November 18th PMH Atwater

[Polterwurst]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I always enjoy Mrs Atwater's energy and positive attitude. That said, if you have never given NDEs much thought and are rather sceptical (like Gene obviously was), I think it would be better to look at the books and studies of the more „reluctant“ or conservative researchers first, who haven't had an NDE themselves and therefore maybe approach the subject with a more sceptical attitude. People like Bruce Greyson, Pim van Lommel etc. Strangely enough, many of those still come to the conclusion that there is something not-yet-explainable going on. Heightened consciousness during a time when the brain should hardly "generate" consciousness at all (as the materialist model goes) , life-changing experiences when the brain's ability to experience anything should be minimal, that's something that can't be easily explained. After looking at their studies and cases and if that has made you consider the possibility that there is something going on, then - IMO - you should go on to look at Ms Atwater's books, to get – well „the rest of the story“. Not to sound offending here, I personally think that she's done solid research and helped and inspired lots of people.

I had already heard of the case of Dr Rodania, the russian dissident who was „killed“ by the KGB and seemingly lay dead for three days. Here are two youtube vids in which he related the story himself.

The other extreme case, Walter Russell, I hadn't heard of either. Astoundingly, because he seems to have been quite well-known in his time. Which he obviously was far ahead of. I found a lot of vids and pages about him, a prominent one was even german. It seems that Walter Cronkite once called him the „Leonardo Da Vinci of our time“ and that Nicola Tesla thought his story about how he came to his knowledge was true. Here are a few websites to start with:

Walter Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Walter Russell's Philosophy

Now, Dr Rodania's experience occured in Soviet Russia in the 70s, their medical facilities were probably not too well equipped, and he was a non-entity for the people in power, so maybe the doctors didn't look as closely as they should have.

About Walter Russell's actual experience I could find nothing more than that it must have occured around the year 1921 and lasted for alleged 39 days.

I guess it's not unthinkable that in both cases there was a medical mistake, that they were maybe comatose or catatonic and wrongly declared dead.
So probably no „resurrection“ there or any miracle other that they were damn lucky to survive.

 

[Artyom]

I'm still listening the show and already have some thoughts and feelings to share.

As I'm listening to her I can hear a person who found her answer on a question - why do i live and what important can / should i do in life in a hard life situation. Therefore I look at her research and almost religious believe in people's testimonials. This is absolutely not about denying importance of her research, we need to look at such immortal question such as what happens after we die. But I do think that science should be the way to seek the answer. We need young open minded scientists to crack this question.

It's most likely I'm not going to live long enough to witness the answer as it's one of the toughest calls for us as human species.

I think we will get one step closer to figure out what is the thing that we call soul,for a lack of a better term, and what happens with it after death, as soon as we know for sure how the brain works and how to replicate it artificially. Again - it will just a one step closer, we may find out that our brain is what ancient Indians believed - a kind of remote control for a mind to control a body.

Perhaps mind indeed is physically located in a different place as the brain it's connected with, if 'a place' is an applicable term for a mind.


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[nameless]

Seriously brilliant run of guests for The Big P. Nice to have some NDE stuff to mix it up a bit keep things interesting.
What an interesting and thought provoking guest! Not having read the literature around this but just going on the show I have some problems. Apart from the obvious stuff about being dead and coming back to life, I have to question PMH's honesty and objectivity particulalry in front loading and not acknowledging at least the effects of the subconscious personality in colouring personal experiences, religious, near death, LSD or otherwise.

Her words;
"Now I was familiar with angel's voices, guides and guardians and all this kind of thing long before I died..um but this wasn't that kind of voice."

ok, thats pretty esoteric subject matter to be trifling in long before the road to damascus moment(s). I think theres a lot of stuff PMH was dabbling long before the reboots and not even considering or entertaining these ideas as having an effect on the imagination and her Id taints any kind of professional or scientific objectivity and bias checks. The Jesus stuff is again absolutely nonsense and completely ridiculous to be adamant about.

There is definitely a ufo contactee element to this where people will invent or "experience" an amazing action that verifies and makes people notice their opinion.

The idea of "listen to my important statements about life" runs throughout this.

 

[wwkirk]

Another great guest! Keep up the good work guys.

 

[Polterwurst]

Not having read the literature around this but just going on the show I have some problems. Apart from the obvious stuff about being dead and coming back to life, I have to question PMH's honesty and objectivity particulalry in front loading and not acknowledging at least the effects of the subconscious personality in colouring personal experiences, religious, near death, LSD or otherwise.

Bit of a contradiction there, I think. How can you know, if you haven't read her books and just from this short interview that she doesn't actually consider or acknowledge these effects?

The Jesus stuff is again absolutely nonsense and completely ridiculous to be adamant about.

Well, yeah, the reddish-blonde Jesus seems rather silly and (like the angel voice) shows that there is a religious motivation here but at the same time she says that it's different figures or "avatars" in other cultures and religions. I guess that is why most fanatically religious people don't like NDEs at all and don't acknowledge them. Btw., to anyone who considers starting yet another religious dispute because of this quote: don't.

The idea of "listen to my important statements about life" runs throughout this.

If you had had an experience that convinced you that consciousness survives bodily death, wouldn't you want to tell people? I wouldn't call that self-importance. Rather something like altruism.

 

[nameless]

Bit of a contradiction there, I think. How can you know, if you haven't read her books and just from this short interview that she doesn't actually consider or acknowledge these effects?

I dont, thats why I said "just from this interview", and based on this, I probably won't read any of her books.

, yeah, the reddish-blonde Jesus seems rather silly and (like the angel voice) shows that there is a religious motivation here but at the same time she says that it's different figures or "avatars" in other cultures and religions. I guess that is why most fanatically religious people don't like NDEs at all and don't acknowledge them. Btw., to anyone who considers starting yet another religious dispute because of this quote: don't.

On the contrary, fanatically religious people love NDEs because it proves for them an afterlife and supernal artisan figure or religious purposeful spiritual instruction and motivation based on an ethereal entity that takes a religious form. Bit of a contradiction there I think.

you had had an experience that convinced you that consciousness survives bodily death, wouldn't you want to tell people? I wouldn't call that self-importance. Rather something like altruism.

No I would call it jumping the gun, presumption and personal opinion based on an personally interpreted experience filtered through religious belief/ideas and symbolism which propagates a false idea of an unproven afterlife and moral social purpose that underlines a philosophical and moral naivety. To masquerade peoples personal anecdotes as data to back up your own personal religious views isn't scientific research. I think therefore Jesus does not cut it with me. To call it altruism is again ridiculous.

 

[exo_doc]

It was an interesting show.
I've read Dr. Raymond Moody and Dannion Brinkley among other NDE books and articles, plus I've watched documentaries about NDE.
I find my self on the edge of obsession with what happens after our brains shut down. I don't think I've ever had an NDE even though my heart stopped on the operating table when I was having back surgery (the damn anesthesiologist over drugged me) several years ago. I don't remember a thing ...only going to sleep and waking up in recovery with a chest that hurt like hell.
I was clinically dead for several minutes while they did chest compressions and defibrillated me, yet all I experienced was nothing.
Does that mean I have no soul?

I have a fantastically vivid dreamscape that sometimes feels just as real as this ...ummm...reality. And sometimes it seems I've been gone for a long time when I was only dreaming over night. Is that what some people mean by out-of-body experience?

 

[Polterwurst]

I dont, thats why I said "just from this interview"

Sorry, my mistake. The old problem quoting people out of context.

On the contrary, fanatically religious people love NDEs because it proves for them an afterlife and supernal artisan figure or religious purposeful spiritual instruction and motivation based on an ethereal entity that takes a religious form. Bit of a contradiction there I think.

Not really. Last I heard was that in catholicism, for example, NDEs are not acknowledged. Someone even said that they are probably sent by satan to "muddy up the water" for the true believers. If anything about religious figures coming up in NDEs of people all over the world is true (I personally think they are just interpretations), it would mean that religion doesn't count at all, because everyone is going to "be saved" not just the ones with the "right religion". You can't tell me that religious fanatics are going to like that idea.

No I would call it jumping the gun, presumption and personal opinion based on an personally interpreted experience filtered through religious belief/ideas and symbolism which propagates a false idea of an unproven afterlife and moral social purpose that underlines a philosophical and moral naivety. To masquerade peoples personal anecdotes as data to back up your own personal religious views isn't scientific research. I think therefore Jesus does not cut it with me. To call it altruism is again ridiculous.

He doesn't with me either. And I don't really like the religious motivation. But I just don't think she's just backin up her own beliefs, as you say. Again, she did mention that other cultures have their own "greeter figures".

I was clinically dead for several minutes while they did chest compressions and defibrillated me, yet all I experienced was nothing.
Does that mean I have no soul?

It means that you belong to the two thirds majority. There was a study with cardiac arrest patients that estimated the percentage of NDEs versus "nothing at all" at 33 %. The question I'd ask is "if the NDE is only an escapist mechanism of the brain, to keep us from being afraid or feeling pain or whatever, why doesn't it occur every time or at least much more often?"

 

[Artyom]

I was only off for like 10-15 minutes while surgeons were performing an operation. Of course it wasn't NDE and so I had better chances to see DeCaprio and his team than Morgan Freeman sitting on a branch in an completely white room and texting something on his, again - white iPhone 5 back on Earth -

I found suspicious her reaction on Chris's question about following up with people she interviewed previously. I believe Chris meant just that - check out if those people were indeed going through important tasks performing or rather mundane daily routine. It did sound for me as - don't doubt the way I did and do my job, it's kind of lack of openness.


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[DavidRavenMoon]

Can anyone find any info on Walter Russell’s NDE? I sure can't, except saying it happened “in 1921” and it doesn't saw he died.

Walter Russell Book Store | Spiritual Dowsing & the Blessing Process with Joey Korn | Dowsers.com with Celtic Sea Salt and Walter Russell Books

“Walter Russell went into ‘full illumination’ for 39 days and nights in 1921. In that time he ‘saw’ and understood how the universe was created. About 30,000 words came through him during that time, which he considered to be Divine revelation (and so do I). Those words are revealed in The Message of the Divine Iliad. Russell spent the rest of his life revealing the insights he received during those 39 days. Walter Russell also wrote The Secret of Light, which evolves his philosophy into the Russell science.”

If that had happened, being that it’s astounding, I would think there would be a mention of it somewhere. The only mention I can find of this on line is from Atwater herself, or in reference to Atwater.

So it doesn't sound like he had an NDE at all, and certainly not for 39 days.

 

[Polterwurst]

Sorry, I can't find anything substantial either. I just watched an "introduction" to Russell by a german scientist (!) who said something along the lines that it was kind of a big visionary epiphany during which he was not totally gone but could actually respond to his environment. I guess during 39 days there could have been more than enough occasions for an NDE, if he was severly injured, sick or very afraid (which sometimes seems to be enough to trigger them, too), but all in all that doesn't sound as if he was clinically dead at some point. But even so, the theories he developped are quite fascinating and he seems to really have anticipated things like the holographic universe theory, dark matter etc., things whicht I had thought were only "conceived of" much later.

But now for something completely different... if Chris reads this (I guess Gene won't really have much time for this): is there an explanation for the background voice at 2:23:15, saying or rather calling something like "the streets of...". No, I don't think it's an EVP (it's much too clear for that), I'm just curious. It made me jump a little because at exactly that time PMH was relating a rather creepy story in which someone (kinda like in spirit form I guess) was yelling something. Probably just a ringtone of somebody's cellphone or something.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

He probably had 39 days of information downloading to his brain. That had to be intense.

I'd also like to mention, and this is no disrespect to Ms. Atwater, but Gene, you shouldn't use the title “doctor”. She has an honorary degree (Doctor of Humane Letters) and most Universities say that honorary graduates may use the approved post-nominal letters, in this case LHD. But it is is not customary for recipients of an honorary doctorate to adopt the prefix “Dr”.

 

[Artyom]

Can anyone find any info on Walter Russell’s NDE? I sure can't, except saying it happened “in 1921” and it doesn't saw he died.

I thought it was just me who couldn't find that it was actually the case. I'm afraid we may hit the brick wall with any authentic information about what actually happened with Walter Russell.

Here is what Wiki says: Walter Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm aware of the fact that Wiki isn't perfect in a sense that it has only accurate information but as you can see some parts of it require citations. In particular the paragraph that claims that he studied physics. Yes - studying Physics isn't required to be a smart, intelligent person but if it claims he had there has to be an information to back it up.

Another thing is that his bio shows introduction of religion early in this life. Btw this is something that concerns me personally since my wife's mother is a religious person and wife herself is somewhat a religious person. And so when our daughter was born from the very early point I took a position that she won't be heavily introduced to religion in a toddler age as she won't be able to make conscious decisions. I am against teaching a child religion as brushing teeth and such.



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