Phoenix Lights are back

[Aaron LeClair]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/p...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

"PHOENIX -- Mysterious lights appeared Tuesday night, south of the Valley. At around 8PM, SkyFox saw the lights south of Phoenix, the second time that mysterious lights appeared near Phoenix in the last 10 years. Nearly 10 years ago, many people witnessed a similar sighting, that came to be known as the "Phoenix Lights". SkyFox's Rick Crabbs has more... "


Looks like flares to me again. Unfortunately the actual ufo of March 13th 1997 isn't dealt with much. There was a craft seen before, and video taped. This was NOT the same as the commonly shown flare clips.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/p...n=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

"PHOENIX -- Mysterious lights appeared Tuesday night, south of the Valley. At around 8PM, SkyFox saw the lights south of Phoenix, the second time that mysterious lights appeared near Phoenix in the last 10 years. Nearly 10 years ago, many people witnessed a similar sighting, that came to be known as the "Phoenix Lights". SkyFox's Rick Crabbs has more... "


Looks like flares to me again. Unfortunately the actual ufo of March 13th 1997 isn't dealt with much. There was a craft seen before, and video taped. This was NOT the same as the commonly shown flare clips.

The local NBC outlet, Channel 12, also said flares.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I was surprised and a bit disappointed to hear Peter Davenport speak about the Phoenix lights being one of the most impressive cases last he was on. The main videos that were shown has been identified by many as flares. Of course, Jim Dilletoso thinks they're ufos, but his track record is horrible in terms of credibility and integrity.

There's more to the Phoenix case than just the flare vids, but when most people hear him speak about the Phoenix lights, they will think that is what he is referring too, and perhaps hold that against him.

 

[Farside]

so has any one started to looked at the video to see if they are flares, this is kind of cool becasue i just pick up "the phoenix lights" by lynne d. kitei, M.D. i was going to study the phoenix light in depth.8) what dose this say for the lother light seen, that is if there not flares or something like planes or stars or somthing.

what can we do now that that we did not do in 1997?

i seen some thing, if you look in right conner, there is a nother light. is that a flare to. if there bombing run why dont we have more photos of them over the past 10 years? has the military made a statement? can we get video of military flare drops?

are the "flares" moving down or is that the aircraft filming it making it look like there are moving? i allso see 4 "flares" and one that blinks out and in faster then the others and the uper right hand conner has another light, it could be a aircraft but i dont know(needs to be looked at more)?

i wounder what people go on camra's and other devies?

they could be flares.

p.s. sorry about the other post.

 

[Farside]

what can we do now that that we did not do in 1997?

 

[The Hawk]

The Phoenix Lights were not flares anyone who claims otherwise is lacking credibility or hasn't studied the case enough. I've read plenty of skeptics of it and their arguments fail terribly. The Air force even staged an example to try and reproduce the phoenix lights and failed miserably to produce anything slightly like what was described. They are unknown; period. It's impossible flares traveled over 60-100 miles at a level hight in an identifiable line that does not match the wind currents of the day. Some of the orbs also clearly moved in an intelligently controlled manner. All witnesses interviewed out of many thousand say that flares do not match what they saw and the lights were much larger than flares.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

what can we do now that that we did not do in 1997?

Nothing needs to be done as far as I'm concerned. Except maybe inquire more as to the nature of the military exercise.

Ignoring Dillettoso is always good to do unless you want to make a hall of shame.

 

[Farside]

The Phoenix Lights were not flares anyone who claims otherwise is lacking credibility or hasn't studied the case enough. I've read plenty of skeptics of it and their arguments fail terribly. The Air force even staged an example to try and reproduce the phoenix lights and failed miserably to produce anything slightly like what was described. They are unknown; period. It's impossible flares traveled over 60-100 miles at a level hight in an identifiable line that does not match the wind currents of the day. Some of the orbs also clearly moved in an intelligently controlled manner. All witnesses interviewed out of many thousand say that flares do not match what they saw and the lights were much larger than flares.

are talking about the new lights that have been seen.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The Phoenix Lights were not flares anyone who claims otherwise is lacking credibility or hasn't studied the case enough.

How do you know how credible I am, and how much work I've done?

Have you done more work on it than Bruce Maccabee? Are you more credible and qualified? How so?

Dr. Bruce Maccabee Research Website

Now if someone says that the initial ufo vid is flares, that is another matter. The flares apply to the light array.

Also check ufoupdates where a lot of ufologist discuss the Phoenix lights. All those people that think they are flares aren't credible and haven't done enough work compared to you?

I'll have to relook into things, but I think MUFON has data on flares being dropped as a decoy to avert attention away from the other ufo case that happened a little earlier than the light array. I left MUFON years ago and this is from memory.

 

[The Hawk]

Ok maybe "credible" isn't the right word. I'll go with "reasonable". It's not reasonable to match witness descriptions with flares especially those who were directly under the craft when it passed overhead. Mr. Maccabee seems to completely discount the hundreds of witnesses who saw it pass overhead and not miles away near a military base.

"This 55 mile baseline established conclusively that the J14 lights were some 70 miles from Phoenix and at altitudes between 15,000 and 20,000 ft."

The sighting occured over a few hours not 4 to 5 minutes.

"Any particular light was seen for between 4 and 5 minutes which is consistent with the lifetime of the extremely bright LUU-2 type illumination flares (2 million candlepower). Hence it makes some sense to assume they were lights related to Air Force activities and, in fact, the Air Force stated that there had been flares dropped at a rather high altitude during the annual Air National Guard "Operation Snowbird.""

Thirdly operation "Snowbird".
SNOWBIRD!
That's a laughable name and anyone who's studied UFO history in depth should know why. I find it kind of them that they named it that. It sorta says hey this is a cover, sorry bout that ufo community. Their lines were jammed, military bases aren't PR conglomerates. I don't blame them for putting out the flare story, they were being bugged and bugged for an explanation by people for months.

 

[Farside]

Ok maybe "credible" isn't the right word. I'll go with "reasonable". It's not reasonable to match witness descriptions with flares especially those who were directly under the craft when it passed overhead. Mr. Maccabee seems to completely discount the hundreds of witnesses who saw it pass overhead and not miles away near a military base.

"This 55 mile baseline established conclusively that the J14 lights were some 70 miles from Phoenix and at altitudes between 15,000 and 20,000 ft."

The sighting occured over a few hours not 4 to 5 minutes.

"Any particular light was seen for between 4 and 5 minutes which is consistent with the lifetime of the extremely bright LUU-2 type illumination flares (2 million candlepower). Hence it makes some sense to assume they were lights related to Air Force activities and, in fact, the Air Force stated that there had been flares dropped at a rather high altitude during the annual Air National Guard "Operation Snowbird.""

Thirdly operation "Snowbird".
SNOWBIRD!
That's a laughable name and anyone who's studied UFO history in depth should know why. I find it kind of them that they named it that. It sorta says hey this is a cover, sorry bout that ufo community. Their lines were jammed, military bases aren't PR conglomerates. I don't blame them for putting out the flare story, they were being bugged and bugged for an explanation by people for months.

Operation "snowbird", you call it fake but do you have the doc's form the operation or will the military let read them? Proof. i mean. if you dont go and do the lag work and think every thing that the news says is wrong and doing cover up ops should do a little more checking into. not every thing is a cover up. Investigation is a good thing and knowing how to apply it, science is not the end all be all in investigation.

 

[The Hawk]

Sorry I'm a bit clueless on what your trying to say.
I gather English is not your first language?
Your saying something about condemning snowbird without looking into the evidence of it?
I'm merely pointing out that Operation Snowbird doesn't match most-to-all witness descriptions of the Phoenix Lights in placement, color, size. The explanation came out 5 months after the sighting and "Snowbird" is a funny choice of names; even if it is just some twisted coincidence that it was named a MJ12 code word for covering up actual UFO sightings with aircraft or other means. (or the name of a particular ARV test flight depending on the source (nothing seemingly reputible))
That isn't the name they called it later as a joke, that's the name period. So one has to either give into the idea that they forged the documents at a later date after the Phoenix Lights sighting or it was a funny, huge coincidence that the flare drop operation of March, 13 1997 was in fact named "Snowbird".

 

[Farside]

Sorry I'm a bit clueless on what your trying to say.
I gather English is not your first language?
Your saying something about condemning snowbird without looking into the evidence of it?
I'm merely pointing out that Operation Snowbird doesn't match most-to-all witness descriptions of the Phoenix Lights in placement, color, size. The explanation came out 5 months after the sighting and "Snowbird" is a funny choice of names; even if it is just some twisted coincidence that it was named a MJ12 code word for covering up actual UFO sightings with aircraft or other means. (or the name of a particular ARV test flight depending on the source (nothing seemingly reputible))
That isn't the name they called it later as a joke, that's the name period. So one has to either give into the idea that they forged the documents at a later date after the Phoenix Lights sighting or it was a funny, huge coincidence that the flare drop operation of March, 13 1997 was in fact named "Snowbird".

so i ask you one more time, are you talking about the 1997 lights or the lights that where seen like a week ago becuse that is what we are talking about?

 

[The Hawk]

1997 read the discussion A.LeClair mentioned Davenport talking about the Phoenix Lights of 1997. And I responded to the subject of the originals. The latest sighting was more than likely military everything fits to it being military. I question motives.. The timing close to the 10 year anniversary purposefully orchestrated in a V formation with parachute flares seems questionable.

Correction on my earlier post the 5 months was the amount of time for them to release any documents it was 2 months before they came out with the explanation. Some disinformaton on the internet says "a few days" this is absolutely false. The sighting was on March 13th the explanation was announced for the first time May 10th a document presenting the name of the operation and whatnot was presented May 11th.

 

[Paranormalfreak101]

I am facinated by the Phoenix lights incident. I have always wondered if each light was one individual UFO, or if all the lights were just one giant craft. (Which would be very frightening to know that extraterrestrials were that close to the city of Phoenix.) Its a pretty interesting case. Keep in touch!