North Korea threatens to wipe U.S. off the map

[ddd999]

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.
LINK

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[aNorthernSoul]

This whole situation totally seems like a play to me... like we are being duped, but unfortunately (for them) the public isn't panicking as expected. Sheesh, I feel like a "nutty conspiracy theorist" now but I just can't swallow this.

 

[Siani]

Just sounds like a load of posturing, bluster and hot air to me. North Korea has been making similar threats for decades. Okay, the country has a huge army, but by all accounts, much of its military hardware is pretty ancient, in many instances, obsolete, especially in relation to its navy and air force. It also has very few allies, especially since the Soviet Union broke up, and China began to focus on its economy and international relations. These threats are probably being issued to intimidate South Korea, which would, no doubt, have been subsumed by the North years ago, without the protection of the US.

 

[threed]

They have the warheads to nuke a city or two (in Hawaii, i.e. if their navigational circuits were correctly soldered). More problematic is if they sell them to a terrorist group (I mean, aside from themselves).

They do have a huge military establishment. But they don't have the budget to properly equip them all. So, some of them may have to fight in their underware (if they can provide their own). I don't know, wooden shovels might hurt if they hit you on the head with one.

The soviets liked big parades too. But, likewise, they never had the budget. You could tell by their kit. Uniforms were theatrical costumes, at best, that could never survive real combat. Assault rifles made out of sheet metal that rusted through if you sneezed on it. Bullets that as often blew up in your face... Insufficient depth of parts.

North Korea feels extremely desperate. No global trade. Fearful of participating lest their own citizens come to realize how screwed they are. And a ruling elite desperate to cling to power. Their hope had always been to invade the South and loot its prosperity. Now, I think, they may be trying to extort money from Obama.

 

[David Biedny]

Most North Koreans are starving to death. I don't think they directly pose much of a threat to us at this time. If they try to do something covert, I suspect that a nuke sub sitting right off their coast would reduce the entire country to a burnt-out glass soapdish.

dB

 

[ddd999]

I suspect that a nuke sub sitting right off their coast would reduce the entire country to a burnt-out glass soapdish.

Ouch! LoL

 

[truthseeker]

I suspect that this is nothing but a ploy to get more money out of US as has been done in the past. Once paid off, NK will keep quiet for a year or two before this shit starts all over again. I wish the US would show more balls, tell this despot to go fuck himself and shoot down any missile launched from NK.

 

[methshin]

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.
LINK

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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

N.K isn't in much of a position to be threatening anyone at this point in the game. Nukes to big to be fitted to missiles. Missiles too unreliable to fit nukes on.

They wouldn't even be able to reach the shores of America with their best technology (hawaii excluded). The aspirations of that sad little man are nothing more than pathetic. Fuck the NK Govt.

 

[Siani]

Most North Koreans are starving to death. I don't think they directly pose much of a threat to us at this time. If they try to do something covert, I suspect that a nuke sub sitting right off their coast would reduce the entire country to a burnt-out glass soapdish.

dB

Their healthcare system is also a catastrophe - they don't have enough drugs to treat even the most basic ailments, yet alone anything major. Heaven help the poor folks of that country should a major epidemic or natural disaster strike. Although we moan and complain about our Western governments, often with good reason, they're fantastic compared to regimes such as the North Korean one.

 

[cottonzway]

I do think this goes beyond the usual pandering NK does for aid. I think most people assume that is what is going on here. I would agree with that if their actions have not been so irrational over the past 6 months.

There actions looks to me as the leadership and military have entered into a delusional megalomania. ICBM tests, nuke tests, threatening war. This is much further and provocative then their usual rhetoric.

There is not a more brutal government in the entire world upon it’s on people then NK. When given aid the elites keep it for themselves or sell it for more arms. It’s a combination of truly wicked people and enslaved citizens. I feel awful for the citizens of NK. They have true lunatics in power who are pretty much asking to get destroyed once and for all.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

"...the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.
LINK

...

does that mean they are going after the Taliban-types who use mentally handicapped people to carry suicide bombs? in that case YAYYYYYY!!!

 

[Gareth]

Most North Koreans are starving to death. I don't think they directly pose much of a threat to us at this time. If they try to do something covert, I suspect that a nuke sub sitting right off their coast would reduce the entire country to a burnt-out glass soapdish.

dB

Is that a known fact or just common sense speculation?

I assume the latter.

 

[David Biedny]

Is that a known fact or just common sense speculation?

I assume the latter.

You assume correctly. I'd be willing to bet on it.

dB

 

[Schuyler]

I subscribe to an intelligence service (Statfor) which is kind of like a private CIA. I cannot republish their stuff, usually, because it violates their terms of service. But they feel North Korea is not suicidal and is just being bellicose. They see this as a test for Obama. If you judge this by the position of US forces, Obama is prepared. Whether he will turn the other cheek when the time comes is, of course, open to question. We could have another Jimmy Carter on our hands. On the other hand, Obama has to know this. He does not want to be a one-term President.

I tend to follow the movements of the US Navy pretty closely. I was a nuke in the Navy myself in the Vietnam era. My daughter spent six years in as an Arabic linguist after 9/11. I spent my career in a Navy town and worked for a spell at Subase Bangor on the Tridents. A lot of my buddies are retired Navy or shipyard workers. A lot of my co-workers have been Navy spouses. The biggest celebrations here are when a ship comes home from a six month deployment. The town's population increases by 5,000 overnight (and probably by a few more nine months later.) That's just the way it is.

Right now we have more firepower off the coast of North Korea than we do in the Middle East. We have two Carrier Strike Groups: The USS George Washington (CVN-73) and the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76), plus one Expeditionary Strike Group: USS Essex (LHD-2). ESG's are composed of a smallish aircraft carrier (circa 60,000 tons) and a bunch of Marines. Plus the John Stennis (CVN-74) is 'somewhere' in the Pacific and could probably get over there fairly quickly. Their rated speed of 35 knots is a bald faced lie. When they get to moving they throw a rooster tail higher than the flight deck. Nothing else in the fleet can keep up. Since they are nukes, they don't care about using fuel.

As I understand it, there are also quite a few 'lone wolf' deployments, such as the USS John S. McCain and other destroyers and cruisers equipped with the Aegis defense system. Japan also has destroyers with similiar integrated equipment floating all over the South China Sea. Who knows how many SSBNs are off the coast, but just one has 24 Trident missiles with 8 warheads each, so 192 hydrogen bombs, each five times bigger than Fat Man--and that's just on a single submarine and 14 are operational (Four of the original Tridents have been converted to cruise missile and SEAL team deployment).

Nobody talks about this much, but the US rules the world's oceans--just like Great Britain did in 1800. There are eleven operational nuclear carriers. China has one. The US is quite capable of blowing any missile Korea launches out of the sky. That system is operational. As one poster says, with a picture of one of the CVNs coming at you, '90,000 tons of American diplomacy,' 10 acres of soverign American territory (apiece) parked in International waters right outside your door.

That has its own bellicosity, which I quite realize, and some people don't care for it. I understand, but it is not the US that has threatened to destroy an entire country. Only N. Korea and Iran have been doing that. The point is that North Korea is not THAT stupid. If the Stennis shows up in the general area, that means three CSG's, and THAT means something is about to happen. The US NEVER puts three carriers in the same place unless it means business. Everybody else knows this, too. It's a kind of litmus test.

We're talking real politik here. I'll leave the judgment calls to others. I, too, wish the world were set up a different way. The best thing that could happen here is for the John Stennis to show up at its homeport of Bremerton, incapable of leaving unless there was a very high tide. That would mean the crisis was over. Even Stratfor screwed up here. Two weeks ago they said the Stennis was home. I wrote to them and said, 'No, it isn't. If it was home I'd know beause it has to sail within a couple miles of my house to get there.' Strafor has lost a carrier, and that has me worried.

The next scene in this play is for the McCain to intercept the North Korean ship loaded with weapons headed for Africa. UN sanctions allow it. We'll have to see if it happens.

 

[Gareth]

Right now we have more firepower off the coast of North Korea than we do in the Middle East. We have two Carrier Strike Groups: The USS George Washington (CVN-73) and the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76), plus one Expeditionary Strike Group: USS Essex (LHD-2). ESG's are composed of a smallish aircraft carrier (circa 60,000 tons) and a bunch of Marines. Plus the John Stennis (CVN-74) is 'somewhere' in the Pacific and could probably get over there fairly quickly. Their rated speed of 35 knots is a bald faced lie. When they get to moving they throw a rooster tail higher than the flight deck. Nothing else in the fleet can keep up. Since they are nukes, they don't care about using fuel.

That is insane.

Regarding this list/service you subscribe to... I assume they have have a history of accuracy, otherwise you wouldn't pay attention to it right?

 

[David Biedny]

Schuyler, that post is unreal. My hat is off to you, good sir.

dB

 

[methshin]

Lost an aircraft carrier? What do you mean by lost?

 

[Schuyler]

Regarding this list/service you subscribe to... I assume they have have a history of accuracy, otherwise you wouldn't pay attention to it right?

Well, everything is relative. They are certainly better than Debkafile, an Israeli source that once claimed there was a fleet of destroyers in the Indian Ocean that did not exist. They also tend to sensationalize though, frankly, I enjoy the non-American point of view. Had you asked this question three weeks ago I would have given Stratfor a qualified yes for accuracy, but after they misplaced the USS Stennis and said it was in home port when it wasn't, I have begun to question them. I will give them credit for not being partisan in their outlook. They have this theory that world events dictate what presidents can and will do, and that it doesn't matter which party is in power. This will be an interesting test of that theory (and they know it, too.)

In terms of the placement of the strike groups I mentioned above, I believe that to be accurate because it is corraborated by other sources, including the Navy Times, which also publishes a weekly map for comparison. The Stennis is now in the Gulf if Alaska, and that has also been corraborated by local news sources. The Washington is forward based in Yokosuka, Japan and is always hanging around there. The Reagan is in Singapore at the moment.

I don't think I mentioned this before, but each strike group, though it is centered on a carrier, has approximately ten ships. These include several Arleigh-Burke class destroyers, a cruiser (just a big destroyer), a supply ship, and a fast attack submarine. They sail in a formation designed to protect the carrier. They are completely tied together electronically. Their defense systems are designed to form an invsible bubble over the entire group. They can take out attacking Exocet-type missiles before they get in range and they can also take down satellites or, more to the point, ICBMs. With the supply ship for replenishment (which is the second biggest ship in the group) they are also completely self-contained. They can last 6-8 months under combat conditions and far longer if they are behaving themselves. Each destroyer, which is actually bigger than a WWII era cruiser, has 90 launch cells for cruise missiles. I don't know how many they actually have on board, but this means each strike group likely has over 500 at any given time.

The six strike groups based on the East Coast are all in Norfolk, Virginia. The five on the West Coast are more spread out. We have two in Puget Sound: The Lincoln is based in Everett because of the tide problem I mentioned last time. It otherwise would have been in Bremerton. There are two in San Diego and one in Japan. At any given time there are probably two or three carriers that are non-deployable because of maintenance. That leaves 8 or 9 that are combat ready.

 

[Schuyler]

Lost an aircraft carrier? What do you mean by lost?

I mean that Stratfor, a private firm, said it was in home port when it wasn't. It probably means some analyst made an assumption that he shouldn't have, or that he relied on 'intelligence' that was inaccurate. Given that Strafor prides itself on accuracy (and charges for it), this is a screw-up on their part. A couple of weeks before that they had the Stennis in the Far East when it was at Pearl Harbor, so this adds to my dis-ease. I told them about that, too, and they fixed it, but this last time they did not alter their map.

I'm no more plugged in than anyone else, it's just that the Stennis is 'our' carrier and everyone around here is aware, at least partially, of where she is or supposed to be, not that the Navy is telling. There are about 5,000 spouses aboard, lots of Mommys and Daddys. The whole town gets emotionally intense when the group is into something serious instead of just out 'cruisin' around' or off the shore conducting 'quals' (qualification exercises to certify readiness, which is 'easy time.')

 

[methshin]

I mean that Stratfor, a private firm, said it was in home port when it wasn't. It probably means some analyst made an assumption that he shouldn't have, or that he relied on 'intelligence' that was inaccurate. Given that Strafor prides itself on accuracy (and charges for it), this is a screw-up on their part. A couple of weeks before that they had the Stennis in the Far East when it was at Pearl Harbor, so this adds to my dis-ease. I told them about that, too, and they fixed it, but this last time they did not alter their map.

I'm no more plugged in than anyone else, it's just that the Stennis is 'our' carrier and everyone around here is aware, at least partially, of where she is or supposed to be, not that the Navy is telling. There are about 5,000 spouses aboard, lots of Mommys and Daddys. The whole town gets emotionally intense when the group is into something serious instead of just out 'cruisin' around' or off the shore conducting 'quals' (qualification exercises to certify readiness, which is 'easy time.')

even wikipedia says it's docked there. Madness I tells ya.