Reformed Fortune Teller

[Angel of Ioren]

Here's a link to today's episode of Penn Point where Penn reads a letter from a fortune teller that stopped scamming people after she watched his show. Well worth watching to learn why people like Penn and Teller do what they do in terms of "debunking" things.

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[Kandinsky]

I hope the guys have that effect on some people.

Some of these 'psychics' are amongst the lowest form of human life and I'd expect it to be one of the oldest con-games in our history. No doubt, thousands of years ago assholes found a niche way to make a living and have built on the format and techniques ever since. Is 'emotional parasite' to strong a term for some of their activities?

Gotta say though, I hate the two-camera 'dynamic' of Penn Point...clunky.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I don't mind it since it's only for a few minutes. Sometimes it's three cameras when he's got the hand held one too.

 

[ward]

P&T are fun and all that but something about Amazing Randi just isn't right. Besides being really a true believer that nothing, absolutely nothing "paranormal" exists because it cant be replicated on cue, Whitley Streiber recalled having received a cassette in the mail where Randi was recorded over the telephone speaking to male children about the size of his penis, according to Whitley it was some kind of police sting but he didn't go into details. That story always freaked me out.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Anybody who thinks psychics and card readers and all that are legit have their belief-compass mis-calibrated. I have seen some individuals who did appear to have some insight that wasn't "normal", but not a single one of them took money or tried to use their "abilities" as a profession. They were normal-living people who seemed highly intuitive...more so than a "cold reader". Still, P&T are awesome, and the fact that they inspired this person to stop a life of fraud and mis-guidance shows that their show and their message has an effect.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Anybody who thinks psychics and card readers and all that are legit have their belief-compass mis-calibrated. I have seen some individuals who did appear to have some insight that wasn't "normal", but not a single one of them took money or tried to use their "abilities" as a profession. They were normal-living people who seemed highly intuitive...more so than a "cold reader". Still, P&T are awesome, and the fact that they inspired this person to stop a life of fraud and mis-guidance shows that their show and their message has an effect.

The first two sentences are kind of contradictory. Especially if you are intimating that taking money for a reading makes you a fraud. I have seen psychics who have charged money and were quite accurate, well above the normal expectation for chance. I have also met ones who were absolutely way off the mark and so far below the realms of chance to the point that nothing they said was correct.
Simply put, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Just as there are good GP's or bad GP's, good psychologists, bad psychologists. And just because you charge money for something, a service if you will, doesn't make it a bad thing. What matters is your integrity as a reader or whether you are deliberately ripping people off or not. The ones who are deliberately and knowingly ripping people off deserve to be exposed and condemned, I agree. .
I do agree with you, somewhat, about taking money for readings, in a way. I did readings for a number of years and i found that the most fulfilling times were when i started doing them for free.
Being psychic is nothing special. Every single one of us is psychic even if you don' believe in it.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

P&T are fun and all that but something about Amazing Randi just isn't right. Besides being really a true believer that nothing, absolutely nothing "paranormal" exists because it cant be replicated on cue, Whitley Streiber recalled having received a cassette in the mail where Randi was recorded over the telephone speaking to male children about the size of his penis, according to Whitley it was some kind of police sting but he didn't go into details. That story always freaked me out.

Yeah, that's old news and was proven to have been an attack on Randi. He works out in the open exposing frauds. Some will fight back and try to make him look bad.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

The first two sentences are kind of contradictory. Especially if you are intimating that taking money for a reading makes you a fraud. I have seen psychics who have charged money and were quite accurate, well above the normal expectation for chance. I have also met ones who were absolutely way off the mark and so far below the realms of chance to the point that nothing they said was correct.

It is contradictory, I agree, but it's how I solidly feel. Psychic phenomena itself appears contradictory, but like most things paranormal, just when people go around touting that it's fact, it fails to prove itself to be quite so factual. The psychic's that I've met who take your money and say they'll tell you exactly how it is are the one's that fail in all predictions or pre-cognition completely. In my experience the ones that tell you it's "for sure!" are the frauds, money taken or not.

Being psychic is nothing special. Every single one of us is psychic even if you don' believe in it.

I absolutely don't believe it. I DO believe in basic human intuition and mental assessment that may allow you to take an accurate 'prediction' of a situation based on rational thought and judgment. However this has nothing to do with what is called psychic phenomena even most 'psychics' will tell you otherwise. By nature psychic phenomena is based on a sixth-sense, input into the conscious mind that's from a source not of the five senses and not explained by inductive or deductive reasoning. Intuition and evaluation, and just-plain guess work, do not equate to physic ability, though, apparently, a LOT of people believe that it does, including people who claim to have psychic abilities.

 

[tyder001]

Jeff while I find you to be a very intelligent poster I'm afraid I can't go with ya here. I have had (on more than one occassion) knowledge from a dream and even a vision on one occassion where I did "know" without any real physical assistance about events. Now, I can't call it up on cue and I'm not a fortune teller. But, as I've said time and time again it only takes "one" white crow to prove they are not all black. So, while I'm not going to my local physic for advice I cringe when I hear people make statements about something being possible or impossible that they have never experienced. I was raised in a very religious enviroment. My expereince in life (not a skeptic or a guru) led me to doubt and then finally to reject the "dogma" I was raised with. I also studied and earned a Degree and was around both athiest and religious folks. My expereince in life has shown me that reductionism is false.

Just sayin.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

I have a strong premonition every month: that by the end of it my bank account balance will be close to zero!

 

[tyder001]

I have a strong premonition every month: that by the end of it my bank account balance will be close to zero!

Wow, you to?

 

[The Pair of Cats]

It is contradictory, I agree, but it's how I solidly feel. Psychic phenomena itself appears contradictory, but like most things paranormal, just when people go around touting that it's fact, it fails to prove itself to be quite so factual. The psychic's that I've met who take your money and say they'll tell you exactly how it is are the one's that fail in all predictions or pre-cognition completely. In my experience the ones that tell you it's "for sure!" are the frauds, money taken or not.

Correct. Anyone who says "for sure" or "abslotutely correct" and are more concerned with taking your money are bad "psychics". Dealing in absolutes is fraught with trouble whether or not you are a "psychic" making a prediction or a "pundit" making sweeping observations about psychics or any paranormal subject. I mean no disrespect to you Jeff as i believe you have valid points to be made about psychics, ones that cannot be ignored. If i was to base my opinion on the bad psychics i met in my travels i may very well come to the same conclusions as you. But i have met one or two who were uncannily accurate.

I absolutely don't believe it. I DO believe in basic human intuition and mental assessment that may allow you to take an accurate 'prediction' of a situation based on rational thought and judgment. However this has nothing to do with what is called psychic phenomena even most 'psychics' will tell you otherwise. By nature psychic phenomena is based on a sixth-sense, input into the conscious mind that's from a source not of the five senses and not explained by inductive or deductive reasoning. Intuition and evaluation, and just-plain guess work, do not equate to physic ability, though, apparently, a LOT of people believe that it does, including people who claim to have psychic abilities.

The problem is that the word psychic is portrayed as something otherworldly, when it is not. The word "psychic" means -of the mind, mental. To be psychic is as mundane and normal as waking up in the morning. There's nothing special about it. In my practice as a psychic there was no 6th sense, no special powers of divination, just the same effort that was put into my day to day battles with life like deciding which way to go to work today. The fact that many people want psychics or psychic ability to be special and magical cause them, i believe, to be attracted to the ones who promise them exactly want they want to hear. People really don't need to go to psychics for help or anything else. They could use their own innate abilities of discernment and reasoning and all of the other innate abilities that we are all born with to work out their problems. Instead some place this responsibility in the hands of psychics, some place it in the hands of their GP or their psychologists or psychiatrists.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

The problem is that the word psychic is portrayed as something otherworldly, when it is not. The word "psychic" means -of the mind, mental. To be psychic is as mundane and normal as waking up in the morning. There's nothing special about it. In my practice as a psychic there was no 6th sense, no special powers of divination, just the same effort that was put into my day to day battles with life like deciding which way to go to work today. The fact that many people want psychics or psychic ability to be special and magical cause them, i believe, to be attracted to the ones who promise them exactly want they want to hear. People really don't need to go to psychics for help or anything else. They could use their own innate abilities of discernment and reasoning and all of the other innate abilities that we are all born with to work out their problems. Instead some place this responsibility in the hands of psychics, some place it in the hands of their GP or their psychologists or psychiatrists.

Unfortunately, even though that's how you think of the word, most people hear psychic and think magic. If someone tells you that they can predict the future, they are lying. I use my intuition to see through fortune teller garbage.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Unfortunately, even though that's how you think of the word, most people hear psychic and think magic. If someone tells you that they can predict the future, they are lying. I use my intuition to see through fortune teller garbage.

Yes unfortunately most are satisfied with hearing what they want to hear whether they believe in the subject or not . The fact that these same people have preconceived ideas about psychics, for better or for worse, just shows ignorance of not only what the word means but of what the processes are. And it's not magical or special. No way near it. It's normal. Even you are psychic Angelo. If you use your intuition for any reason and it helps you then you are already as good as any psychic that you are likely to meet. It is an ability everyone is born with and is inherent to both genders.

As much as you would like to put a stop to the Sylvia Browns et al of this world because they are "conning" the people you will never stop it happening. People all over the world fall for scams of different kinds every day, whether they be psychics, Nigerian Lotto scams, ponzi schemes on wall street or whatever. It's just human nature. People want to be scammed, i can't think of any other way of putting it.

Not all psychics are frauds by definition. As i said, to be an absolutist on this subject is fraught with as much danger as saying that the sky will fall tomorrow, well mainly over your house lol

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Jeff while I find you to be a very intelligent poster I'm afraid I can't go with ya here. I have had (on more than one occassion) knowledge from a dream and even a vision on one occassion where I did "know" without any real physical assistance about events. Now, I can't call it up on cue and I'm not a fortune teller. But, as I've said time and time again it only takes "one" white crow to prove they are not all black. So, while I'm not going to my local physic for advice I cringe when I hear people make statements about something being possible or impossible that they have never experienced. I was raised in a very religious enviroment. My expereince in life (not a skeptic or a guru) led me to doubt and then finally to reject the "dogma" I was raised with. I also studied and earned a Degree and was around both athiest and religious folks. My expereince in life has shown me that reductionism is false.

Just sayin.

Tyder, it's okay if we agree to disagree and I'm very fine with that, however I think I do need to clarify my position somewhat. I've heard that psychic ability (abilities and experiences based on psi, a parapsychological term) described as an ability that people possess to nth degree. Some people have it, others don't.

A supporting anecdote; my mom took up piano lessons at the age of 56 but after 3 years of trying to play she could never play well...ever. Don't tell her I typed this but she was always very bad at playing even though she tried very hard for long hours. Of course we know that there are prodigies that play the piano very well, without a single lesson. I view psychic ability along those same lines; some people are naturally born with it and others, well...not. Like any prodigy in a skill or talent, however, I believe that those who possess psychic ability are extremely rare and may even go through their lives without ever discovering or recognizing their abilities.

Yes, it's true that I do believe some, very rare, people possess psychic ability, and do receive input from extrasensory perception of their surroundings, but like the cumulative reports of UFO phenomena, (of which 3 to 5% remain unexplained after thorough scrutiny), I believe that approximately 3 to 5% of people claiming to have psychic abilities actually have psychic abilities. All the rest, including the grand majority of those that make their living via psychic....stuff.... are working off of luck, cold readings, or down-right fraud. I also stick to my statement that there are people out there who don't have a stitch of psychic ability, and most likely never will, myself included in that. Then again, tyder, I do respect your opinion that all of us human beings may have such an ability, I'm just not holding my breath until I develop my "inner psychic."

Peace.

 

[tyder001]

I know what you mean and I can certainly understand. I have an old friend who has always tried really hard to play the guitar. He loves it and can talk the jargon. But, once he tries to play it's painful. He just can't play. However, he can draw and paint. I on the other hand seemed quite natural (to a limited extent) on the guitar but I couldn't draw a stick figure without messing it up.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Now who sung that song Fortune Teller?