Re: This is why the U.S. is screwed...

[Bent Faith]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

Thanks for putting this up on Paracast TV where nobody can respond to it, David.

https://www.theparacast.com/forum/this-why-u-s-screwed-t5143.html

But, the "clueless" lady was right and O'Donnell was wrong about what Obama has stated. Facts are facts.

I am not necessarily agreeing with her views (as you will see below), it is just that I like the record straight on who is right and wrong when statements are made, that's all.


I want (and need) reform, like we all do. I could write a whole thread myself on the problems with the way things work now and what I would like to see.

Whether coached or not, people need to ask questions about such a large undertaking. Eliminating private insurance, even if inadvertently, is a major concern.

Mind you, I said a concern. I am still (quite honestly) not totally convinced that a single payer system is all bad.

Think about this -- one of the biggest concerns that these protesters have is that 'some gubmint bureaucrat is going to make decisions on what kind of health care you can receive'.

Well, hell, right now the way the system is with private insurance, these same decisions are being made by a person in front of a computer with a script on what to allow/disallow who has had 40 hours of training. These are the people overriding doctor's advice. That is bullshit -- it has happened to me several times.

Now, these people will next say that that is only to see if the insurance company will pay for it. You can go to a doctor and pay for it yourself, pay cash and get a discount, and not allow the insurance company to interfere. Ok yeah. If people had that much money they would not need insurance.

But, I submit that under a single payer system it would be the same way. Ok, so the 'gubmint' won't pay for your desired treatment. My contention is that there will be plenty of doctors that will take your money and give you the treatment you want, without government intervention. So, how is that different?

I am mostly conservative, but I have very different views on this, and here is why. To me, letting health care depend on profit motivation (as it is now, with private insurance companies and doctors and such), is kind of like running the police, fire, water department, all on a profit basis. There is something just inherently wrong with that. Your house is burning, but the fire department would incur a loss going to your house, so they don't. That is the premise behind insurance companies denying claims, denying coverage (pre-existing conditions), and overriding doctor's advice.

A complicated issue to be sure.

Now, when people don't like private insurance practices, what is their option? Get another insurance company, right? Oh, no, not if you have pre-existing conditions or your employer does not offer another. You are stuck.

In a public option, people have the ballot box. The people that run the system will ultimately either be elected or appointed by elected officials. So, the people do have a say, even if indirectly.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[David Biedny]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

The woman in question, a baby machine lacking a single bit of knowledge about the country of which she is a citizen, was correct about a single point she brought up. Meanwhile, she is completely ignorant regarding the Constitution, the foreign policy of her country during her entire lifetime, her household's income, existing social support institutions, and just about anything not directly concerning her materialistic lifestyle and her procreation activities. She's a mindless drone, a good consumer and God-fearing troglodyte.

Like I said, she's a great example of why the U.S. is screwed.

But I do indeed appreciate the points you bring up in your post, and largely agree with them. I'm no fan of Obama or the Democrats - I'm a firm believer that the American experiment has largely failed the middle class and poor and that the future history of this country is likely to involve a slow, dark slide into a financial disaster that was started long before Obama, either Bush or Clinton. Party politics is a distraction. IMO, the entire history of human civilization has always been about class, everything else is a diversion and device for manipulation of popular opinion and sentiment.

dB

 

[Bent Faith]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

David,

Maybe I should have said so in my post - the lady really was embarrassing. But, I was trying to focus on the big deal that O'Donnell said about 'never saying that' and all -- he was equally unprepared for that.

I find your points about class and how the American experiment has failed the middle class and all to be fascinating. I tend to agree. For many years, it was great to be here. Walk out of high school (or not) find a factory, get a job, set for life.

Now, those jobs are gone (in the name of increasing profit and shareholder value - moving factories overseas). The high-tech jobs are being offshored - I am a recent victim of that. Backoffice jobs (accounting, medical, etc...) are also being offshored.

So, now we all are going to either be in retail, healthcare, or work for the government. The middle class is gone, and we will become a country of rich people that own overseas corporations, and the rest of us working for peanuts because all the high paying jobs were 'too expensive' to stay here.

Damndest thing is, most companies would still make a nice profit paying people here to do all the work. But, they want MORE profit, so they send jobs overseas. Greed is indeed killing this country.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

Don't forget who was president when Michael Douglas used the phrase "greed is good" in the movie "Wall Street."

 

[methshin]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

I think the worst part about this whole situation is that the drug and insurance companies are funding all these ads that spread misinformation about the topic at hand, to confuse said troglodytes because the corporations know they're too fuckin' thick and stupid to do any sort of fact checking. What's even worse is they are allowed to do this.

I live in Canada, where the Govt. runs health care, and seeing all these reactions and commercials truly shows how paranoid people can be when they lack the capacity to figure out anything for themselves. I'm perfectly healthy, if I had to undergo knee surgery or something like that, I'd have to wait a few months, however, if I was in an emergency situation, I'd be at the front of the line for medical service.

I don't know why people see a connection between bank account size and health care. I may not be rich, but I deserve to live as much as anybody else.

The USA already spends more on health care than any other country, yet somehow, still manages to allow large portions of the populace to be unable to afford healthcare.

But hey, I guess more f-22's are more important.

 

[skunkape]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

Don't forget who was president when Michael Douglas used the phrase "greed is good" in the movie "Wall Street."

I hear Stone is working on a sequel. A lot has changed in 20 years.

As far as that dopey broad goes, I am very familiar with her type. The deep South is full of 'em. I wonder if she had the phrase "systematic dismantling" in her vocabulary before she heard it from that ass-hat, Glen Beck. The sooner they all get Raptured away the better.
The health-care system in this country is a shameful, greed-driven mess. My girlfriend has twice had to have tumors removed from her brain. Because she is uninsurable, doctors did nothing for her until she was nearly dead. There are more tumors in there, but because of the cost of MRI, routine check ups on her condition are unaffordable.
The last two times I needed a doctor, once for broken ribs and bleeding internal injuries, the other time after being beaten so badly I was blind in one eye for months, I just didn't even bother with a hospital. I patched my own leaks, bought some illegal pain-killers, and hoped for the best.
I have no faith that Washington will do anything to improve the situation. Those guys are all in it for themselves.
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[methshin]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

I hear Stone is working on a sequel. A lot has changed in 20 years.

As far as that dopey broad goes, I am very familiar with her type. The deep South is full of 'em. I wonder if she had the phrase "systematic dismantling" in her vocabulary before she heard it from that ass-hat, Glen Beck. The sooner they all get Raptured away the better.
The health-care system in this country is a shameful, greed-driven mess. My girlfriend has twice had to have tumors removed from her brain. Because she is uninsurable, doctors did nothing for her until she was nearly dead. There are more tumors in there, but because of the cost of MRI, routine check ups on her condition are unaffordable.
The last two times I needed a doctor, once for broken ribs and bleeding internal injuries, the other time after being beaten so badly I was blind in one eye for months, I just didn't even bother with a hospital. I patched my own leaks, bought some illegal pain-killers, and hoped for the best.
I have no faith that Washington will do anything to improve the situation. Those guys are all in it for themselves.
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I still to this day don't understand why normal people hate on socialized based programs. I mean, don't you see that these are put in place to help you? And sure, you might not need it now, but who's to say you won't in ten years.

I could never live in your country, too many sheep that spend their days watching the foxes. Really hope that the reformation of your health care system makes things easier on you and yours skunk.

 

[Poi]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

There's is no reason not to use the Medicare system in place and working well now. Should be easy enough except that Pharma and Insurance wouldn't get enough of the stake.

Looks to me like they're just trying to give us Medicare without the cap in costs. In fact, the emphasis for less care is switched from the (former) poor to the elderly. Hardly a fair proposal.

If we're paying taxes to insure the stupid, everyone's fair game? I think not, but that lady will never *get it.*

 

[skunkape]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

This is why the world is screwed if the guys with the nukes in Pakistan have the brains of this cretin.

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[DrLogic]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

I still to this day don't understand why normal people hate on socialized based programs. I mean, don't you see that these are put in place to help you? And sure, you might not need it now, but who's to say you won't in ten years.

I could never live in your country, too many sheep that spend their days watching the foxes. Really hope that the reformation of your health care system makes things easier on you and yours skunk.

I think there are some good arguments against socialism, the main one for me being that it can be a notorious breeding ground for mediocrity.

Unfortunately, to look at everything as a black and white issue (or red and blue in the case of the UK & US) only persists in undermining the discussion, something that both parties in a two party system love to do and are very good at.

As all us mortals know, real life works in many shades of grey. For example the Labour government in the UK, an unmitigated failure because they believe socialism is panacea for everything. In the same way that the opposition would have been a failure due to their different, but equally narrow minded tunnel vision. In reality everything should be decided on its own merit.

Being an observer in this discussion, I won’t pretend to understand how the health system works in the US, but I do know insurance inside out. Most of the discussion against a national insurance appears to be misinformation, especially in regards to using the UK system as an example.

Having always lived with a national system, personally I wouldn’t want to change to a private only system. I've rarely visited the doctor, so talking about my contributions helping those who can’t afford to contribute/unable to work is an obvious argument. But what I really like about it is helping those that don’t know what’s good for them. There are whole strata of issues that I wouldn’t dare dictate to people what is or isn’t good for them, but keeping in good health isn’t one of them.

Unfortunately there are far too many people that are frankly too bloody daft to look after themselves, I reckon the US system is something we can all aspire to when, as a race, we are mature enough to not mistreat it, until then I think private insurance shows a bit too much idealism (if I may be so bold).

 

[Kieran]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

Ok i am not connected with American politics in any way, but the video those show up the women in a bad light. The response's given, do show a lack of understanding of her own background. The husband seem's to look after everything, surely she got some idea of of her familys finances, she seemed very confused to what war was going on and how long it was going on.If you going to have a conversation on a public airway, a least have some knowledge to your own background and the Argument you are trying to make. Socialism is not a bad thing, the problems happen when you try to prevent freedom for the people under the flag of socialism as others communists countrys have.Equality for all is so wrong?

 

[Ezechiel]

This is why the U.S. is screwed...

Party politics is a distraction. IMO, the entire history of human civilization has always been about class, everything else is a diversion and device for manipulation of popular opinion and sentiment.

True... but your population can't be made up of leaders only. The U.S. gives everybody the opportunity to make it to the leaders class although the economics might not be the same for everybody.

IMHO, the U.S. is screwed if it stops to innovate and set higher bars for itself. Obama is investing heavily in education, you'll easily reap the benefits in 10/20 years. It should fix some of the setbacks from the born-again Bush years