not a religious posting, but an anarchist posting

[Wade]

so in an attempt to see if there were any religions out there that did not adhere to a set of laws or tenets set by any ordained or self professed leaders or indeed have any leaders at all i tried a google search on "anarchanistic faiths" and got this.

Christian anarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it's a pretty interesting read regardless of your feelings (read : opinions) on faith or even religion... and had a few notable followers including henry david thoreau, leo tolstoy and charles erskine scott wood whose work i was familiar with (he wrote a series of satirical esssays on religion) at any rate a religous discussion is not the point of the thread so it's NOT a religious themed posting it's an anarchist themed posting

i never knew such a concept as christian anarchism existed so that means it's time to drag alice out again

 

[mike]

I once shared a house with an anarchist, not a concept i can subscribe to.

 

[stonehart]

Anarchism is not really a great idea if applied to social and political systems as it would in my opinion break down into violent and brutal control by those that seek power over others. Yes our current democratic systems are damaged if not broken but at least I do not have mobs banging at my door asking for protection money...

Irony I am doing my Tax return as I type this lol... speaking of protection money.

 

[nameless]

fricking church of the later day sainters.

 

[nameless]

Christian Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if you put christian in front of stuff you can get some crazy stuff going on.
Here are some I am copywriting;
Church of Christian Muslims
Final day Christian Satanists
Union of Christian Baby Sitters and Judaeo House Sitters
Christian Marvel Universe
Christian Fried Chicken
Christian Jihad

 

[Wade]

I once shared a house with an anarchist, not a concept i can subscribe to.

We don't need no stinkin' badges

 

[Wade]

It probably goes without saying that some structure is needed in any civilized society, the big bugaboo is knowing when to stop because there is a point where everything gets too bloated and burdensome giving the A crowd reason to say " see...we told you"

Some smart thinker out there must have given thought to this and proposed an ideal sized community that is reasonably well run and efficient but I suppose that's only part of the equation. I suppose it's even more important who's doing the leading and who's doing the following...which reminds me of my next thread and a word that is popping up more and more on my radar, tribalism

 

[stonehart]

It probably goes without saying that some structure is needed in any civilized society, the big bugaboo is knowing when to stop because there is a point where everything gets to bloated and burdensome giving the A crowd reason to say " see...we told you"

Some smart thinker out there must have given thought to this and proposed an ideal sized community that is reasonably well ruin and efficient but I suppose that's only part of the equation. I suppose it's even more important who's doing the leading and who's doing the following...which reminds me of my next thread and a word that is popping up more and more on my radar, tribalism

Yeah man the Nanny State is where it leads in the end. It really gets on my wick when I am bombarded with "drinking is bad, smoking is bad, and blah blah is bad and blah blah blah blah"!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

The problem is how much control on your personal choices should any government have, well the simple answer is as little as possible.
Regulations on personal health choices and sexual orientation should not and never be an area where a government has a say.

Privacy is a given and the government has no right to intrude in anyway unless there is good documented reason as to why they need to do so.

Now I could go on and on about this but I will not.

"A government should fear its people, not the people fear the government"

 

[stonehart]

The tribal idea is not a bad one at all.
Small communities working together for the common good of all those involved and connected by a network of other communities to form a cohesive whole is a masterful idea.
Humans have lived in similar fashion for thousands of years and it is a system that works, in our modern age we have lost this sad to say and there is a dislocation between the common people. (divide and conquer)

Now more than ever we need to communicate and build a society that returns us to values that serve the common good of the average person and I believe that with the technology available to us now we could make it far better than it has ever been.

The problems we face however are large but to name a few:

Most people are unaware that there is a problem at all if they are comfortable and economic and social problems do not affect them then the system is working for them (they are not many) so they will see very little need to change. Many are just drones taking what they see is reality from TV and the talking heads on it, others are just happy to have the latest shiny thing and will walk over as many others as possible. Lower education has compounded to make a society of functioning illiterates who think the government has their best interests.
There is a very rich 1% that wish to keep things as they are for it benefits them the most to keep the current order of things.

This is a very rough overview of things for I could write a whole blog on it, but if people open their eyes it is easy to see that the system we live in now, is if not dead, then on serious life support. We can only keep a system built on the idea of infinite growth going so long on a finite planet.

 

[Jaxx Noamon]

You know the international anarchist rally was cancelled right? They just couldn't get it all organized in time. LOL! funny.

Ok let's see what principles can be applied to a community of like minded folks.
Individual needs:
1.) Food
2.) Shelter
3.) Heat
4.) Protection (from predators, maybe others peeps)
5.) Some form of learning/education
6.) Diversions... Fun... Games... Sports or Xbox, whatever
7.) Probably clothing
8.) Tools, technology
9.) Bath, Shower, a way to clean up
Community needs:
1.) Food
2.) Shelter
3.) Heat
4.) Protection (from predators, maybe others peeps)
5.) Some form of learning/education
6.) Diversions... Fun... Games... Sports or Xbox, whatever
7.) Probably clothing
8.) Tools, technology
9.) sanitation
9.) Rules

So we see that there are things needed that both the individual and the community share, we can refine this list as we get into the nitty gritty. But, most things needed by individuals are also needed by communities. In order for a community to prosper a certain level of socialism needs to apply, so how much socialism needs to apply? What do you do with those people who do not want to contribute? What do you do with those people who are unable to contribute? The only way that a community works is for everyone in the community to agree on what the goals are and how to achieve them. If you don't agree you go start your own community or you just go be on your own. The problem comes when the community evolves and the people in it are in disagreement as to how the community should function. The idea is for the big communities to be made up of many small ones so that any given community only minimally affects the larger community.

Something to ponder:
What is equality?
Does equality exist?
What is fair?
Does fairness exist?
What is responsibility?
Does responsibility exist?
What are individuals responsible for?
What are communities responsible for?

I eagerly await your replies.

 

[5tomidnite]

It probably goes without saying that some structure is needed in any civilized society, the big bugaboo is knowing when to stop because there is a point where everything gets too bloated and burdensome giving the A crowd reason to say " see...we told you"

Some smart thinker out there must have given thought to this and proposed an ideal sized community that is reasonably well run and efficient but I suppose that's only part of the equation. I suppose it's even more important who's doing the leading and who's doing the following...which reminds me of my next thread and a word that is popping up more and more on my radar, tribalism

My understanding is that the average person can deal with 150 relationships. I think it's called Dunbar's Number. Does that help?

 

[5tomidnite]

so in an attempt to see if there were any religions out there that did not adhere to a set of laws or tenets set by any ordained or self professed leaders or indeed have any leaders at all i tried a google search on "anarchanistic faiths" and got this.

Christian anarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it's a pretty interesting read regardless of your feelings (read : opinions) on faith or even religion... and had a few notable followers including henry david thoreau, leo tolstoy and charles erskine scott wood whose work i was familiar with (he wrote a series of satirical esssays on religion) at any rate a religous discussion is not the point of the thread so it's NOT a religious themed posting it's an anarchist themed posting

i never knew such a concept as christian anarchism existed so that means it's time to drag alice out again

I was raised Roman Catholic and went to a catholic school most of that time. Here's the thing that bothered me for not picking up on it early on. When we learned about the Apostle's and how they went to minister after Jesus ascended they made use of the Holy Spirit or Ghost what ever you call it. During those lessons they even went so far as to tell us that if you have the Holy Spirit you don't need anything else to know about God. The implication is that if you have the Holy Ghost you're as connected to God as anybody else is and you don't need the church or priests. Also it's actually my understanding that this concept goes back even into Jewish belief. You don't need Rabbis, Priests or whatever (the exceptions being prophets since God apparently hand picks them to speak on his behalf). It would seem or at least I inferred listening to a Jewish woman talking about the Ten Commandments that it's in fact blasphemous to assume you know what God is talking about in the first place.

The point being that according to Judeo-Christinan believes you don't need an organized religious structure.God or one of his messengers will let you know what you need to know. Also so yeah Christians Anarchist should technically be the norm.

 

[Wade]

Thanks for your posting, I was not brought up in that faith but I was aware of a hierarchy in catholicism that seemed paradoxical to my protestant upbringing BUT if God had commanded us to rest on the seventh day why did we observe the first day, my catholic and jewish friends went to mass temple on the seventh day and even has a kid I recognized these inconsistencies and I didn't last long in the fold after I got old enough to explore on my own which my mom questioned but never got in my way. So I looked around found almost all organized structured religions wanting and decided I would adhere to the golden rule and cherry pick my way through, but I do have to mention the word anarchist so I don't run afoul of my original posting thread title

 

[5tomidnite]

Thanks for your posting, I was not brought up in that faith but I was aware of a hierarchy in catholicism that seemed paradoxical to my protestant upbringing BUT if God had commanded us to rest on the seventh day why did we observe the first day, my catholic and jewish friends went to mass temple on the seventh day and even has a kid I recognized these inconsistencies and I didn't last long in the fold after I got old enough to explore on my own which my mom questioned but never got in my way. So I looked around found almost all organized structured religions wanting and decided I would adhere to the golden rule and cherry pick my way through, but I do have to mention the word anarchist so I don't run afoul of my original posting thread title

It's funny that you mention the sabbath day. I always found it ironic how priest led their parishioners in sin every week. Although Saturday is the actual sabbath (I never understood why it was changed) as far as the priest and the parishioners are concerned it was Sunday. So every Sunday all these good Christians got together and told God they didn't care to obey the sabbath rules. Although I suspect early Christians probably had masses on Sunday to start their week but probably kept Saturday as holy. I think over time people started preaching that Sunday was the actual sabbath. The same way they preach that people go to heaven when they die although it's clearly stated in the new testament that's not how it works. People wait in their gaves until judgement day comes before being resurrected on Earth wich has become the new heaven.

Sorry I rambled a little.

 

[nameless]

i think it was decision by a council to co-opt a pagan festival day.

 

[Wade]

My understanding is that the average person can deal with 150 relationships. I think it's called Dunbar's Number. Does that help?

that is a pretty cool factoid, I'll have to look at that but in a sense my question was probably more rhetorical in that over the years it seems that whenever some peer group, activity group, or organizing committee was set up to address certain issues or events (some of which I was involved in) I didn't take long to implode and in my opinion it has much to do with bringing even more people into the fold. How do you address that? Sure there is strength in numbers but the more numbers you bring in the more opportunity there is disputes that quickly bring things to a grinding halt. I dropped my sierra club membership in part for such reasons. Granted It only takes two to have a disagreement but I guess that's what I was alluding to was that I was wondering if some socialogist (?) Or urban planning specialist ever sat down and proposed an "ideal" organizational size or more to the point a commonality (?) that would be in place that could help smooth the waters in any dispute and it was in that vein I thought of a new thread about the "new" new world order, tribalism which sadly hasn't drawn as much interest as I would like to know if other people see that as a viable bond our even if they see evidence in of it in their daily experiences

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/tribalism-it’s-the-“other”-nwo-…because-we-all-have-to-bond.10834/

 

[5tomidnite]

i think it was decision by a council to co-opt a pagan festival day.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Jaxx Noamon]

Looking at the post I made earlier you will see the individual and the community were similar, one of the main differences is that in order to live in a community a set of rules must be applied. This way everyone understands what the community needs wants and tolerates. In order to get the rable to follwo rules someone has to be scary enough to put fear into someone so that they will follow the rules. (This is not true in community with a common opinion, but in deparate communities and communities that allow newcomers it helps a great to put fear of punishment into peeps so they will follow the rules. Along comes a guy who is bigger and meaner than the mean guy that enforces the rules... Now the leader seeks a new form of scary to keep people in line, sothey come up with a set of rules that are set up by something that can't be defeated... Your imagination. Scare your damn self into towing the line. And add some "Temple"punishments to make it real. I think you get the point. Religions don't create societies, societies and communities create religions. And Con-Men, liars, actors, writers, leaders, seekers of power and dreamers.

 

[Wade]

Looking at the post I made earlier you will see the individual and the community were similar, one of the main differences is that in order to live in a community a set of rules must be applied..

indeed you did and it got right past me

it helps a great to put fear of punishment into peeps so they will follow the rules. Along comes a guy who is bigger and meaner than the mean guy that enforces the rules... Now the leader seeks a new form of scary to keep people in line, sothey come up with a set of rules that are set up by something that can't be defeated... Your imagination. Scare your damn self into towing the line. And add some "Temple"punishments to make it real. I think you get the point. Religions don't create societies, societies and communities create religions. And Con-Men, liars, actors, writers, leaders, seekers of power and dreamers.

i was thinking of that very issue earlier in the day at work. You do need a big bad guy in charge and that in the past it came in the form of a dictator, emporer, warlord or tribal chief, in the western democratised countries one could probably argue that the early church was the big, bad scary guy and as the church lost it's political power and people came to realize they didn't have to fear the wrath of God for any trepasses it gave people more reason to put themselves before the greater good. A socialital laissez-faireism (?)

 

[mike]

Anarchism is not really a great idea if applied to social and political systems as it would in my opinion break down into violent and brutal control by those that seek power over others. Yes our current democratic systems are damaged if not broken but at least I do not have mobs banging at my door asking for protection money...

Irony I am doing my Tax return as I type this lol... speaking of protection money.

Taxation....... Your subscription to civilisation.