witness (Steve Pierce) $10,000 to come out and say he was lying without any concern for whether the witness was actually lying (Pierce declined the offer).

Wow. Thanks for all the great, detailed info Sand. It'd be nice to know for real what exactly happened that night. I'm sure Klass has debunked plenty of mistaken identities/hoax cases. The problem with guys like him is his mind is already made up that UFO's do not exist. So even if one landed in his backyard he would come up with some mumbo jumbo about how it was really swamp gas or the Aurora lights.
 
I don't think it is much of a stretch to say little uttered by Phil Klass is straight truth. When it came to discussing UFO cases, debunkers deliberately look for anything to twist, just like lawyers in court. I mean the explanation Klass tried to sell for this case was ridiculous. Even if the case was crap his explanation was just stupid. I simply put zero stock in anything Phil Klass said because he'd long ago made his mind up. But further than that, I believe he was a government debunker along with Carl Sagan. I really do.
 
I don't think it is much of a stretch to say little uttered by Phil Klass is straight truth. When it came to discussing UFO cases, debunkers deliberately look for anything to twist, just like lawyers in court. I mean the explanation Klass tried to sell for this case was ridiculous. Even if the case was crap his explanation was just stupid. I simply put zero stock in anything Phil Klass said because he'd long ago made his mind up. But further than that, I believe he was a government debunker along with Carl Sagan. I really do.
In the one book I owned by Klass I read what he reported on Travis Walton. I'm not sure if you ever read it but he says they were behind on their state contract for logging. And the only way to get out of it was via an "act of God". Supposedly a few days prior the made for TV movie about Betty and Barney Hill aired on TV which he watched (The Interrupted Journey). Then all of a sudden the "Travis Walton Incident" took place. So Klass makes it a point to say Walton had very good reason to go missing via UFO.

I have to admit, once I heard that twist to the story and put some doubt in my mind. Seems like coincidental timing if what he says is accurate.
 
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I simply put zero stock in anything Phil Klass said because he'd long ago made his mind up. But further than that, I believe he was a government debunker along with Carl Sagan. I really do.
Carl Sagan was a government debunker? :confused: I've not heard that. He's not one of my favorite people so I am not one to make a stand about him, but it fits with my impression of him. The guy was OTT ego from the get-go.
 
Here is the complete FAA interview with Flight Engineer Yoshio Tsukuba.
http://russhaywood.com/wp-haywood/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tsukuba-Interview-JAL-1628.pdf

Thanks Sand. You were faster than me. I also intended to link up transcripts as soon I saw this :)
Here is also one relatively connected companion piece that I previously posted in another thread:
Audio clip from my unreleased interview with James Fox that happened back in 2011:
https://app.box.com/s/0l1wef3py9zc4f6fbo9mvoqh2vo52ro1
James actually hired private detective to track down Kenju Terauchi (also I have added bonus in the same audio regarding general Parviz Jafari).
 
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Wow. Thanks for all the great, detailed info Sand. It'd be nice to know for real what exactly happened that night. I'm sure Klass has debunked plenty of mistaken identities/hoax cases. The problem with guys like him is his mind is already made up that UFO's do not exist. So even if one landed in his backyard he would come up with some mumbo jumbo about how it was really swamp gas or the Aurora lights.

Hi Creepy. Regarding that here are additional companion pieces that you and others could find interesting :)

Audios, Videos, articles, newspaper clippings, wikipedia manipulation - A gold mine :) Enjoy :)

Audio compilation:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Video compilation:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Saunders' book:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
UFO Updates reactions:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Randle's blog:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Newspaper clipping:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Wikipedia change:
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate
Close Encounter with sleeping Klass
The Great Ecker-Klass Debate

Ecker-Klass debate - audio:

Kevin Randle's compilation:
A Different Perspective: Philip Klass and His Letter Writing Campaigns

Bob Jacobs' chronology and correspondence with Klass:
UFO Report

The Klass letter was also discussed on Strange Days Indeed by Dolan
and Friedman: - episode 361:
SDI - 2005
 
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It should be remembered that in at least one other case Klass offered a witness (Steve Pierce) $10,000 to come out and say he was lying without any concern for whether the witness was actually lying (Pierce declined the offer).

Yes, I was the one that pointed that bombshell first few years ago. I posted relevant audio clipping to my internal mailing list of researchers as soon I discovered it and collegaues started to share it big time. Fire spread and it ended in blogosphere from all sides (Billy Cox, Randle, Sheaffer).

However, I do recognize that there could be different interpretations to that claim (Klass ET award) but the fact stays that Pierce claims it. Thanks Sand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yes, I was the one that pointed that bombshell first few years ago. I posted relevant audio clipping to my internal mailing list of researchers as soon I discovered it and collegaues started to share it big time. Fire spread and it ended in blogosphere from all sides (Billy Cox, Randle, Sheaffer).

However, I do recognize that there could be different interpretations to that claim (Klass ET award) but the fact stays that Pierce claims it. Thanks Sand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tried using the link under your avatar but it is not operable. Any other website to try? Thanks.
 
Yes, I was the one that pointed that bombshell first few years ago. I posted relevant audio clipping to my internal mailing list of researchers as soon I discovered it and collegaues started to share it big time. Fire spread and it ended in blogosphere from all sides (Billy Cox, Randle, Sheaffer).

Yes, I have since heard Pierce describe the Klass offer several times. Here he is talking about it on an Oct 2013 Martin Willis podcast starting at about the 33 minute mark.

As an interesting side note, at the beginning of this podcast is Don Schmitt talking about the “Roswell slides” and his intent for due diligence as of 2013.

68. Steve Pierce | Podcast UFO

And thanks for posting all of the Don Ecker-Klass debate and other links. They look like they will be fun to listen to and read. I’ve started the Kevin Randle article on Klass’s letter writing. It’s quite interesting.

As Creepy_Green_Light said, do you have another web site link?
 
Carl Sagan was a government debunker? :confused: I've not heard that. He's not one of my favorite people so I am not one to make a stand about him, but it fits with my impression of him. The guy was OTT ego from the get-go.[/QUOTE

@Tyger - what I said about Carl Sagan is totally my personal opinion, which is why you might never have heard of him being accused of such a position. Basically, such an intelligent man as Sagan, should at least look at available evidence before proclaiming things like 'there are no interesting and credible sightings.'
It's interesting to note that Sagan and Stanton Friedman were classmates but went on to have basically polar opposite views on UFOs. I know Stanton has looked at the data and I know Sagan looked at very little if any compared to Stanton.
 
@Goggs Mackay - you somehow deleted the bracket at the end of my text - at the end of the word 'quote' - so that is why your text is showing up as imbedded in my text. Care to fix? :)

I'd like to quote your text and give some reflections on what you said, but no-can-do the way the text stands. :cool:
 
There is some information posted on Robert Shaefer's blog (badufos) that the captain of the JAL 747 (Capt. Terauchi) was a "UFO repeater". Supposedly he had two other sightings and had a strong belief in UFO's, aliens, etc. And supposedly the copilot and flight engineer NEVER saw the walnut shaped craft that was 4 times larger than an aircraft carrier. They only saw lights which they said they could not differentiate between stars or another flying object.

Also, there are a couple other people (who are named) that were at the FAA meeting that say nobody ever said "this meeting never happened" as John Calhoun states.

What do you think? I find some of these other points interesting. In case you don't know what I'm referring to, here are two links below. The first is of the JAL case. The second is Shaefer's blog.

Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: JAL 1628: Capt. Terauchi's Marvellous "Spaceship"

I really don't accept the "strong beliefs" in UFOs as any form of invalidation. I have a strong belief , that all other things being equal, a heavier SUV will come off better in a collision with a small car. Does the fact of that belief mean that I can't be a reliable witness to a motor vehicle accident involving those two types of car?

That pilot was a trained observer. He made a statement as to what he saw, and refused to retract it, in the face of serious pressure from JAL, knowing that it would have consequences for his career.
 
I really don't accept the "strong beliefs" in UFOs as any form of invalidation. I have a strong belief , that all other things being equal, a heavier SUV will come off better in a collision with a small car. Does the fact of that belief mean that I can't be a reliable witness to a motor vehicle accident involving those two types of car?

That pilot was a trained observer. He made a statement as to what he saw, and refused to retract it, in the face of serious pressure from JAL, knowing that it would have consequences for his career.
I agree. However, you used a bad example. A SUV (regardless of the weight) is a real thing & everybody agree's on their existence. A "flying saucer" is not. It's the same thing as saying "Just because he saw a leprechaun 3 times prior to his last sighting, doesn't invalidate his claim." As soon as you change "SUV" to something that is not real (or not proven to be real) it changes how - the reaction from the reader changes.
 
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